Metzeler M7RR

[Mr OCD]

spareparts said:

Mr OCD said:

One thing I don't understand is how little mileage you are getting from modern sports rubber... is this due to the road surfaces abroad being more abrasive? ... the weight of the bike / rider... ?

I would have expected with fast road riding around 4k-5k miles otherwise.

I don't think the road surfaces were overly abrasive. Those M7RRs covered roads from Bilbao up to the Grossglockner and everything in between. The most I have ever gotten out of a modern tyre (including PP3, DRC, SportSmart, SC, SCv2, and now M7RR) is about 3k miles, and apart from the SC/SCv2 (1k miles), I've only gotten between 2-2.5k miles on average. 3DP will tell you that I am not an aggressive rider - in his own words... "conservative" I'm not sure why others often ride so slowly though. Weight? I'm between 90-95kg depending on time of year

Chipchap said:

Yes, why do you think that is Spareparts ? [lol]

Al, come on. You will be the first to admit that the pace was quite leisurely as the 2014 focus was safety and scenery!

Strange so even on a tyre such a SC / SCv2's you get the same mileage? What is the bike?

I get good mileage from a tyre such as a PP3 ... but poor mileage on a tyre such as older single compounds and I wouldn't dare use an SC as know I'd be lucky to achieve 2k miles.

[Mr OCD]

SVS said:

Why not?

I've been quite happy with earlier sports tyres from Bridgestone and the new S20 Evo is well reviewed.

.. because every Bridgestone I've ridden on has been st. (well you asked)

[spareparts]

Mr OCD said:

Strange so even on a tyre such a SC / SCv2's you get the same mileage? What is the bike?

No, I said I only get about 1k miles out of an SC. But that is not a fair comparison as that is a combination of track and road hence why I singled them out. Other tyres are almost purely road.

[Chipchap]

spareparts said:

Al, come on. You will be the first to admit that the pace was quite leisurely as the 2014 focus was safety and scenery!

It was certainly slower than last year but by no means can it ever be described as pedestrian. Over 12 days I cannot recall anyone, local or not overtake us or even stay with us anywhere. Even on roads that we were riding for the first time. We were not "On it" everywhere but we certainly made swift progress. We did see some wonderful scenery but we still needed to cover c270-300 miles each day whatever the weather or roads. We have possibly 1500+ images between us to show that we did stop and gawk a fair bit.

My experience was that in the really slow tight nadgery stuff [10-20 mph] I [not the bike] just could not live with 3 of you but on the 30-110 stuff I was in the hunt. Above that the Speed Triple was just the wrong tool for the job.

I need to learn how to ride those mountain hairpins as you 3 made me look decidedly below average. Perhaps that's why your tyres did not last. The slow turns with low gear big throttle exits ?

A

[Mr OCD]

spareparts said:

No, I said I only get about 1k miles out of an SC.

Missed that part...

I guess it comes down to the style of bike... what sort of mileage do you get from the fronts?

[spareparts]

Mr OCD said:

2000-2500 miles from something like a Pilot Power 3 is NOT atypical mileage.

The PP3s were box fresh at the start of my roadtrip to the Pyrenees in 2013. They were shot at the end (2100 miles)

Mr OCD said:

spareparts said:

No, I said I only get about 1k miles out of an SC.

Missed that part...

I guess it comes down to the style of bike... what sort of mileage do you get from the fronts?

I always change my tyres in pairs. When the rear is shot, the front gets changed too.

Chipchap said:

It was certainly slower than last year but by no means can it ever be described as pedestrian. Over 12 days I cannot recall anyone, local or not overtake us or even stay with us anywhere. Even on roads that we were riding for the first time. We were not "On it" everywhere but we certainly made swift progress. We did see some wonderful scenery but we still needed to cover c270-300 miles each day whatever the weather or roads. We have possibly 1500+ images between us to show that we did stop and gawk a fair bit.

My experience was that in the really slow tight nadgery stuff [10-20 mph] I [not the bike] just could not live with 3 of you but on the 30-110 stuff I was in the hunt. Above that the Speed Triple was just the wrong tool for the job.

