One bike to do it all--So which one then ?
Discussion
Silver993tt said:
moto_traxport said:
Buy a car. My £2k car will kick your £10k bike's arse every time on the above trip.
So your form of bike enjoyment is different to mine? Yes, that happens in life, people enjoy different things in different ways, it's what makes it interesting. You're not into long journesy by bike, I am, in fact it's 95% of my biking, I assume it's the reverse for you.Looking back on your bikes: You are not slowly distilling the essence of what makes a fine bike, you are just getting older!!
Silver993tt said:
Killboy said:
I'm struggling to see what it cant do. Maybe I'm missing what you suggesting.
Here's a suggestion, have you for example, been on a 2000-3000km trip over 10-14 days, covered 800 motorway/autobahn kms in a day, half of it in pouring rain, loaded with luggage? The following days hit the Alpine roads (still with luggage) and covering another 3-400kms per day, maybe some heavy rain here and there? Then let's see, another 500kms on the motorway/autobahn to the next destination? Then repeat a few times. After all this still feeling relatively fresh? What about chain maintenance during the trip, maybe take along a huge spanner to undo the rear nut to make a few adjustments? What about chain lube, need some of that aswell?If you sad about lubing a chain, your choice is somewhat limited. But then you looking at BMWs, and I'd suggest you stick to tarmac then, nullifying the "do it all" requirement.
moto_traxport said:
Nope. I've got a 98 R1 (a bike you used to own when you were younger). Every year it goes to Europe with half a dozen mates on precisely the sort of trip you describe. You then bought a ZX12 which is nice, then a ZZR1400 and now a Crosstourer.
Looking back on your bikes: You are not slowly distilling the essence of what makes a fine bike, you are just getting older!!
Well, I wouldn't call myself old and for the last few years I've been doing off roading in Sardinia & Elba. Maybe I'm just openmineded enough to realise that certain bikes are better designed for certain purposes, some better at several things than others. Looking back on your bikes: You are not slowly distilling the essence of what makes a fine bike, you are just getting older!!
Touring Europe on an R1? Hmmmm....ill fitting throw overs/tail packs with an assortment of bungees? Facing the tarmac all the way and then with a sore neck/back? Sure can be done but there are much, much better ways of doing that. Nice bike the R1, I had an original 1998 model. Was fantastic as a day bike but certainly not for touring. Would love another one for sunny days for a few hours in the hills.
Killboy said:
Lol. Mate, I'm from SA. We've done double those distances in half the number of days, with 70% of it on gravel. On all sorts of bikes. The 1190 will be the most comfy of them I've ever ridden.
If you sad about lubing a chain, your choice is somewhat limited. But then you looking at BMWs, and I'd suggest you stick to tarmac then, nullifying the "do it all" requirement.
Yes, you must be superman, well done If you sad about lubing a chain, your choice is somewhat limited. But then you looking at BMWs, and I'd suggest you stick to tarmac then, nullifying the "do it all" requirement.
Silver993tt said:
A German colleague had one in my group last year and we did a similar schedule. Was a nice bike but comfortwise he suffered quite badly, was a combination of seat and vibration. Other bikes in the group were BMW GS, K1300S and Honda CT.
He also had to regularly (every 7-800kms) adjust/clean/lube the chain and had to carry around a huge spanner for the rear wheel nut to do this. He sold it now and bought a new BMW GS1200. I had a go was nice to ride but I only had it for about 100km.
See this is where I feel your unbridled adherence to the Crosstourer being the best bike is somewhat biased and you will conjour up any number of excuses to bolster your assertion. He also had to regularly (every 7-800kms) adjust/clean/lube the chain and had to carry around a huge spanner for the rear wheel nut to do this. He sold it now and bought a new BMW GS1200. I had a go was nice to ride but I only had it for about 100km.
So firstly your colleague having to carry a a huge spanner to adjust the chain. Now I fully understand you're a fan of the shaft drive but I must ask, why didn't he use the one supplied in the ktm toolkit?? Works perfectly well from my experience. But then I've only had the wheels out a few times mounting or fixing tyres in the bush.
