Testing sensor on R1
Discussion
bass gt3 said:
Very much doubt all the plugs would fail simultaneously.
can you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the ignition on??
you now need to figure out if it's fuel or ignition that's failing. try cranking it over with a good plug connected loosely to a lead and confirm spark. then check if the injectors are firing and fuel is being squirted in. if fuel is coming through check if its a powerful jet/spray or more like a dribble. if it won't start after a few days your fuel pressure regulator or fuel pump might be poked
Yep, I think I can hear the fuel pump prime but definately can hear the ex-up cycle.can you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the ignition on??
you now need to figure out if it's fuel or ignition that's failing. try cranking it over with a good plug connected loosely to a lead and confirm spark. then check if the injectors are firing and fuel is being squirted in. if fuel is coming through check if its a powerful jet/spray or more like a dribble. if it won't start after a few days your fuel pressure regulator or fuel pump might be poked
I'm thinking weak spark preventing start-up as the plugs have done a fair few miles ... ? - 20k iirc
Tonight, it is coming apart then...
Yazza54 said:
I'm with bass, all 4 plugs aren't just going to go kaput, then a few days later decide they're alright again etc etc.
Is it still putting lights on the dash when you crank ?
Nope - no ECM light at present ... battery has gone flat again so needs charging up before going further.Is it still putting lights on the dash when you crank ?
When this last happened I left the battery on charge and after a few attempts it fired straight up and was fine again. I'm wondering if it's possible the battery is dying. Sounds fine when turning over though.
I need to check the fuel pump is priming properly tonight when get home.
fergus said:
Normally if there's enough current to crank the starter, the bike should then run. ECUs are very sentivie to voltages though as the solenoids on the injectors won't then fire.
Could be a crank sensor, as without this the bike doesn't know where in the 4T cycle it is. This is more fundamental than the fuel or ignition circuits. I haven't read the whole thread, but depending upon which model R1 you have, the ECU has a built in diagnostic mode, all available via the dash, where you can check sensor voltages, etc on the fly. Have you tried this?
Yes, I've had that issue before with injectors not firing on my old R1 due to low battery voltages.Could be a crank sensor, as without this the bike doesn't know where in the 4T cycle it is. This is more fundamental than the fuel or ignition circuits. I haven't read the whole thread, but depending upon which model R1 you have, the ECU has a built in diagnostic mode, all available via the dash, where you can check sensor voltages, etc on the fly. Have you tried this?
If it was the crank sensor I would see a code error on the dashboard and there is nothing present at the moment.
Just looking through the service manual now.
Got home and shoved the battery on charge for couple hours ... Went back to the bike and tried to fire it up and the old 'code 11' error popped up again.
By this point had enough so ripped the bike to bits... Tested the voltage at the sensor plug properly as per yamaha service manual. It is within spec... Plugged it back in and checked voltage at battery.
Static 12.4v Ignition on 12.1v and on cranking drops down to 8-9v ... Not sure the cranking voltage should drop down that low but it sounds healthy turning over. Still wouldn't start.
Tried again a few mins later... Fired straight up. Just WHAT THE ACTUAL f
k!!!!
Turned it off... Starts fine.
So whilst the bike was in bits I pulled the plugs out... They are knackered.
I'm going to throw in new plugs and I'm tempted to throw a new battery just to rule both out.
Might as well check the resistances on the coils whilst I am there... Oh it needs new coolant as well now as had to drain the radiator.
Annoying that I planned to do all this over winter when do the valve clearances. Tempted to just pull it off the road now and do the whole lot.
By this point had enough so ripped the bike to bits... Tested the voltage at the sensor plug properly as per yamaha service manual. It is within spec... Plugged it back in and checked voltage at battery.
Static 12.4v Ignition on 12.1v and on cranking drops down to 8-9v ... Not sure the cranking voltage should drop down that low but it sounds healthy turning over. Still wouldn't start.
Tried again a few mins later... Fired straight up. Just WHAT THE ACTUAL f
k!!!! Turned it off... Starts fine.
So whilst the bike was in bits I pulled the plugs out... They are knackered.
I'm going to throw in new plugs and I'm tempted to throw a new battery just to rule both out.
Might as well check the resistances on the coils whilst I am there... Oh it needs new coolant as well now as had to drain the radiator.
Annoying that I planned to do all this over winter when do the valve clearances. Tempted to just pull it off the road now and do the whole lot.
bass gt3 said:
battery voltage seems a bit low tbh at 12.1 with ignition on. Ideally it wants to be around 13vdc+ otherwise things may not work when cranking.
a low battery could also be responsible for the spurious crank trigger fault codes as the ecu needs to see the correct voltage to trigger.
My thoughts as well chap... that was with the lights disconnected as well so around 11.9v although it is possible I had discharged it too much and it hadn't recovered. Either way I have no idea how old the battery is and given the readings are showing a worn battery I've purchased a new AGM battery to go in and will be delivered tomorrow.a low battery could also be responsible for the spurious crank trigger fault codes as the ecu needs to see the correct voltage to trigger.
New plugs are also going in this evening before I put it back together. They are overdue for sure.
theshrew said:
Fire in some new plugs, new plugs are always good.
Take the battery to get checked rather than chucking one on. Most garages / Parts places have a tester. It only takes a few seconds to do. Probably do it FOC anyway.