I need to learn how to ride those mountain hairpins as you 3 made me look decidedly below average. Perhaps that's why your tyres did not last. The slow turns with low gear big throttle exits ?

A

Al, you are being overly modest. I distinctly remember waving you through in a number of sections (Rio Eseras) and I have video to prove The K is a big ole bus that is new to me and I was learning to ride it all the way on this trip. As a result, I was happy sitting in the higher gears throughout, never less than 2nd on a tight hairpin, unless going downhill. Nothing could live with the Tuono aggressively dumping full V-twin throttle through shortened gearing on exit though.

[Mr OCD]

spareparts said:

The PP3s were box fresh at the start of my roadtrip to the Pyrenees in 2013. They were shot at the end (2100 miles)

I always change my tyres in pairs. When the rear is shot, the front gets changed too.

Fair enough... have you done the same trip on a different bike but similar rubber before for comparison?

As for the M7 RR I've found out they are made by Pirelli... I wonder what tyre is a direct comparison to the M7RR?

[kingb]

I have one on the back of my RSV (will go on the front too once the current one is done) and it was replacing the M5 which i did like.

I have to say i really like the tyre - lots of grip and up to temp fast. it feels very "plush" and easy and the bike rolls into ends better than the M5

[spareparts]

Mr OCD said:

spareparts said:

The PP3s were box fresh at the start of my roadtrip to the Pyrenees in 2013. They were shot at the end (2100 miles)

I always change my tyres in pairs. When the rear is shot, the front gets changed too.

Fair enough... have you done the same trip on a different bike but similar rubber before for comparison?

As for the M7 RR I've found out they are made by Pirelli... I wonder what tyre is a direct comparison to the M7RR?

2013 was on the 1098R + c.15kg backpack = c.300kg all in. 2014 was on the K1300S + c.20kg luggage = c.390kg all in. The direct comparison to the M7RR in Pirelli's range is the DRC. But the carcass construction and compounds are completely different. Only the carcass profile seems similar.

[J B L]

Mr OCD said:

SVS said:

+1. Also, how about S20 Evo tyres?

I won't touch bridgestones... but that's just my opinion.

I've got S20s ion the R1. In fact, I have just installed my 2nd set as I was quite impressed by the first one.

Pros: If you like your bike to drop in the corners get them. At my limited level, it's the first tyre I feel has really made a difference to the R1's propensity to drop into corner and flip from side to side. Hard acceleration cranked over coming out of a corner, no problem, no drama, really good grip and feel.
Wet grip was good as well given it's supposed to be a road/track tyre.

Cons: original S20 wore their centre quickly. We had a long motorway stint with 3DP and Smack last year coming back from the Alps and Pete's Michelin were looking fine whereas the S20's middle looked like they'd been on a trackday . I believe the Evo version addressed this.

[3DP]

Mr OCD said:

SAS Tom said:

I think your version of fast road riding and his may differ...

It doesn't matter if it does / does not ... 2000-2500 miles from something like a Pilot Power 3 is NOT atypical mileage.

On a single compound older sports tyre... something more track biased such as supercorsa's or the like yes I'd accept that...

On a modern multi-compound sports road tyre - no

It kind of does matter - the N152 had quite a visible affect on my tyres. A couple of hundred miles of absolutely on it, flat stick 2nd/3rd gear smooth mountain roads with full race-track braking into the bends, using the ABS on the rear to back it in without crashing it. 35-110 and back again through bend after bend interspersed with shortish semi-straights, meaning you were always leant over, but hard on throttle or brakes. I think Ade measured that that road took a mm alone from his rear!

This route ruined me physically, caused the ZZR pads to smoke heavily twice and had the front PR3 with rubber hanging off all of the sipes across the full width of the tyre. The rear lost all of its leading edges on the blocks and using the ABS on the rear brake to back it in caused some chunking either side of the middle, even if it did make you feel like a hero.

