Professional racers, a cut above?

Professional racers, a cut above?

Author
Discussion

sjtscott

4,215 posts

230 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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srob said:
btdk5 said:
It's not.

Most of it has been taught and learnt. Maybe not the guys at the very top but ask anyone who races for a living, they all started when they were a kid and have been doing it for at least a decade.

Moto gp is obviously a different stratosphere but they were all racing at 4 years old!
Shakey Byrne competed in/won his first race when he was 18 they said on the telly the other day.

I started riding when I was 4 and had done my first trackday when I was 18. I'm still st and slow though hehe
I remember watching Shakey in a wally (novice) bib at Cadwell park on a new era club racing meet on a supersport race wipe the floor with everyone else he was racing against. He was doing stand up wheelies posing to the crowd over the mountain and won by a country mile. It was around summer 96 so that would have made him around 19 at the time (His DOB is Dec 76). I got the impression he was simply doing the races (given the lack of competition) to get the stamps to progress to a proper race license.


roboxm3

2,414 posts

194 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
quotequote all
I'd say that, as with any sport, it mainly comes down to quality practice.

Quality practice and the right genetics / mentality is what probably sets the best 2 or 3 apart from the rest but I don't believe that anyone is necessarily born to do anything.

There's an interesting book (Bounce) that explores the theory and concludes that, within reason, 10,000 hours of quality practice and anyone can be amongst the best in the world at anything.

When I used to do a bit of MX, we'd sometimes have a day off in the week to ride at our local track where you'd get a few pro's practicing.
The quickest rider there was a multiple British champ and always looked like he wasn't really trying. Even the other pro's, who raced in the same series and looked like they were wringing their bikes neck couldn't match his times.

His dad had owned a track all through his cildhood, so he'd probably learned to ride a motorbike before a pedal bike and practiced / raced from as soon as he was allowed. The others probably rode a hell of a lot but that's the difference.

tight5

2,747 posts

158 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
quotequote all
srob said:
For bike racing I guess these things would also have to include the ability to ride around the part of your brain that says "last time we tried this, we broke a leg so back off"
Lorenzo was saying that's why he wasn't so good at Assen this year .

srob said:
Everyone has natural talent for something. Whether music, art, writing, running, surfing or motorcycle racing, I honestly believe that you need a natural set of 'data' to enable you to be at the pinnacle.
a few years ago my rugby club was invited to train for a couple of sessions with Newcastle Falcons .
what an eye opener that was . their warm up was more tiring than our normal full game .
in the second session we did position specific training , in my case front row .
it was like men v boys !

I like to console myself by thinking they (professional racers or rugby players ) can't drive a train like I can !
wink

Renn Sport

2,761 posts

208 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
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Similarly Schumacher's dad was running a Karting track, so from a very young age MS was getting his practice in.

Mick Doohan had been riding bikes since he was 4/5 years old with his father owning a motorcycle shop.

I think a lot does come down to how early you start and the practice you can get.

MajorProblem

4,700 posts

163 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
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It's mentality above everything else as others have said.

I work with a successful ex racer and you'd think he wasn't wired up right.


Chipchap

2,580 posts

196 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
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If you look really closely at the TV when Moto GP or WSB/BSB is on you can actually see that the front runners are almost crashing in every turn and its that sort of commitment that separates them from us mere mortals.

If you are on your own bike, bought and paid for [or still paying for] by you in a club race then subconsciously most will keep a little bit back in reserve as that is human nature. However if you are on a sponsored ride where the objective is to win not just make up the numbers then some will up the ante. Their own motivation and self belief will determine how much they up it by and the longer that they continue to flirt with disaster but avoid it then this becomes the accepted norm.

A crash may hit the reset button but they will start again from a higher level than many on here may ever achieve.

They are not gods, merely humans who have extended the boundaries of what they thought was possible.

A


mitzy

13,857 posts

196 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
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I dont know who the bloke was that was in the Novice group in Snetteron early this year
When he came past me with his knee and elbow down lookin like MM.

Made me giggle - he must have been a racer.


clen666

925 posts

121 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
Chipchap said:
If you are on your own bike, bought and paid for [or still paying for] by you in a club race then subconsciously most will keep a little bit back in reserve as that is human nature. However if you are on a sponsored ride where the objective is to win not just make up the numbers then some will up the ante. Their own motivation and self belief will determine how much they up it by and the longer that they continue to flirt with disaster but avoid it then this becomes the accepted norm.
This is why I want a 'cheap' track bike.
I haven't done a trackday yet but worry that I won't show as much commitment for fear of throwing it into the gravel, as my ambition greatly outweighs my talent at the moment.

