MotoGP 2014 : Argentina ***Spoilers***
Discussion
Honda want Lorenzo, it's a great play. If they don't get him then Yamaha will have to pay him even more money to stay which takes away money from something else. If Honnda do get him they win that way. It's win/win for Honda.
Rossi won't go anywhere.
Brivio has said he'd like Pedrosa on the Suzuki. But if Lorenzo goes to Honda, then that berth at Yamaha may be more attractive for Pedrosa.
Vinales needs to win Moto2 to step I think probably, or at least be right there for a couple of seasons before getting the invite.
Rossi won't go anywhere.
Brivio has said he'd like Pedrosa on the Suzuki. But if Lorenzo goes to Honda, then that berth at Yamaha may be more attractive for Pedrosa.
Vinales needs to win Moto2 to step I think probably, or at least be right there for a couple of seasons before getting the invite.
Honda don't just want to win, they want to dominate.
Ideal therefore too have the 2 best riders in MGP in their team. They have been consistent in this year after year. They tried to nab Lorenzo last time, in fact Lorenzo sacked his last manager after he didn't tell him about Honda's improved offer.
Matt Oxley wrote a good piece on this on Superbike Planet I think, last month.
Ideal therefore too have the 2 best riders in MGP in their team. They have been consistent in this year after year. They tried to nab Lorenzo last time, in fact Lorenzo sacked his last manager after he didn't tell him about Honda's improved offer.
Matt Oxley wrote a good piece on this on Superbike Planet I think, last month.
Johno said:
Honda want Lorenzo, it's a great play. If they don't get him then Yamaha will have to pay him even more money to stay which takes away money from something else. If Honnda do get him they win that way. It's win/win for Honda.
Rossi won't go anywhere.
Brivio has said he'd like Pedrosa on the Suzuki. But if Lorenzo goes to Honda, then that berth at Yamaha may be more attractive for Pedrosa.
Vinales needs to win Moto2 to step I think probably, or at least be right there for a couple of seasons before getting the invite.
Your assuming lorenzo is prepared to spend another season on a bike which is no longer up to the job.Rossi won't go anywhere.
Brivio has said he'd like Pedrosa on the Suzuki. But if Lorenzo goes to Honda, then that berth at Yamaha may be more attractive for Pedrosa.
Vinales needs to win Moto2 to step I think probably, or at least be right there for a couple of seasons before getting the invite.
If he still has a hunger to be the best then he has to get a honda seat (and i still don't believe hrc will have him) so either he takes a pay cut and goes customer honda or takes the money/risk and gives the ducati a go just for a change.
Look at what iannone has been doing on the ducati, it's slowly getting there maybe lorenzo's smooth style
will suit it? although saying that i'd love to see giugliano alongside iannone, that would be a great team.
You say honda want the 2 best riders, this year they have the 2 best riders one wins and the other gets 2nd/3rd every single race , it seems even pedrossa has accepted his role probably to keep his seat for the next couple of years.
Edited by egor110 on Monday 28th April 09:38
Edited by egor110 on Monday 28th April 09:55
LoonR1 said:
If I were a team owner then of be gettig rid of any current rider and replacing with none of the up and coming kids from Moto2. No point in keeping riders who aren't good enough any more. The bar has been raised.
The only candidate for me is vinales , rabat's too old , i think moto3 is a better hunting ground with miller,fenati and marquez still young enough that they'll be young gp riders.I'd also look at mark van de mark in wss although he's 3 years older than vasquez .
Also you wonder if this is suzuki's plan with lowes to move him from wsbk to gp although he's what 23/24? so he's not even that young compared to maverick.
I think laverty is too old and inconsistent far better to take a punt on lowes.
Edited by egor110 on Monday 28th April 09:59
ooo000ooo said:
FourWheelDrift said:
Dovisioso and E Laverty on Suzuki is what I predict, unless Laverty continues to blot his copybook by throwing the WSBK down the road every race weekend.
Would Eugene have to use a different number in moto gp? Was 58 withdrawn/retired after simoncelli's death?In regards the number, yes, it was retired after the last round of that fateful season after Capirossi ran it at Velnecia in honour of Marco:
"Loris Capirossi will honour close friend Marco Simoncelli by racing the late Italian’s number 58 in Sunday’s Valencia MotoGP race.
Capirossi, who will retire after Sunday’s 30-lap clash, revealed he will pay tribute to Simoncelli by replacing his famous number 65 with Simoncelli’s 58.
Simoncelli’s number 58 will be retired after Sunday’s race and it was confirmed today that the Misano circuit in Italy will be renamed in honour of the last 250GP world champion."
I suspect that we may have seen a slightly skewed version of how this season's going to play out over the last two races in terms of domination, ironically because of how talented Marquez is.