I doubt that coils will be the problem they normally start to go when hot rather than cold, probably wouldn't work at all rather than show a intermittent fault. It would be strange for them all to go down anyway. No harm in checking them while your in there anyway just for piece of mind.
With it bringing up the same fault all the time check the crank / cam sensor ( cant remember which it is ) You might have a faulty one, is the sensor and its pick up point clean, seated correctly and also check the plug sometimes you get a terminal that are not getting a good connection maybe pushed out when the plug is together.
It sounds to me if the battery is ok then its either the sensor, its wiring or maybe the immobiliser is faulty and simulating that fault code to show up.
Might be worth calling or a mail to Yam technical, you never know they might be able to give you some advice.
New plugs are going in... Take the battery to get checked rather than chucking one on. Most garages / Parts places have a tester. It only takes a few seconds to do. Probably do it FOC anyway.
I doubt that coils will be the problem they normally start to go when hot rather than cold, probably wouldn't work at all rather than show a intermittent fault. It would be strange for them all to go down anyway. No harm in checking them while your in there anyway just for piece of mind.
With it bringing up the same fault all the time check the crank / cam sensor ( cant remember which it is ) You might have a faulty one, is the sensor and its pick up point clean, seated correctly and also check the plug sometimes you get a terminal that are not getting a good connection maybe pushed out when the plug is together.
It sounds to me if the battery is ok then its either the sensor, its wiring or maybe the immobiliser is faulty and simulating that fault code to show up.
Might be worth calling or a mail to Yam technical, you never know they might be able to give you some advice.
I've bought a new battery anyway... it's another thing for me to rule out and given winter is round the corner it's certainly not going to hurt. The existing battery goes flat after a week or so anyway if left to its own devices.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the coils either - but they are out so worth checking within spec.
Cam sensor has been replaced and is seated properly and clean (this is me we are talking about lol) ... I've also confirmed wiring is fine as the voltage at the connector is within spec. Connector is clean and protected with ACF50 (don't have any electrical grease) ...
I've also confirmed immobiliser is working correctly as per service manual.
I'm 99% sure it's the battery
CoolHands said:
I may have missed it - have you fitted a new decent battery? (eg yuasa) If not that would be my number one suspicion.
Nope ... not yet but it's in process.IMHO I don't rate Yuasa batteries and they seem a bit overpriced. Gone for an AGM from Tayna which is being delivered tomorrow.
- it's green now Prof Prolapse said:
Assuming the battery doesn't sort it.
I said it on the other thread taking the piss but in all seriousness have you checked your ignition timing sensor?
Because if that isn't connected or is damaged it will just spin. That said I guess that's the same for most of the related sensors... I'm guessing you're open to random suggestions at this point though!
Like you say would apply to any sensor and the Yamaha is pretty intelligent with its onboard diagnostics to identify those issues.I said it on the other thread taking the piss but in all seriousness have you checked your ignition timing sensor?
Because if that isn't connected or is damaged it will just spin. That said I guess that's the same for most of the related sensors... I'm guessing you're open to random suggestions at this point though!
Well it runs... although a coil pack decided to throw a fit and log a code #33 error when changing the plugs. Must have been dirty contact as after cleaning and re-seating seems fine.
Di-electric grease to all the connector blocks to keep water / corrosion out. Old plugs were shot as expected ... I chucked in a new set of NGK CR9EK in which are ridiculously expensive for copper plugs ... In fact I can get iridium for same money! Daft...
Need to stick fresh coolant in and then put back together. Battery being delivered tomorrow morning and left to charge all day.
Di-electric grease to all the connector blocks to keep water / corrosion out. Old plugs were shot as expected ... I chucked in a new set of NGK CR9EK in which are ridiculously expensive for copper plugs ... In fact I can get iridium for same money! Daft...
Need to stick fresh coolant in and then put back together. Battery being delivered tomorrow morning and left to charge all day.
Hooli said:
For how long this time? 
Glad it's working.
Glad it's working.
TBH as soon as I started it up I could tell it was much happier... I suspect all these problems have been due to a tired battery. Not issues with sensors, etc... but I saw it as an opportunity to give it a thorough service and check all the loom / connectors and protect them which is worth doing on any bike over a few years old.
Gone are the days of a worn battery meaning it no longer turns the engine over... modern bikes are very fussy about their voltages required to start. Lesson learned.
bass gt3 said:
Now the battery is replaced, canyou check the voltage at the cam sensor during cranking/? It seems like it's being pulled very low and triggering the threshold alarm. Alternatively, check ALL the earth points disconnect,clean with electrical cleaner/fine grit paper and reconnect
I did check the voltage at the sensor coupling on Monday and it was fine. I'm pulling the bike apart tomorrow and checking voltage at ecu ... Will check all the earths whilst I am doing that... Annoyingly I need to drop radiator again to get at sensor!
Getting proper fed up with this bike now. It had better not be the ecu.
Yazza54 said:
So that's the camshaft pickup sensor code again.... Didn't you fit a new sensor already?
Maybe there's a wire in that loom frayed or something.
I reckon you are right ... As before it would eventually start. This time it refuses to fire at all so time to start checking the sub loom. Maybe there's a wire in that loom frayed or something.
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