MC Bodge

21,551 posts

174 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
Look back to your childhood. There were some kids who were a "Sport Billy" or a genius. Give them lots and lots of practice and, if they have the right mentality, they might be very good or a 'great'. They might also go off the rails....

MC Bodge

21,551 posts

174 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
Something more related to vehicle racing is, again going back to childhood, some kids will get stuck in to rough games, dangerous activities, fighting, riding bikes down slag heaps etc. and some won't. These characteristics remain into adulthood.
(I have the injuries to demonstrate the above, with a lack of skill!)


I once read that a fast and furious racing driver can be calmed into becoming a good, fast racing driver, but a slow, steady racing driver will rarely become fast.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 24th July 16:17

Mike600F

1,049 posts

155 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
MC Bodge said:
I once read that a fast and furious racing driver can be calmed into becoming a good, fast racing driver, but a slow, steady racing driver will rarely become fast.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 24th July 16:17
Eddie Jordan likes to use this line too, and I'm sure he knows.

Muzzer79

9,805 posts

186 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
Surprised how many people are saying that it's just practice and time spent on track....

A portion of their speed is down to practice absolutely, along with the fact that they're not afraid to bin it.

However, a large amount is simple talent, otherwise we'd all be doing it.

To say otherwise is like suggesting we'd all be scoring for fun in the Premier League if we could have spent enough time on a football pitch...

MajorProblem

4,700 posts

163 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
I could never be any level of footballer regardless of time spent practising as I don't like football one bit therefor no interest in becoming any good.

There are some who want to become the best and some that need to become the best. Those that need will go further.

srob

11,564 posts

237 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Surprised how many people are saying that it's just practice and time spent on track....

A portion of their speed is down to practice absolutely, along with the fact that they're not afraid to bin it.

However, a large amount is simple talent, otherwise we'd all be doing it.

To say otherwise is like suggesting we'd all be scoring for fun in the Premier League if we could have spent enough time on a football pitch...
Exactly, or award winning artists etc.

Everyone's brains and bodies function in different ways, meaning you have different strengths and abilities.

When all these align in one person to give the ability in the discipline they're interested in, and they have the motivation, backing and breaks required - you end up with someone at the very top of whatever the sport/activity.

If any of those things are missing you'll end up with someone (potentially!) good with practice, but not the best.

btdk5

1,850 posts

189 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Surprised how many people are saying that it's just practice and time spent on track....

A portion of their speed is down to practice absolutely, along with the fact that they're not afraid to bin it.

However, a large amount is simple talent, otherwise we'd all be doing it.

To say otherwise is like suggesting we'd all be scoring for fun in the Premier League if we could have spent enough time on a football pitch...
How long have you spent practising and at what age did you start riding a motorbike?

LoonR1

Original Poster:

26,988 posts

176 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
Just seen this video.

10:00 start watching and Joe Burns comes through on the inside into Redgate, watch how quickly he clears off. The guy doing the videoing is doing 1:51ish laps, which isn't too bad.

I overtake the video bike at 10:40ish into Macleans if that matters.

http://youtu.be/RBh2SBxWdEY

tight5

2,747 posts

158 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
LoonR1 said:
Joe Burns comes through on the inside into Redgate, watch how quickly he clears off.
doesn't he , though ?
slams it on its side and away he goes .

LoonR1 said:
I overtake the video bike at 10:40ish into Macleans if that matters.
and he gets you back out of foggys ?
wink

I like the way you avoid having to buy new knee sliders .
laugh

MC Bodge

21,551 posts

174 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
LoonR1 said:
Just seen this video.

10:00 start watching and Joe Burns comes through on the inside into Redgate, watch how quickly he clears off. The guy doing the videoing is doing 1:51ish laps, which isn't too bad.

I overtake the video bike at 10:40ish into Macleans if that matters.

http://youtu.be/RBh2SBxWdEY
Good grief, Joe Burns is quick. Braking harder and carrying much more speed than the rest.

Which bike are you riding?

LoonR1

Original Poster:

26,988 posts

176 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
tight5 said:
and he gets you back out of foggys ?
wink

I like the way you avoid having to buy new knee sliders .
laugh
I st myself coming out of Foggys. The guy in front ran on, so I tried to square it and he just chopped straight in front of me. The video doesn't really show it, but it felt bloody close.

He didn't get me,, he hung back and the. I clear off so nerrrrrrr.

LoonR1

Original Poster:

26,988 posts

176 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
MC Bodge said:
Good grief, Joe Burns is quick. Braking harder and carrying much more speed than the rest.

Which bike are you riding?
Exactly, the camera still doesn't show just how quick and sideways the bike is. I'm on an S1000.