Similarly in the foothills of the Pyranees. Constant radius lefts and rights that went on forever at 130+ with big lean had a visible affect.

Without the couple of days of rain we had I reckon the tyres would have been even worse! All of the edge of the Gorge du Verdon was taken carefully with mud on the road in torrential rain. That would have been another 100+ miles of very rapid open mountain roads in the dry.

[spareparts]

3DP said:

Mr OCD said:

SAS Tom said:

I think your version of fast road riding and his may differ...

It doesn't matter if it does / does not ... 2000-2500 miles from something like a Pilot Power 3 is NOT atypical mileage.

On a single compound older sports tyre... something more track biased such as supercorsa's or the like yes I'd accept that...

On a modern multi-compound sports road tyre - no

It kind of does matter - the N152 had quite a visible affect on my tyres. A couple of hundred miles of absolutely on it, flat stick 2nd/3rd gear smooth mountain roads with full race-track braking into the bends, using the ABS on the rear to back it in without crashing it. 35-110 and back again through bend after bend interspersed with shortish semi-straights, meaning you were always leant over, but hard on throttle or brakes. I think Ade measured that that road took a mm alone from his rear!

This route ruined me physically, caused the ZZR pads to smoke heavily twice and had the front PR3 with rubber hanging off all of the sipes across the full width of the tyre. The rear lost all of its leading edges on the blocks and using the ABS on the rear brake to back it in caused some chunking either side of the middle, even if it did make you feel like a hero.

Similarly in the foothills of the Pyranees. Constant radius lefts and rights that went on forever at 130+ with big lean had a visible affect.

Without the couple of days of rain we had I reckon the tyres would have been even worse! All of the edge of the Gorge du Verdon was taken carefully with mud on the road in torrential rain. That would have been another 100+ miles of very rapid open mountain roads in the dry.

Told you the N152 was a good ride The scenery was epic!

[Chipchap]

spareparts said:

Told you the N152 was a good ride The scenery was epic!

Did we see any ? Have we got photographic evidence to support that statement ? I mostly saw a big wide black ZZR1400 with a hinge in it.

A

[3DP]

spareparts said:

Told you the N152 was a good ride The scenery was epic!

I don't recall any of the scenery other than the stops on that route! Focus was all on staying with that bloody Tuono.

[Deranged Granny]

Nevermind a tyre review, how about reviewing the trip

[Chipchap]

Deranged Granny said:

Nevermind a tyre review, how about reviewing the trip

It was good, you should have been there. Review done.

[Mr OCD]

3DP said:

It kind of does matter - the N152 had quite a visible affect on my tyres. A couple of hundred miles of absolutely on it, flat stick 2nd/3rd gear smooth mountain roads with full race-track braking into the bends, using the ABS on the rear to back it in without crashing it. 35-110 and back again through bend after bend interspersed with shortish semi-straights, meaning you were always leant over, but hard on throttle or brakes. I think Ade measured that that road took a mm alone from his rear!

This route ruined me physically, caused the ZZR pads to smoke heavily twice and had the front PR3 with rubber hanging off all of the sipes across the full width of the tyre. The rear lost all of its leading edges on the blocks and using the ABS on the rear brake to back it in caused some chunking either side of the middle, even if it did make you feel like a hero.

Similarly in the foothills of the Pyranees. Constant radius lefts and rights that went on forever at 130+ with big lean had a visible affect.

Without the couple of days of rain we had I reckon the tyres would have been even worse! All of the edge of the Gorge du Verdon was taken carefully with mud on the road in torrential rain. That would have been another 100+ miles of very rapid open mountain roads in the dry.

Clearly a 'Hero'... Good effort

[SVS]

Thanks J-B This is very helpful info.

J B L said:

Pros: If you like your bike to drop in the corners get them. At my limited level, it's the first tyre I feel has really made a difference to the R1's propensity to drop into corner and flip from side to side. Hard acceleration cranked over coming out of a corner, no problem, no drama, really good grip and feel.
Wet grip was good as well given it's supposed to be a road/track tyre.