As for the stretching of the chain. Again, I'm amazed as my bike, now in 13k has required minimal chain maintenance, despite carrying fully loaded 35 and 45 litre panniers and top box as well as tank bag and dry back. And using it in full power mode. And if you check on the ADV riders forum, its not something people are complaining about?
As for comfort, I think its fair to say everyone is different. What I find comfy you may consider a device for toture, so I wouldn't take great stock by that.
You mentioned vibration, yet again, not something anyone seems to complain about given the mechanics of the engine, being a 75 degree twin with balancers.
But lets look at some impirical numbers shall we?
Weight Honda. 275kg KTM 230kg FULLY FUELLED
Power Honda 127 bhp KTM 150 BHP
Economy Honda 16.1 km/litre KTM 19 km/litre ( my actual economy figures fully panniered although if careful I can coax 450kms from a tank)
Fuel capacity Honda 21.5 litre tank KTM 23 litre
So we can see the Honda looses quite a few rounds to the KTM.
Honda has the DCT box, KTM has the Motorcycle Stability Control System. KTM also has many power, abs and traction control modes, not sure if the Honda has the equivalent.
So the point is, what is the best bike for YOU may not be the same for all. For example the Hondas weight, economy and lack of range eliminated it from my list. I aslo needed a bike I could run on crappy fuel and the KTM permits this with a dongle to alter the timing.
So we can see, in my case, the Honda is far from the best DO IT ALL bike. Sort of scuppers your assertions that its the best, no?
Is the KTM the best DO IT ALL BIKE however? Nope, theres a few things I could kick KTM about. But in the balance it proved to be the best of the bunch. In fact, I think its an impossible question.
I think you're missing what Allan asked and the fact that many are offering their opinions. You don't need to justify yours so vociferously.
Silver993tt said:
bass gt3 said:
So what you seem to say is any suggestions not in accordance with your particular garage is fine to be derided and sneered at. Perhaps the definition of DO IT ALL BIKE is slightly broader than your seemingly blinkered opinions.
Just because someone else can do a 4000km Alpine trip on an R1 without a sore back, in all kinds of rain, with hairpins up the ying yang and not feel inconvenienced about 2 minutes lubing their chain here and there doesn't mean they should be looked down upon.
Mastodon2 said:
I dunno like, you have been sneering on a bit. You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about sports bikes / riders who don't do 4000km Alpine trips / anyone who doesn't agree with your choice of the perfect "do it all" bike.
Just because someone else can do a 4000km Alpine trip on an R1 without a sore back, in all kinds of rain, with hairpins up the ying yang and not feel inconvenienced about 2 minutes lubing their chain here and there doesn't mean they should be looked down upon.
no problem with sports bikes at all, I've owned them in the past but the discussion is about a bike that can do-it-all or as close as possible in reality. A sports bike is probably the furthest from that aim just like a KTM 640lc is at the other extreme of do-it-allness.Just because someone else can do a 4000km Alpine trip on an R1 without a sore back, in all kinds of rain, with hairpins up the ying yang and not feel inconvenienced about 2 minutes lubing their chain here and there doesn't mean they should be looked down upon.
If a difference of opinion seems like a chip on a shoulder to you then I can't change that. Everyone has different experience I have mine you have yours.
bass gt3 said:
See this is where I feel your unbridled adherence to the Crosstourer being the best bike is somewhat biased and you will conjour up any number of excuses to bolster your assertion.
So firstly your colleague having to carry a a huge spanner to adjust the chain. Now I fully understand you're a fan of the shaft drive but I must ask, why didn't he use the one supplied in the ktm toolkit?? Works perfectly well from my experience. But then I've only had the wheels out a few times mounting or fixing tyres in the bush.
As for the stretching of the chain. Again, I'm amazed as my bike, now in 13k has required minimal chain maintenance, despite carrying fully loaded 35 and 45 litre panniers and top box as well as tank bag and dry back. And using it in full power mode. And if you check on the ADV riders forum, its not something people are complaining about?
As for comfort, I think its fair to say everyone is different. What I find comfy you may consider a device for toture, so I wouldn't take great stock by that.
