Professional racers, a cut above?
Discussion
In the last week I've spent a few days on track with James & Dean Ellison and Joe Burns. All I can say is that it's astonishing to watch them when they're "on it".
Incredible watching Joe scythe through the field at Donington today, backing it into Redgate like a madman and showing just how fast, fast is. I got down to 1:45 today, he was rattling off 1:32s all day.
They must have a screw or ten loose to be able to ride the way they do. Seriously, there's no way I could ever ride a bike that way unless I was falling off.
Incredible watching Joe scythe through the field at Donington today, backing it into Redgate like a madman and showing just how fast, fast is. I got down to 1:45 today, he was rattling off 1:32s all day.
They must have a screw or ten loose to be able to ride the way they do. Seriously, there's no way I could ever ride a bike that way unless I was falling off.
Indeed. I've been fortunate to spend a lot of time on track with the likes of Sheridan Morais (WSS/WSB Evo) amongst others and their pace is staggering!
I even overtook him once. He was coming out of the pits and i took my opportunity to do him up the inside before we got on track. It counts!!
I even overtook him once. He was coming out of the pits and i took my opportunity to do him up the inside before we got on track. It counts!!
Edited by bass gt3 on Tuesday 22 July 21:15
I managed to just hang onto Phil Crowe for 2 laps at Donington a few weeks back even managed to slip past him only for him to pass me and then slew out of line into the Melbourne loop making us both run wide.
I got the drive and started to out drag him before thinking what the f
k am I doing.
I'm too old.
I got the drive and started to out drag him before thinking what the f
k am I doing.I'm too old.
LoonR1 said:
In the last week I've spent a few days on track with James & Dean Ellison and Joe Burns. All I can say is that it's astonishing to watch them when they're "on it".
Adam Jenkinson was at Oulton too last Tuesday. Felt like I was doing ok with a best lap time of 1:52... he somehow managed a best lap of 1:39 with consistent 1:40-41s. Got some good advice off him though with lines etc. Once had Sam Lowes come past me down Craner curves with his elbow down... made me realise I was just playing at it.
bass gt3 said:
Indeed. I've been fortunate to spend a lot of time on track with the likes of Sheridan Morais (WSS/WSB Evo) amongst others and their pace is staggering!
I even overtook him once. He was coming out of the pits and i took my opportunity to do him up the inside before we got on track. It counts!!
I even overtook him once. He was coming out of the pits and i took my opportunity to do him up the inside before we got on track. It counts!!
Edited by bass gt3 on Tuesday 22 July 21:15
A pass is a pass!
spareparts said:
A pass is a pass!
I've got a couple of claims to fame then. Stuck with James Ellison for 3 laps at Oulton last week (they were sighting laps)
Gino Rea fell off trying to stay ahead of me at Donington. Ignore the fact he went past me like I was stood still about a minute before.
It is incredible to watch. I look at the fastgroup at most track days as an achievable goal for anybody with enough time money desire and a little bit of skill. Dont get me wrong you fast lot are mighty impressive but the top tier of the fasties looks achievable, the odd proper racer ive watched in the fast group have been in a category of their own. I watched gary johnson who isnt even a top circuit runner make everyone in the fast group at cadwell look like amateurs somehow. They just seem to have that extra slice of talent that just cant be taught or learnt
Tim85 said:
They just seem to have that extra slice of talent that just cant be taught or learnt
That's the crux of it really. I have thought about this extensively in relation to one of my other loves, which is playing guitar. Anyone with enough patience and inclination can learn to be competent. Within the "standard" players group, some can achieve very impressive technical proficiency, but only a few a few can reach the top tier of ability, and even less people can utilise that ability to write listenable music. What separates those and the very top from those who can do a decent impression of those at the top is a mix of genetics, inspiration and creativity.The parameters on a bike are different - the fear of injury, death and in a survivable crash, the cost of destroying bikes and kit would put many off from riding at their limit. Racers are not afraid to ride on the limit when they need to, and even a fast regular rider, pushing to the max might be able to keep up for a while. But the racers, the ones who have the extra level of ability that cannot be taught, have a mix of genetic makeup and learned ability which has allowed them to control a bike beyond the level of even a well practised "normal" rider, and the mindset to ride mostly without the fears that put most off.