I like my bike to drop into corners, but read that the S20 EVO doesn't drop as quickly as my current Pilot Power 3. Reading your post, perhaps the EVO still has a sharp enough profile for my riding on the road. The PP3, however, had been outstanding in the wet. I wonder if the EVO can match it.

J B L said:

Cons: original S20 wore their centre quickly. We had a long motorway stint with 3DP and Smack last year coming back from the Alps and Pete's Michelin were looking fine whereas the S20's middle looked like they'd been on a trackday . I believe the Evo version addressed this.

I loved my old BT016 tyres, except for this problem (also noticed after a trip to the Alps, coincidentally). I haven't gone back to Bridgestones since, but the new EVO looks tempting.

Perhaps I should stick with PP3, which have been awesome, but it's always interesting to try a new tyre.

[Baldy881]

I could be very tempted to try some Metzeler rubber on the GSX-R1000 K4, the bike has Dunlop D209 Q's on it now but they appear quite well worn and my only previous experience of Dunlop tyres was mixed to say the least

Been reading a number of reviews today (really off the back of this thread - thanks! ) and it seems all the Metz's come rated.

But where do you turn? If I went solely on journo reviews and user reviews there'd be no need for more than the Sportec M3:

http://www.visordown.com/product-features/metzeler...

That's a blindin review right there and user reviews all over the WWW would support it. But then it's 2006 technology (which granted my bike is 2004 so tech is later than the bike). Obviously the newer tyres get equal or better reviews.

So you think maybe Sportec M5, but why not the M7RR as it's the newest tech? I think I can overcome the urge to buy something like a Racetec K3 as my use does not justify. Then there's the pricing... (using FWR as a comparison)

Sportec M3 pair £175
Sportec M5 pair £213
Sportec M7RR pair £226
(I see a trend forming here )
Racetec K3 pair £254

at which point I baulk

Always been a Bridgestone fan, and never felt I need more than the BT016 has to offer, but then I feel i'm daft to dismiss the Metzeler as they seem better reviewed overall and the Bridgestone does suffer fatigue quite early (sub 3k miles).

What to do?!

[spareparts]

Baldy881 said:

I could be very tempted to try some Metzeler rubber on the GSX-R1000 K4, the bike has Dunlop D209 Q's on it now but they appear quite well worn and my only previous experience of Dunlop tyres was mixed to say the least

Been reading a number of reviews today (really off the back of this thread - thanks! ) and it seems all the Metz's come rated.

But where do you turn? If I went solely on journo reviews and user reviews there'd be no need for more than the Sportec M3:

http://www.visordown.com/product-features/metzeler...

That's a blindin review right there and user reviews all over the WWW would support it. But then it's 2006 technology (which granted my bike is 2004 so tech is later than the bike). Obviously the newer tyres get equal or better reviews.

So you think maybe Sportec M5, but why not the M7RR as it's the newest tech? I think I can overcome the urge to buy something like a Racetec K3 as my use does not justify. Then there's the pricing... (using FWR as a comparison)

Sportec M3 pair £175
Sportec M5 pair £213
Sportec M7RR pair £226
(I see a trend forming here )
Racetec K3 pair £254

at which point I baulk

Always been a Bridgestone fan, and never felt I need more than the BT016 has to offer, but then I feel i'm daft to dismiss the Metzeler as they seem better reviewed overall and the Bridgestone does suffer fatigue quite early (sub 3k miles).

What to do?!

Don't bother with the M3. They are like concrete in comparison to the latest M7RR. The M5 was a top rated tyre, and the M7RR builds on this. In the Metzeler range, the current tyres are Z8 M/O for sports touring, the M7RR for road sports, and Racetecs for track. Everything else has been superceded.

I must admit that I have long been a Pirelli fan, but to me the unique carcass construction of the Metzeler range gives a very user-friendly tyre in terms of stability and comfort without sacrificing performance/turn-in. Their focus on wet weather compounds also seems to be setting the bar for manufacturers as both their Z8 and now M7RR have been top rated in the wet for their respective categories.