You mentioned vibration, yet again, not something anyone seems to complain about given the mechanics of the engine, being a 75 degree twin with balancers.
But lets look at some impirical numbers shall we?
Weight Honda. 275kg KTM 230kg FULLY FUELLED
Power Honda 127 bhp KTM 150 BHP
Economy Honda 16.1 km/litre KTM 19 km/litre ( my actual economy figures fully panniered although if careful I can coax 450kms from a tank)
Fuel capacity Honda 21.5 litre tank KTM 23 litre
So we can see the Honda looses quite a few rounds to the KTM.
Honda has the DCT box, KTM has the Motorcycle Stability Control System. KTM also has many power, abs and traction control modes, not sure if the Honda has the equivalent.
So the point is, what is the best bike for YOU may not be the same for all. For example the Hondas weight, economy and lack of range eliminated it from my list. I aslo needed a bike I could run on crappy fuel and the KTM permits this with a dongle to alter the timing.
So we can see, in my case, the Honda is far from the best DO IT ALL bike. Sort of scuppers your assertions that its the best, no?
Is the KTM the best DO IT ALL BIKE however? Nope, theres a few things I could kick KTM about. But in the balance it proved to be the best of the bunch. In fact, I think its an impossible question.
I think you're missing what Allan asked and the fact that many are offering their opinions. You don't need to justify yours so vociferously.
The bike I have is the best all rounder for me and my comments are based on my experience with a range of bikes. Sure you can have you opinion (where mine was derided several times). So firstly your colleague having to carry a a huge spanner to adjust the chain. Now I fully understand you're a fan of the shaft drive but I must ask, why didn't he use the one supplied in the ktm toolkit?? Works perfectly well from my experience. But then I've only had the wheels out a few times mounting or fixing tyres in the bush.
As for the stretching of the chain. Again, I'm amazed as my bike, now in 13k has required minimal chain maintenance, despite carrying fully loaded 35 and 45 litre panniers and top box as well as tank bag and dry back. And using it in full power mode. And if you check on the ADV riders forum, its not something people are complaining about?
As for comfort, I think its fair to say everyone is different. What I find comfy you may consider a device for toture, so I wouldn't take great stock by that.
You mentioned vibration, yet again, not something anyone seems to complain about given the mechanics of the engine, being a 75 degree twin with balancers.
But lets look at some impirical numbers shall we?
Weight Honda. 275kg KTM 230kg FULLY FUELLED
Power Honda 127 bhp KTM 150 BHP
Economy Honda 16.1 km/litre KTM 19 km/litre ( my actual economy figures fully panniered although if careful I can coax 450kms from a tank)
Fuel capacity Honda 21.5 litre tank KTM 23 litre
So we can see the Honda looses quite a few rounds to the KTM.
Honda has the DCT box, KTM has the Motorcycle Stability Control System. KTM also has many power, abs and traction control modes, not sure if the Honda has the equivalent.
So the point is, what is the best bike for YOU may not be the same for all. For example the Hondas weight, economy and lack of range eliminated it from my list. I aslo needed a bike I could run on crappy fuel and the KTM permits this with a dongle to alter the timing.
So we can see, in my case, the Honda is far from the best DO IT ALL bike. Sort of scuppers your assertions that its the best, no?
Is the KTM the best DO IT ALL BIKE however? Nope, theres a few things I could kick KTM about. But in the balance it proved to be the best of the bunch. In fact, I think its an impossible question.
I think you're missing what Allan asked and the fact that many are offering their opinions. You don't need to justify yours so vociferously.
The problem with these threads is always the same, some comes on with a different opinion that isn't the 'party line' and gets derided.
The only conclusion I can see is that all bikes are do-it-alls because everyone thinks what they own fits into that category, whether they've experienced others or not.
thatdude said:
If I could afford it, a multistrada would be for me. It's not just the bike I can't afford, it's the servicing (I would want to keep it serviced by an authorised ducati dealer, especially for valves and belts)
Otherwise I might have:
SV1000s with handlebars or raised clip-ons
My brother has an SV1000s that doesn't see much action these days, he keeps muttering about selling it and I know he's MOTing it on Friday, I can find out if he still wants it to go?Otherwise I might have:
SV1000s with handlebars or raised clip-ons
Silver993tt said:
The bike I have is the best all rounder for me and my comments are based on my experience with a range of bikes. Sure you can have you opinion (where mine was derided several times).