Same as any motorsport, in the main id agree that they are a cut above. However lots of people never reach there full potential due to the lack of funding.
In all motorsport money talks it can make people look better than they are but at the end of the day you cant buy talent.
Its great to race against and see how good some people are though, the odd time when your on fire mix it up a bit
In all motorsport money talks it can make people look better than they are but at the end of the day you cant buy talent.
Its great to race against and see how good some people are though, the odd time when your on fire mix it up a bit
Edited by theshrew on Tuesday 22 July 22:58
Yes they are talented, but they have also done a st load of practise.
If you were on track as much as them, you'd be a hell of a lot faster. It's also different when someone else is paying for repairs, and when the tyres don't have to last 2 days.
I don't think it's unachievable, I just think its out of most people's budgets and time constraints
t load of practise. If you were on track as much as them, you'd be a hell of a lot faster. It's also different when someone else is paying for repairs, and when the tyres don't have to last 2 days.
I don't think it's unachievable, I just think its out of most people's budgets and time constraints
It's like comparing anyone on here playing a professional tennis player. They've never had the funding, the dedicated time, the facilities and more importantly the connections and lucky breaks to come close to them. Given all of those factors there would be many, many more great tennis players and in this context bike racers.
Money and contacts are the key to any sport.
Money and contacts are the key to any sport.
Silver993tt said:
It's like comparing anyone on here playing a professional tennis player. They've never had the funding, the dedicated time, the facilities and more importantly the connections and lucky breaks to come close to them. Given all of those factors there would be many, many more great tennis players and in this context bike racers.
Money and contacts are the key to any sport.
A decade ago you had lots of pretty handy golf players who were posties.Money and contacts are the key to any sport.
Why, because we'd use xmas tips to buy a years club membership combined with finishing work by 12 so we could practice/play every single day before picking the kids up from school.
I'm sure if you could ride on track for 2 hours 5-6 times a week you'd improve, although the other costs obviously are in a different league.
Mastodon2 said:
That's the crux of it really. I have thought about this extensively in relation to one of my other loves, which is playing guitar. Anyone with enough patience and inclination can learn to be competent. Within the "standard" players group, some can achieve very impressive technical proficiency, but only a few a few can reach the top tier of ability, and even less people can utilise that ability to write listenable music. What separates those and the very top from those who can do a decent impression of those at the top is a mix of genetics, inspiration and creativity.
The parameters on a bike are different - the fear of injury, death and in a survivable crash, the cost of destroying bikes and kit would put many off from riding at their limit. Racers are not afraid to ride on the limit when they need to, and even a fast regular rider, pushing to the max might be able to keep up for a while. But the racers, the ones who have the extra level of ability that cannot be taught, have a mix of genetic makeup and learned ability which has allowed them to control a bike beyond the level of even a well practised "normal" rider, and the mindset to ride mostly without the fears that put most off.
Very well put, I could not agree more. I spent a lot of time at 17/18 doing Formula Ford. I had my own car and was (in my opinion reasonably quick). Back then I had razor sharp reactions and a lot of drive however in any form of racing there are two ingredients you must possess..The parameters on a bike are different - the fear of injury, death and in a survivable crash, the cost of destroying bikes and kit would put many off from riding at their limit. Racers are not afraid to ride on the limit when they need to, and even a fast regular rider, pushing to the max might be able to keep up for a while. But the racers, the ones who have the extra level of ability that cannot be taught, have a mix of genetic makeup and learned ability which has allowed them to control a bike beyond the level of even a well practised "normal" rider, and the mindset to ride mostly without the fears that put most off.
1) To be at least 5% faster than the rest.. and
2) To have deep pockets if you don't have sponsorship.
