RE: BMW C Evolution: PH2

[Richyboy]

At 7-8k I'd be biting their hand off. Love to try one.

[Mermaid]

Richyboy said:

At 7-8k I'd be biting their hand off. Love to try one.

I expect it will be that in less than 2 years after launch.

[dlockhart]

Considering a Piaggio 125 is less than £2400 on the road it will take a long time to recoup the other 11k.

http://www.uk.piaggio.com/piaggio/UK/en/modelli-in...

[drgoatboy]

This looks like a great solution for many in big cities.
I tried a traditional scooter a few years ago on my car license, I hated it. Far to slow and noisy but I didn't want to take a full bike test.
My commute was 12 miles in London and tricky on public transport and a smidge too far to be comfortable for me on a bike 5 days a week (I was far too tired come Friday afternoon). If something like this was available I would have definitely given it some serious thought...

[jackh707]

Taking away having to go to petrol stations and just plugging in at home seems really cool.
Obviously only works if you use your bike in a predictable manner and have a good locked garage with a power supply, but still. Like the idea.

[NXXN]

dlockhart said:

Considering a Piaggio 125 is less than £2400 on the road it will take a long time to recoup the other 11k.

http://www.uk.piaggio.com/piaggio/UK/en/modelli-in...

More like £7,632 for the 500cc ABS version actually comparable to the BMW.

[strudel]

Hang on, it loses power over time? Actual bhp, not battery charge? Please tell me that's not right.

[Plainview23]

I used a similar tech motorbike concept around Madrid and one of the massive problems is people walking in front of you because it's silent. You end up watching people on curbs to be certain that they're not about to step right in front of you. It was strange and hard to resolve.

[Jawaman]

I would love one of these for my commute - and that's coming from someone who currently rides a "proper" bike.

With BMW doing so well at the TT this year and their focus on electric vehicles I'm surprised they aren't having a shot at the TT zero

[BenPHall]

strudel said:

Hang on, it loses power over time? Actual bhp, not battery charge? Please tell me that's not right.

I think they might have misunderstood that. I think it means that as the speed of the bike increases the amount of power the motor delivers goes down. I think it's to do with back emf from the motor, and the rising voltage needed to maintain higher speeds. So the average power over the speed range of the bike is less than the learner limit. The maximum power will be delivered at zero speed.

[mike-r]

BenPHall said:

I think they might have misunderstood that. I think it means that as the speed of the bike increases the amount of power the motor delivers goes down. I think it's to do with back emf from the motor, and the rising voltage needed to maintain higher speeds. So the average power over the speed range of the bike is less than the learner limit. The maximum power will be delivered at zero speed.

It's still a pretty bizzaro way of operating, surely the restrictions on learners is for safety reasons and based on performance rather than some shifty mathematics.

[donteatpeople]

It does seem very odd to use an average power rating. It's not like ICE bikes are rated by the average of the area under their power curve. I can see that being amended at some point.

Plainview23 said:

I used a similar tech motorbike concept around Madrid and one of the massive problems is people walking in front of you because it's silent. You end up watching people on curbs to be certain that they're not about to step right in front of you. It was strange and hard to resolve.

Did you try using the horn? (in a non-sarcastic, curious at the outcome type of way) I can see myself sounding like a one man carnival riding through town if I had an electric bike.

[Mermaid]

Riding at night and using heated grips (if available) will reduce range further.

[Mr Gear]

dlockhart said:

Considering a Piaggio 125 is less than £2400 on the road it will take a long time to recoup the other 11k.

http://www.uk.piaggio.com/piaggio/UK/en/modelli-in...

This is the biggest problem for electric bikes. Petrol ones are so cheap! And because that Piaggio will probably do 80-100mpg, the fuel isn't much of an issue from a price perspective either.

However, electric bikes ride great, there is no denying. I'm not going to be sad when I move away from petrol.

[srob]

Mr Gear said:

This is the biggest problem for electric bikes. Petrol ones are so cheap! And because that Piaggio will probably do 80-100mpg, the fuel isn't much of an issue from a price perspective either.

However, electric bikes ride great, there is no denying. I'm not going to be sad when I move away from petrol.

Carrots to stuff in the front of your current transport were cheap when people first had to buy petrol

[Plainview23]

donteatpeople said:

Did you try using the horn? (in a non-sarcastic, curious at the outcome type of way) I can see myself sounding like a one man carnival riding through town if I had an electric bike.

Yeah you use it all the time.
The real danger is people who are just a few feet in front of you and step off a curb as they turn to look -- thinking it's safe to step down because they can hear nothing. Wait 'til these things catch on, they're going to have to stick a noise on them somehow. Otherwise it was fantastic.

[Mr Gear]

Plainview23 said:

donteatpeople said:

Did you try using the horn? (in a non-sarcastic, curious at the outcome type of way) I can see myself sounding like a one man carnival riding through town if I had an electric bike.

Yeah you use it all the time.
The real danger is people who are just a few feet in front of you and step off a curb as they turn to look -- thinking it's safe to step down because they can hear nothing. Wait 'til these things catch on, they're going to have to stick a noise on them somehow. Otherwise it was fantastic.

Ever ridden a bicycle? Welcome to my world.

[donteatpeople]

Plainview23 said:

The real danger is people who are just a few feet in front of you and step off a curb as they turn to look -- thinking it's safe to step down because they can hear nothing.

This was what I was trying to get at. If you're a few feet behind a pedestrian and they're hearing nothing it's because you're not using the horn. I'd be using the horn approaching every pedestrian that wasn't looking directly at me.

Plainview23 said:

they're going to have to stick a noise on them somehow.

This does seem to be a common theme in EV threads and I've yet to understand why people ignore the user operated audible warning device fitted to every motor vehicle already.

[VeryRON]

I'm not sure the range is that much of a problem (do people commute that far on scooters?), and the price might come down.

However, surely a bigger problem of electric vehicles designed for use in cities, is that 99% of people in cites live in flats, or have on-street parking (not necessarily near the house)... so where do you charge them?

Those free charging bays will fill up awfully quickly.

[Mad Jock]

VeryRON said:

However, surely a bigger problem of electric vehicles designed for use in cities, is that 99% of people in cites live in flats, or have on-street parking (not necessarily near the house)... so where do you charge them?

Those free charging bays will fill up awfully quickly.

The C-Evolution has a domestic 3 pin plug, so access to the free charging bays is moot. BMW are apparently working on this to allow either system to be used.

That being siad, you can probably get a scooter closer to your front door to recharge it than an electric car.

I test rode one of these a couple of weeks ago, and was hugely impressed with it, the price notwithstanding. The retardation in Dynamic mode is exactly as the article suggested, and I didn't use the brakes either. It feels surprisingly quick, and is a doddle to ride, especially in town.

BMW, like other manufacturers, are looking to wealthy early adopters for the initial sales. The problem, as I see it, is that development in this field is so rapid at the moment, that today's technology will be outdated within months. A bit like the latest must have computer/TV/camera/phone thing. Each new evolution will devalue the previous generation.