Testing sensor on R1
Discussion
Today is rip the wiring loom apart ... Interestingly it looks like someone has been at part of the loom on left hand side of the radiator before ... So once I've tested the sensor I'm going there first...
Got a few mates coming over for beer and support also ... Several heads is better than one!
Got a few mates coming over for beer and support also ... Several heads is better than one!
Ok, so the bike is in bits ... I have completely stripped the front wiring loom off the front of the engine... This is the loom that plugs into the coils and cylinder identification sensor via a large plug. I've pulled back all the insulation to check for wire breaks, etc and it all looks fine.
Checking for voltage on the CIS as per manual and I get 4.6v ... (Although it's bloody fiddly holding the pins and cranking the bike over!) When crank on starter it doesn't seem to change voltage though as I thought it was supposed too or do you not see that at the coupling?
Not sure what to do next to be honest. Just about to go and have a look at ECU loom although given I'm getting a signal as the CIS makes me wonder if im wasting my time.
I'm seriously considering biting the bullet on a brand new CIS.
Checking for voltage on the CIS as per manual and I get 4.6v ... (Although it's bloody fiddly holding the pins and cranking the bike over!) When crank on starter it doesn't seem to change voltage though as I thought it was supposed too or do you not see that at the coupling?
Not sure what to do next to be honest. Just about to go and have a look at ECU loom although given I'm getting a signal as the CIS makes me wonder if im wasting my time.
I'm seriously considering biting the bullet on a brand new CIS.
bass gt3 said:
Thought you had bought and fitted a brand new cam sensor already? ???
and whilst you may be getting the correct voltage at the sensor coupling the sign or ground wires may be damaged or corroded. worth doing a continuity test on all the wires and manipulate the loom to see if there's an intermittent fault
It was a used item mate. Beginning he regret that now despite the cost of the sensor! and whilst you may be getting the correct voltage at the sensor coupling the sign or ground wires may be damaged or corroded. worth doing a continuity test on all the wires and manipulate the loom to see if there's an intermittent fault
I've followed the wires back to the ECU. They are immaculate ... Ive even pulled back the original sheath to ensure no breaks due to twist in loom.
Is there anyway to test sensor rather than just voltage readings as coupler?
I've also pulled the ECU and checked the pins.
CoolHands said:
Thanks for that... Live - 4.6v
Switched Lives - 4.6v
Now I thought the switched live would alternate between 0v and 5v?
On cranking it doesn't change. I can't check voltages with coupler connected as sealed connectors.
bass gt3 said:
when cranking you should see a variation in the trigger voltage. its going from 0vdc to 4.6vdc as the trigger teeth pass it. so even on a basic dvm you should see a slightly lower voltage as the motor cranks. although the true average would e 2.3vdc due to the slow reaction to the changes you should see irca 4 to 3.5 vdc. when you stop cranking the voltage should be zero or 4.6 depending on whether or not there's a trigger tooth facing the sensor.
if the trigger voltage is stable when cranking I'd be very suspicious of the sensor!
I don't have the old sensor unfortunately as after fixing the issue last time I stupidly threw the sensor away!if the trigger voltage is stable when cranking I'd be very suspicious of the sensor!
So we can only test the voltage at the coupler (with sensor disconnected) and the voltage is not changing on cranking at all.
bass gt3 said:
There should be a single constant 5vdc feed, a chassis/ecu ground and the switched 5vdc back to the ecu. do you have these???
Yep... Three wires from sensor. 5v feed, ground and switched 5v ... Edited by bass gt3 on Saturday 27th September 15:41
Both 5v and switched 5v are showing 4.6v in any state / condition. I don't think we are going to see trigger state of the switched 5v without the sensor actually being plugged in unless I cut into the wire physically which obviously is far from ideal.
I have just been to Loons to nick his CIS off his working track bike... Whilst there I measured voltage at coupler (ECU side) and got 4.98v ... I am about to test the CIS on my own bike and will then test voltage...
All test readings being done on loom from ecu to coupler ... I then spliced into loom just before the sensor but after the coupler and got 1.38v ...
All test readings being done on loom from ecu to coupler ... I then spliced into loom just before the sensor but after the coupler and got 1.38v ...
LoonR1 said:
I'd better get the working one back or all hell will break loose 
You are a legend ! Now it gets interesting ... Plugged sensor in... Turned over and still flashing '11' on dashboard so I gave the connector a wiggle whilst trying again and '11' goes out on dashboard... And the bike tries to start up (tank is off atm) ...
So disconnected sensor and measure voltage and we have exactly 5v (5.04v) at the coupler ...
So what reckon? Dodgy sensor? Bad coupler connection?
To be honest I want a permanent solution as it is such a pain to strip bike down to get to the loom... I have the ignition loom off the bike at moment ready for proper repair. I did think about replacing the loom but buying another used one could create more problems.
I used to race electric RC so my soldering is A1... Have no issues in that respect but if going to put new connector in then I need to find something locally... And ideally in next day or two...
Really odd how wiggling the connector made the bike fire to life and yet I can't replicate the fault again ... All the times I unplugged / plugged that connector too... It has me baffled. So I'm still a little apprehensive as to whether this is 100% the fault ...
One thing I will do if install connector is move the connector to somewhere easy to access in future... Just in case!
I used to race electric RC so my soldering is A1... Have no issues in that respect but if going to put new connector in then I need to find something locally... And ideally in next day or two...
Really odd how wiggling the connector made the bike fire to life and yet I can't replicate the fault again ... All the times I unplugged / plugged that connector too... It has me baffled. So I'm still a little apprehensive as to whether this is 100% the fault ...
One thing I will do if install connector is move the connector to somewhere easy to access in future... Just in case!
bass gt3 said:
I wouldn't solder the joint. Start by cleaning up the contacts and maybe bending the pins a fraction. This should improve the contact and prevent reoccurrence.
Alternatively, look at the Superseal 3 way connector. Get the male and female sides with boots and remake the connector, possibly extending the lead if it makes life easier. The Superseal are an excellent connector and should put an end to the problem.
But faults like this are by their nature a pig to find. Its very likely that the connection is loose/ intermittent going by the symptoms. It's always possible but 2 sensors with the same fault? Possible but unlikely.
If the pins are loose then bending them may only be a short term fix I suspect ... I've got a maplins down the road so might be able to find something in there tomorrow. Alternatively, look at the Superseal 3 way connector. Get the male and female sides with boots and remake the connector, possibly extending the lead if it makes life easier. The Superseal are an excellent connector and should put an end to the problem.
But faults like this are by their nature a pig to find. Its very likely that the connection is loose/ intermittent going by the symptoms. It's always possible but 2 sensors with the same fault? Possible but unlikely.
If use replacement connector I can't extend the loom either ... If anything it will shorten the loom unless I solder extra wiring into it... Again not ideal.
At present connector sits smack bang in middle of engine between coil backs and is impossible to reach without dropping the radiator ... If I could move it would save so much time if I need to test it again in future.
CoolHands said:
but bear in mind that if you replace the connector properly, it will work, and therefore won't need extending as you won't be needing to mess about with it any more iyswim
True, but I have just found a couple of loose pins in the main ignition loom connector as well. So I've bought another loom and will be butchering this one to give solid connections...
theshrew said:
That will probably be the problem then as it was intermittent.
That kind of fault is a fecking mere to find at least your heading in the correct direction.
Bought another loom last night .., will just wait for it to arrive, cleanup and install with di-electric grease.That kind of fault is a fecking mere to find at least your heading in the correct direction.
Ordered new air filter too as mine is a little dirty ...
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