The problem with these threads is always the same, some comes on with a different opinion that isn't the 'party line' and gets derided.
The only conclusion I can see is that all bikes are do-it-alls because everyone thinks what they own fits into that category, whether they've experienced others or not.
And that's the point. It's the best bike for YOU. The problem with these threads is always the same, some comes on with a different opinion that isn't the 'party line' and gets derided.
The only conclusion I can see is that all bikes are do-it-alls because everyone thinks what they own fits into that category, whether they've experienced others or not.
No need to get defensive, it's a discussion.
Thanks
bass gt3 said:
And that's the point. It's the best bike for YOU.
No need to get defensive, it's a discussion.
Thanks
I've always stated in my experience. The problem is that many on here don't read the comments properly and get defensive ending up making personal snipes. It's been a big problem on PH and many other forums for years and it kills any kind of debate. The art of respecting other people's opinions is severely lacking on here.No need to get defensive, it's a discussion.
Thanks
Silver993tt said:
bass gt3 said:
And that's the point. It's the best bike for YOU.
No need to get defensive, it's a discussion.
Thanks
I've always stated in my experience. The problem is that many on here don't read the comments properly and get defensive ending up making personal snipes. It's been a big problem on PH and many other forums for years and it kills any kind of debate. The art of respecting other people's opinions is severely lacking on here.No need to get defensive, it's a discussion.
Thanks
Silver993tt said:
Killboy said:
Just bought a 1190 ADV R. I love it! 
It's not exactly a do-it-all bike though is it? It's in the thread title.Silver993tt said:
The bike I have is the best all rounder for me and my comments are based on my experience with a range of bikes. Sure you can have you opinion (where mine was derided several times).
The problem with these threads is always the same, some comes on with a different opinion that isn't the 'party line' and gets derided.
The only conclusion I can see is that all bikes are do-it-alls because everyone thinks what they own fits into that category, whether they've experienced others or not.
The way I see it is that I ride the bike I own to places I want to go and overcome whatever difficulties of weather, traffic, road surface or pain that is necessary in order to achieve it - and my mates do the same on their assorted Multistradas, VFR1200s, R1s, ZZR14s, GS12s, 'Blades, RSVs etc. etc. etc.The problem with these threads is always the same, some comes on with a different opinion that isn't the 'party line' and gets derided.
The only conclusion I can see is that all bikes are do-it-alls because everyone thinks what they own fits into that category, whether they've experienced others or not.
Some of them change their bikes from time to time as their tastes, pain levels or just plain whimsiness takes them and we all make our bikes do what we need them to do. So maybe the bike isn't the issue, it's the rider. I doubt many on here would believe the entertainment to be had from throwing a Pan Euro up/down Alpine passes but that's what I do because that's the tool I have to hand. I know I wouldn't get across a desert or a muddy field very well but then Charlie and Ewan didn't always do too well on that score either
ETA: I've riden the other guys' bikes and I can appreciate what each of them does very well, some obviously a lot better than a Pan but in some ways very much not so - I've never thought of any of them 'Wow, I must get me one of these'.
Edited by Wedg1e on Wednesday 23 April 18:13
Silver993tt said:
've always stated in my experience. The problem is that many on here don't read the comments properly and get defensive ending up making personal snipes. It's been a big problem on PH and many other forums for years and it kills any kind of debate. The art of respecting other people's opinions is severely lacking on here.
I might point you to your earlier post and say 'Touché'Killboy said:
How does the Honda Cross Tourer handle off road conditions? 
Well, I didn't buy the CT (with DCT) for off road as I don't do any of that on my tours but it has some capabilities see here, even a guy from SA is riding one (and rates it as the better bike) , comparing to the Triumph Exp:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMxUBtweMbY
This one in Japanese unfortunately but it shows the bike being ridden (with DCT box):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ils3FbgKyc
It's not the best for off road but the limiting factor will be the rider, not the bike in most cases.
