Talk to me about trail braking
Discussion
How many of you trail brake on track? I have started to slightly do this but after reading this article
http://www.visordown.com/advanced-riding/kneedown-...
maybe I should be doing it more??? what your thoughts on this???
http://www.visordown.com/advanced-riding/kneedown-...
maybe I should be doing it more??? what your thoughts on this???
t.From the lack of replies it seem that there aren't many people doing this, which surprises me.
I think it will take some balls to do it to that extreme, I do run SC, so the grip is there. I just need to get over the mental fear of tucking the front.
Does anybody here brake harder at the apex like the article suggests???
I think it will take some balls to do it to that extreme, I do run SC, so the grip is there. I just need to get over the mental fear of tucking the front.
Does anybody here brake harder at the apex like the article suggests???
I trail brake up to the apex but not to the levels of these guys from what I am reading, but tyres play a big part. When I was racing with a control tyre some years ago (basically a box standard Pirelli Diablo - not corsa, rosso...) I crashed quite a bit on the brakes took me until my second year in the series to realise where the limit was trail braking on these tyres.
Track orientated tyres you can trail brake much more, but I guess I don't have the cahuna's to push as much as Ron (obviously).
Track orientated tyres you can trail brake much more, but I guess I don't have the cahuna's to push as much as Ron (obviously).
mckeann said:
Definitely not. I think that was purely to show how much grip there is, it's not a valid technique to going faster. At the apex, you need to be rolling the throttle on, if your still on the brakes past the apex your mid corner and exit speed will suffer.
Yup completely agree
:I do but its a piss poor attempt, as I tip in im on the brakes but im probably releasing them gradually just after I tip it in, im certainly not getting anywhere near the apex.
McGuiness commented on this when riding with me, he pointed out I was hard as hell on the brakes going in, probably too hard, I needed to try and trail brake, just at 5 or 10 percent till I hit the apex, but as he said "I shouldn't be telling you this, because you only master it by coming off, you will crash at some point"
McGuiness commented on this when riding with me, he pointed out I was hard as hell on the brakes going in, probably too hard, I needed to try and trail brake, just at 5 or 10 percent till I hit the apex, but as he said "I shouldn't be telling you this, because you only master it by coming off, you will crash at some point"
I trail brake on the road in a super light weight 'why would you bother' sort of way.
I really want to brake harder as I turn in more - I know this is completely wrong...
I've not tried it on track yet.
BTW watching racers (WSB BSB etc) corner they don't look like they are letting off the brakes as they approach the apex - the distance between mudguard and fairing appears to stay constant. Can anybody who knows what they are doing say if this is correct?
I really want to brake harder as I turn in more - I know this is completely wrong...
I've not tried it on track yet.
BTW watching racers (WSB BSB etc) corner they don't look like they are letting off the brakes as they approach the apex - the distance between mudguard and fairing appears to stay constant. Can anybody who knows what they are doing say if this is correct?
Trail breaking on track makes natural sense and as you get faster you learn to weight up the front and trail the brakes up to or just before the apex.
On the road it usually done in a more casual way when you have open corners and not braking super hard.
The transition from bakes to throttle are a continually developing skill, well for me anyway.
On the road it usually done in a more casual way when you have open corners and not braking super hard.
The transition from bakes to throttle are a continually developing skill, well for me anyway.
Do you Guys really think about all this stuff while you're riding? 
I just ride.
ETA, I see the OP is talking about the track, so I'll STFU!
I don't see any relevance to this on the road. I'm more concerned at looking to see if that Guy at the give way is looking at me...
I just ride.
ETA, I see the OP is talking about the track, so I'll STFU!
I don't see any relevance to this on the road. I'm more concerned at looking to see if that Guy at the give way is looking at me...
Edited by mickrick on Friday 25th July 14:45
I once seen a trail braking master class from some old guy on a sv650.
the sun was out, it was the last good weekend of the season, for about 5 miles i was stuck behind this guy on a twisty busy section around callander
he'd pin it on the straights, brake into the corner, decide hes went far too fast then put the brakes on mid corner.
I nearly stuck my Daytona up his arse several times, so it can be done on the road, ok its not trail braking and I doubt that man is still alive but he got away with it that day.
go for it
the sun was out, it was the last good weekend of the season, for about 5 miles i was stuck behind this guy on a twisty busy section around callander
he'd pin it on the straights, brake into the corner, decide hes went far too fast then put the brakes on mid corner.
I nearly stuck my Daytona up his arse several times, so it can be done on the road, ok its not trail braking and I doubt that man is still alive but he got away with it that day.
go for it
BigHeartedTone said:
BTW watching racers (WSB BSB etc) corner they don't look like they are letting off the brakes as they approach the apex - the distance between mudguard and fairing appears to stay constant. Can anybody who knows what they are doing say if this is correct?
When you brake you compress the front suspension. When you turn in, you generate g force (centrifugal or centripical or something like that) which also compresses the suspension. If you don't trail brake at all, your suspension would go down, up, down and up in a corner as you brake, let off brake, corner, then straighten up. With trail braking, I try to hold the front end down on the brakes until I'm sufficiently into the corner fr the cornering forces to take over the job of compressing the fork. At that point I usually wimp out, but it seems the real pros keep the brake hard on for longer.
mckeann said:
When you brake you compress the front suspension. When you turn in, you generate g force (centrifugal or centripical or something like that) which also compresses the suspension.
Ok that makes sense.mckeann said:
If you don't trail brake at all, your suspension would go down, up, down and up in a corner as you brake, let off brake, corner, then straighten up. With trail braking, I try to hold the front end down on the brakes until I'm sufficiently into the corner fr the cornering forces to take over the job of compressing the fork. At that point I usually wimp out, but it seems the real pros keep the brake hard on for longer.
Yes they seem do. Watching the MotoGP inboards they don't seem to make constant speed/radius turns on 'maintenance throttle'. Revs continue to die to the apex (presumably they are trail braking too there) and then rise as they open the throttle from there. Presumably this is for 3 reasons.1. Bikes turn much better when they are slowing - reduced trail etc etc
2. V shaped turns create longer straights to put the 200 and whatever hp to good use.
3. Tracks don't actually have many corners that can be turned into constant speed (and therefore radius turns).
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