Argentina and Texas are tracks on which Marquez has the same experience as the others riders, which is why he's demolishing them I reckon. Hopefully, when we get back to tracks with the 'leveller' for the other guys (!!) of having an extra six or seven years ish of additional experience, we might get some closer racing.
I was saying to Bizzle and Nomski last night that it's damn good job Marquez is in the Rossi rather than DanPed/Lorenzo mould, personality wise, or MotoGP could be in trouble.
Argentina and Texas are tracks on which Marquez has the same experience as the others riders, which is why he's demolishing them I reckon. Hopefully, when we get back to tracks with the 'leveller' for the other guys (!!) of having an extra six or seven years ish of additional experience, we might get some closer racing.
I was saying to Bizzle and Nomski last night that it's damn good job Marquez is in the Rossi rather than DanPed/Lorenzo mould, personality wise, or MotoGP could be in trouble.
RumpleFugly said:
I don't really understand why Honda would want Lorenzo?
They have the best current rider in Marquez and they have Pedrosa who consistently brings it home in 2nd or 3rd at worst yet is passive enough not to be a threat to Marquez. Seems the perfect team to me.
Yup but if Marquez were to have a fall and injuries put him out for a while, would Pedrosa do the job in his absence?They have the best current rider in Marquez and they have Pedrosa who consistently brings it home in 2nd or 3rd at worst yet is passive enough not to be a threat to Marquez. Seems the perfect team to me.
graphene said:
egor110 said:
The only candidate for me is vinales , rabat's too old , i think moto3 is a better hunting ground with miller,fenati and marquez still young enough that they'll be young gp riders.
I'd also look at mark van de mark in wss although he's 3 years older than vasquez .
Also you wonder if this is suzuki's plan with lowes to move him from wsbk to gp although he's what 23/24? so he's not even that young compared to maverick.
I think laverty is too old and inconsistent far better to take a punt on lowes.
Are you joking - too old? Rabat is 24. If he starts next year, he is only two years older than when Lorenzo moved up to MotoGP. He has plenty of time to enjoy a 5+ year career in MotoGP.I'd also look at mark van de mark in wss although he's 3 years older than vasquez .
Also you wonder if this is suzuki's plan with lowes to move him from wsbk to gp although he's what 23/24? so he's not even that young compared to maverick.
I think laverty is too old and inconsistent far better to take a punt on lowes.
Edited by egor110 on Monday 28th April 09:59
If your honda/yam why settle with a rider with a 5 year career when you could stretch that to 7-8?
the whole game has changed with marquez which is unfortunate for the likes of rea,sykes as there just too old to ever get a (quality) gp ride.
egor110 said:
graphene said:
egor110 said:
The only candidate for me is vinales , rabat's too old , i think moto3 is a better hunting ground with miller,fenati and marquez still young enough that they'll be young gp riders.
I'd also look at mark van de mark in wss although he's 3 years older than vasquez .
Also you wonder if this is suzuki's plan with lowes to move him from wsbk to gp although he's what 23/24? so he's not even that young compared to maverick.
I think laverty is too old and inconsistent far better to take a punt on lowes.
Are you joking - too old? Rabat is 24. If he starts next year, he is only two years older than when Lorenzo moved up to MotoGP. He has plenty of time to enjoy a 5+ year career in MotoGP.I'd also look at mark van de mark in wss although he's 3 years older than vasquez .
Also you wonder if this is suzuki's plan with lowes to move him from wsbk to gp although he's what 23/24? so he's not even that young compared to maverick.
I think laverty is too old and inconsistent far better to take a punt on lowes.
Edited by egor110 on Monday 28th April 09:59
If your honda/yam why settle with a rider with a 5 year career when you could stretch that to 7-8?
the whole game has changed with marquez which is unfortunate for the likes of rea,sykes as there just too old to ever get a (quality) gp ride.
egor110 said:
Johno said:
Honda want Lorenzo, it's a great play. If they don't get him then Yamaha will have to pay him even more money to stay which takes away money from something else. If Honnda do get him they win that way. It's win/win for Honda.
Rossi won't go anywhere.
Brivio has said he'd like Pedrosa on the Suzuki. But if Lorenzo goes to Honda, then that berth at Yamaha may be more attractive for Pedrosa.
Vinales needs to win Moto2 to step I think probably, or at least be right there for a couple of seasons before getting the invite.
Your assuming lorenzo is prepared to spend another season on a bike which is no longer up to the job.Rossi won't go anywhere.
Brivio has said he'd like Pedrosa on the Suzuki. But if Lorenzo goes to Honda, then that berth at Yamaha may be more attractive for Pedrosa.
Vinales needs to win Moto2 to step I think probably, or at least be right there for a couple of seasons before getting the invite.
If he still has a hunger to be the best then he has to get a honda seat (and i still don't believe hrc will have him) so either he takes a pay cut and goes customer honda or takes the money/risk and gives the ducati a go just for a change.