Sadly I had none of the above and it was clear after a couple of seasons that I had neither the resource of the talent to make it big time. I wish I could have been that famous racer but now I'm old and semi senile I would rather keep it sunny side up and leave the mental stuff for others like Loon and Bn et all
I take the pilgrimage to LeMans 24hour every year and dream the dream along with 10,000 pissed up others that I would be taking part and winning.. but that is all it is.. a dream
If you've got it, pin it. If you haven't buy a Pan
egor110 said:
A decade ago you had lots of pretty handy golf players who were posties.
Why, because we'd use xmas tips to buy a years club membership combined with finishing work by 12 so we could practice/play every single day before picking the kids up from school.
I'm sure if you could ride on track for 2 hours 5-6 times a week you'd improve, although the other costs obviously are in a different league.
I wanted to turn Pro when I was 17 but my parents wanted me to carry on getting something to fall back on just in case it didn't work out ( fair point I suppose ) So I did my apprenticeship found beer and women and have never forgave them since lol Why, because we'd use xmas tips to buy a years club membership combined with finishing work by 12 so we could practice/play every single day before picking the kids up from school.
I'm sure if you could ride on track for 2 hours 5-6 times a week you'd improve, although the other costs obviously are in a different league.
The words 'be a mechanic son job for life' will haunt me forever. Cheers Dad
Biker's Nemesis said:
I managed to just hang onto Phil Crowe for 2 laps at Donington a few weeks back even managed to slip past him only for him to pass me and then slew out of line into the Melbourne loop making us both run wide.
I got the drive and started to out drag him before thinking what the fk am I doing.
I'm too old.
You really are my hero I got the drive and started to out drag him before thinking what the f
k am I doing.I'm too old.
theshrew said:
I wanted to turn Pro when I was 17 but my parents wanted me to carry on getting something to fall back on just in case it didn't work out ( fair point I suppose ) So I did my apprenticeship found beer and women and have never forgave them since lol
The words 'be a mechanic son job for life' will haunt me forever. Cheers Dad
If you were thinking of racing bikes, then their advice was spot on The words 'be a mechanic son job for life' will haunt me forever. Cheers Dad
It is quite amazing watching the pros ride, as others have said they just have unbelievable levels of commitment and balls the size of houses.
On an open day at Cadwell I was going round Coppice thinking 'this is a bit bloody quick' (knowing that it wasn't ACTUALLY quick, but it felt it to me) and Howie Mainwaring came round the outside of me like I was stood still and took his left hand off to say 'sorry' or 'thanks' or 'laters mate' and by the time I was at Charlies he was basically half way up Park straight.
I had a similar experience racing against Sam Bird (former Williams test driver and GP2 race winner I think) in a kart a few years ago. He came past me and I tagged on to him. We were in identical karts (yeah, he weighs about half of what I do, but I don't think that made a difference at all) and in every single corner he'd pull out a kart length or two into the apex and another through the exit... there was nothing I could do, if I'd gone in at his pace I would have been off. Because I tried once, and went off. And I'm actually pretty decent in a kart - much quicker than on a bike. Amazing to watch at close hand. It's another league of skill and talent.
Given the chance to get battered on track by these guys I'd take it every time! It's just great fun to watch.
On an open day at Cadwell I was going round Coppice thinking 'this is a bit bloody quick' (knowing that it wasn't ACTUALLY quick, but it felt it to me) and Howie Mainwaring came round the outside of me like I was stood still and took his left hand off to say 'sorry' or 'thanks' or 'laters mate' and by the time I was at Charlies he was basically half way up Park straight.
I had a similar experience racing against Sam Bird (former Williams test driver and GP2 race winner I think) in a kart a few years ago. He came past me and I tagged on to him. We were in identical karts (yeah, he weighs about half of what I do, but I don't think that made a difference at all) and in every single corner he'd pull out a kart length or two into the apex and another through the exit... there was nothing I could do, if I'd gone in at his pace I would have been off. Because I tried once, and went off. And I'm actually pretty decent in a kart - much quicker than on a bike. Amazing to watch at close hand. It's another league of skill and talent.
Given the chance to get battered on track by these guys I'd take it every time! It's just great fun to watch.
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