Killboy said:
Silver993tt said:
bass gt3 said:
And that's the point. It's the best bike for YOU.
No need to get defensive, it's a discussion.
Thanks
I've always stated in my experience. The problem is that many on here don't read the comments properly and get defensive ending up making personal snipes. It's been a big problem on PH and many other forums for years and it kills any kind of debate. The art of respecting other people's opinions is severely lacking on here.No need to get defensive, it's a discussion.
Thanks
Silver993tt said:
Killboy said:
Just bought a 1190 ADV R. I love it!
It's not exactly a do-it-all bike though is it? It's in the thread title.Silver993tt said:
A German colleague had one in my group last year and we did a similar schedule. Was a nice bike but comfortwise he suffered quite badly, was a combination of seat and vibration.
Silver993tt said:
ell, I didn't buy the CT (with DCT) for off road as I don't do any of that on my tours but it has some capabilities see here, even a guy from SA is riding one (and rates it as the better bike) , comparing to the Triumph Exp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMxUBtweMbY
This one in Japanese unfortunately but it shows the bike being ridden (with DCT box):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ils3FbgKyc
It's not the best for off road but the limiting factor will be the rider, not the bike in most cases.
Thats Matt, know him very well. We had a coffee while he was shooting an episode at a friends shop while I was back recently. Nice guy and very capable rider. The guy riding the Honda is Clinton Seller, SA National Superbike Champion, and guess who he's tied in with????? Yep, Honda!!!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMxUBtweMbY
This one in Japanese unfortunately but it shows the bike being ridden (with DCT box):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ils3FbgKyc
It's not the best for off road but the limiting factor will be the rider, not the bike in most cases.
As for offroad, I think even Honda state it has no off road abilities, and at 275 plus panniers and fuel, I suspect it could be a bit much if it all goes south. But I agree, you bought it not needing off road capabilities.
But then what makes the best DO IT ALL bike?? Road only, on/off road? Allan needs to answer that one.
Edited by bass gt3 on Wednesday 23 April 18:28
bass gt3 said:
Thats Matt, know him very well. We had a coffee while he was shooting an episode at a friends shop while I was back recently. Nice guy and very capable rider.
As for offroad, I think even Honda state it has no off road abilities, and at 275 plus panniers and fuel, I suspect it could be a bit much if it all goes south. But I agree, you bought it not needing off road capabilities.
But then what makes the best DO IT ALL bike?? Road only, on/off road? Allan needs to answer that one.
As I said, it has off road capabilities like the GS but it's really down to the rider as seen on those clips and was in reply to this:As for offroad, I think even Honda state it has no off road abilities, and at 275 plus panniers and fuel, I suspect it could be a bit much if it all goes south. But I agree, you bought it not needing off road capabilities.
But then what makes the best DO IT ALL bike?? Road only, on/off road? Allan needs to answer that one.
Killboy said:
How does the Honda Cross Tourer handle off road conditions?
Of course it is never going to be anything like a Yamaha 250/400 in these conditions but it has capabilities as long as the rider has them also. Therefore it can do 'off-road' to a certain extent.Silver993tt said:
Here's a suggestion, have you for example, been on a 2000-3000km trip over 10-14 days, covered 800 motorway/autobahn kms in a day, half of it in pouring rain, loaded with luggage? The following days hit the Alpine roads (still with luggage) and covering another 3-400kms per day, maybe some heavy rain here and there? Then let's see, another 500kms on the motorway/autobahn to the next destination? Then repeat a few times. After all this still feeling relatively fresh? What about chain maintenance during the trip, maybe take along a huge spanner to undo the rear nut to make a few adjustments? What about chain lube, need some of that aswell?
last time I went touring abroad (2007) we had a 1999 Hybusa, a K5 1000 and a couple of Fireblades, we did the trip from Holland to the Nurburgring in one hit through torrential rain, when it wasn't raining we kept ourselves amused by pulling 100 + mph wheelies, roll ons in 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th gear the Hybusa was always last BTW.We did a fai9r few laps of the Ring and the surrounding roads then back home all without adjusting chains or oiling them.
(bikes generally have O ring chains)
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