Look at what iannone has been doing on the ducati, it's slowly getting there maybe lorenzo's smooth style
will suit it? although saying that i'd love to see giugliano alongside iannone, that would be a great team.
You say honda want the 2 best riders, this year they have the 2 best riders one wins and the other gets 2nd/3rd every single race , it seems even pedrossa has accepted his role probably to keep his seat for the next couple of years.
Edited by egor110 on Monday 28th April 09:38
Edited by egor110 on Monday 28th April 09:55
The chances are Lorenzo will go to Honda or stay at Yamaha, he's sacked one manager over mucking up his last negotiations with Honda.
Iannone isn't in the same league, the Ducati is far from a winning package yet. Gulliano is a never a winning GP rider as long as he has a hole in his leathers.
The 2 best riders in MGP are Lorenzo and Marquez, not Pedrosa. Whilst he's an excellent team mate you're missing the point about being the best riders.
Honda negotiating with Lorenzo gives Yamaha no option than to out bid them, if they lose Honda have the 2 best, if they win then Yamaha's racing budget is compromised to pay Lorenzo. There's a lot more to having the 2 best than just having them ride your bike, if you've got them then the opposition hasn't and you've got 2 chances to win, better chances to secure more sponsorship, better chances to win should one get injured and Honda only enter to win, nothing else.
If it was a straight fight for the title between Pedrosa and Lorenzo without this start to the season you'd find a handful would say Pedrosa, but a whole crowd from WSB at Brands in '99 who'd say Lorenzo.
That is why Honda want him, they want 2 chances to win and it's why Yamaha can't afford to lose him.
In recent years we have seen a lot of the big rider deals announced relatively early, however this year i think it could go on and on as they negotiate ....
If you don't believe HRC will 'have him', then spend some time on google and look how many times Suppo talks about it, check Superbike Planet, Autosport or Bikesportnews. In fairness the news goes back throughout 2013 as well as this year.
One other small factor for all of the riders will also be that the tyre contract is up for renewal at the end of the season and Dorna/FIM are putting in new demands in their tender, so we could see a change of supplier.
Ducati would be keen to see a change apparently as it is seen as o e reason of the lack of their competitiveness. Although the rest seem todo alright.
The demands are a wider range of tyres, which Bridgestone may not be willing to do.....
Ducati would be keen to see a change apparently as it is seen as o e reason of the lack of their competitiveness. Although the rest seem todo alright.
The demands are a wider range of tyres, which Bridgestone may not be willing to do.....
I'm not sure that Lorenzo would be much quicker on a Honda anyway - Yes it appears to be a better bike, but it's not much different to last years bike, neither is the Yamaha, however; Lorenzo isn't as close to the Honda's this season, or a close to Marquez, and also doesn't seem to be as far ahead of Rossi, who he dominated last year
Put JL on a Honda, and he's still likely to have the same issue that he's having on the Yamaha this season - The tyre. It seems to have affected JL more than any other rider - He relied heavily on the predictable edge grip of last years tyre, which he doesn't have with this years tyre. It suited his riding style and now it's changed. There is a reason he's bemoaning it so much, and a reason he's calling it the Rossi spec tyre
That won't change by giving him a Honda
Put JL on a Honda, and he's still likely to have the same issue that he's having on the Yamaha this season - The tyre. It seems to have affected JL more than any other rider - He relied heavily on the predictable edge grip of last years tyre, which he doesn't have with this years tyre. It suited his riding style and now it's changed. There is a reason he's bemoaning it so much, and a reason he's calling it the Rossi spec tyre
That won't change by giving him a Honda
The reduction in fuel permitted is on thing that's hurting Yamaha this year and I think it would effect how the edge grip is on the Yamaha when the engine is lean and peaky and the relationship to the throttle isnt the same as previously.
But any move to another bike is a risk for both parties, he may hate the Honda or Ducati or Suzuki ....
But any move to another bike is a risk for both parties, he may hate the Honda or Ducati or Suzuki ....
Do you not think the teams could sign lorenzo/pedrosa whoever but it would make no difference?
Marquez has pushed the whole game forward and the established riders are unable to compete.
Just look at his learning year in 2013 then this year he's toying with lorenzo then leaves him behind at will and lorenzo,pedrosa,rossi have no answers.
Hence why i think teams will be taking a punt on a younger rider because to spend s
t loads of money just to come 2nd or 3rd makes no sense when they can build for the future.
Marquez has pushed the whole game forward and the established riders are unable to compete.
Just look at his learning year in 2013 then this year he's toying with lorenzo then leaves him behind at will and lorenzo,pedrosa,rossi have no answers.
Hence why i think teams will be taking a punt on a younger rider because to spend s
t loads of money just to come 2nd or 3rd makes no sense when they can build for the future.Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff