Indian 'what's in the box' reveal - it's a NEW Scout

[RumpleFugly]

tvrolet said:

Like this?



OK, OK, it's not a 'Polaris' Indian, but I another branch of the Indian family tree.
No idea what's happened to that business now, but it used to be in Edinburgh...
http://www.p2r.se/mc/dakota4/

No, not like that

[ZesPak]

Press seems to love it:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-driv...
http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/08/05/2015-indian-s...

Now, for me, it looks like it has an easy job in competing to the HD, for it's superior tech, decent brakes & suspension,...

But, will it be able to compete in sales, no matter how good it is? For a lot of people, it's no HD.
For me that's part of the appeal, but I know a lot of people that, if they would ever get a bike, they'd want a HD.

I really hope Indian succeeds, the victory's look ace. The Chief, while not being my cuppa, looks very well finished and this Scout... looks amazing.
2016 will probably be new bike year for me, this will deffo be on the short list. In this matte silver finish:

Edited by ZesPak on Monday 18th August 09:57

[mrmaggit]

tvrolet said:

Russ T Bolt said:

Why are the FY 13/14 sales figures estimated, don't they know how many they sold ?

I'm sure they do - but not figures I have. I was going on the VIN numbers that are now coming through to the dealers. Remember the bikes were only revealed at Sturgis this time last year and didn't appear in the dealers until September I guess. There were none available to ride/demo in the UK until January IIRC? The first 1901 bikes were numbered (mine's #1717 ), and they pretty much sold out by December. I'd say it's mighty impressive to go from 0 units to 1901 units sold of a £20,000 product when all potential purchasers had to go on was the name, the looks, and the reputation for a quality build that Polaris and Victory brought to the party. THAT's what Victory did for Indian - I've never heard anyone have a bad word so say about a Victory; it's praise all the way. And that's what's given folks the confidence with Indian initially I'd say.

Russ T Bolt said:

My point was that Victory haven't had much of an impact on HD, why do you think it will be significantly different with Indian.

Heritage, Heritage and Heritage. Folks can argue as much as they like that the current bikes aren't true Indians (although in fairness, that's really only from the HD camp), but it says Indian on the tank (and on 36 other places...I counted ) who outside the motorcycling community has heard of Victory? Great bikes but zero heritage.

Why is heritage important? Well I can't have been alone in looking for my own chunk of heavyweight V-twin Americana. I was absolutely going to buy a Road King...in blue...hell I even bought a T-shirt with a blue Road King in advance of ordering. I was under no illusions that the Victory was a better bike, together with some of the Japanese cruisers. But I wanted proper American.

Then I saw the Indians just after the launch. The name had all the same kudos to me as Harley - more so in fact. My late dad has always talked of how he liked the Indians he'd come across that some of the American forces had; I know the history, I knew the brand, I'd seen The World's Fastest Indian

So without even swinging a leg across one I'd placed an order...with confidence in build quality coming pretty much exclusively from what Polaris had done with Victory.

If you're in the market for a bike like this then you're either just looking for a generic cruiser, in which case anything will do, or you're looking for 'an American V-twin'. And loads of folks are in the latter category. And despite being an 'American V-twin' Victory just didn't have the heritage. Indian does, and so pretty much every Indian sold isn't a lost sale of a Honda, Kawasaki, Ducati or whatever - most Indian sales are lost Harley sales.

So yes - I am a paid-up Indian fan-boy, but supported by the quality of the bikes. Park the Indian beside anything else (including HDs) and unless they're real out-and-out custom jobs it's the Indian that gets the attention. And the brand recognition from non-bikers is amazing.

I like Harleys, and if Indian hadn't launched the Chief last year I'd be riding one now. But I also like what Polaris have done with the Indian brand and of course the bikes, and I think it's a real wake-up call for HD. And unless HD pull something else out of the hat rather than parts-bin specials or different paint jobs then Indian is going to take a big part of their market in years to come...although from a purely selfish perspective I'd be happy to have he only Indian in town; I don't need to see any more on the roads.

I think its exciting times ahead if you are in to American motorcycles, with HD and Indian back in the market together. A bit like the American muscle-car revival I guess where after a few relatively stagnant years we've got Mustangs (OK, Pony car), Camaros and Challengers slugging it out. It can only be good, IF HD raise their game.

And so back to the Scout. It's a classic name with great recognition, and with the first ride reports starting to filter through it seems to be a quality bit of kit with good power, handling and manners.

Just out of interest, what mpg are you getting from the Chief? I ask because I had a test ride on a Vintage last Friday, and the Roadmaster is exactly what I'm looking for (couldn't get hold of a Chieftain to test, the Press have them). On the way home, worked out that the Vegas did as near 60mpg as makes no difference, and not much came past on the A1, but it was sodding uncomfortable after an hour at 70+ leptons.

[tvrolet]

mrmaggit said:

Just out of interest, what mpg are you getting from the Chief? I ask because I had a test ride on a Vintage last Friday, and the Roadmaster is exactly what I'm looking for (couldn't get hold of a Chieftain to test, the Press have them). On the way home, worked out that the Vegas did as near 60mpg as makes no difference, and not much came past on the A1, but it was sodding uncomfortable after an hour at 70+ leptons.

In the 40s MPG range. I've never seen it better than 48mpg (off the dash read-out), but never worse than 42mpg...although in fairness I don't look at it the whole time. I'm 99% sure the display is proper Imperial gallons and not US gallons as there's a Gallon option in the non-US configuration...and it ties-up with my back-of-fag-packet calculations. The tank is about 4.5 Imperial gallons and I can get 200 miles before it says low-fuel.

Not sure how much is left at that point as I've never ran it to empty, and about the only real pain on the bike is that the 'range left' display switches to 'Lo Fuel' once you're low. So when you don't really care it will happily say there's 187 miles left...but when it's real important and you want to know if you've a teaspoon or a cupful of fuel left it doesn't say the range. But then I've a car that's just the same so I guess it's a fairly common design.

How did you like the Chief Vintage? As I guess you know the motor and the running gear is the same as the Chieftain/Road Master, but they have a slightly steeper steering angle. With 'just' the standard screen on the Vintage there's no wind pressure at any speed (as I guess you found out) - but I found quite a lot of helmet buffeting (ooh er missus) at 70+...regulations permitting. I fitted the lower wind deflectors, which are fairly discrete on the Vintage, and it pretty much cured it. Regulations permitting bike and rider would be happy enough to sit at 3-figure-speeds until the fuel runs out. But an indicated 85 (where allowed) seems to be a pretty good compromise with no wind (I ride with a full face but no visor), and still some performance in reserve. I'd have to assume the Road Master would offer at least the same wind protection if not a whole lot more. But I do know some folks with Chieftains have also fitted the lower wind deflectors so maybe there's a helmet buffet issue at speed there too? I'd guess the lowers on the Road Master would negate their use though.

The ability to haul miles at decent speeds without physical effort is an unexpected bonus for me (and of course not unique to the Indian, but I've never had a bike with a barn-door screen before). Previously I would have planned routes to avoid motorways, but now I'm happy to set it on cruise and watch the miles tick by. It puts a lot more nice riding roads in reach if you can get to and from them quicker.

Coming from the Victory I wonder if you felt the 111 motor was a bit more, er, characterful...as on paper I'd guess the Victory motor is more sophisticated? And I guess the bike is a fair bit heavier too...but I think the Vintage certainly is quite agile for its size.

Edited by tvrolet on Tuesday 19th August 13:46

[mrmaggit]

tvrolet said:

In the 40s MPG range. I've never seen it better than 48mpg (off the dash read-out), but never worse than 42mpg...although in fairness I don't look at it the whole time. I'm 99% sure the display is proper Imperial gallons and not US gallons as there's a Gallon option in the non-US configuration...and it ties-up with my back-of-fag-packet calculations. The tank is about 4.5 Imperial gallons and I can get 200 miles before it says low-fuel.

Not sure how much is left at that point as I've never ran it to empty, and about the only real pain on the bike is that the 'range left' display switches to 'Lo Fuel' once you're low. So when you don't really care it will happily say there's 187 miles left...but when it's real important and you want to know if you've a teaspoon or a cupful of fuel left it doesn't say the range. But then I've a car that's just the same so I guess it's a fairly common design.

How did you like the Chief Vintage? As I guess you know the motor and the running gear is the same as the Chieftain/Road Master, but they have a slightly steeper steering angle. With 'just' the standard screen on the Vintage there's no wind pressure at any speed (as I guess you found out) - but I found quite a lot of helmet buffeting (ooh er missus) at 70+...regulations permitting. I fitted the lower wind deflectors, which are fairly discrete on the Vintage, and it pretty much cured it. Regulations permitting bike and rider would be happy enough to sit at 3-figure-speeds until the fuel runs out. But an indicated 85 (where allowed) seems to be a pretty good compromise with no wind (I ride with a full face but no visor), and still some performance in reserve. I'd have to assume the Road Master would offer at least the same wind protection if not a whole lot more. But I do know some folks with Chieftains have also fitted the lower wind deflectors so maybe there's a helmet buffet issue at speed there too? I'd guess the lowers on the Road Master would negate their use though.

The ability to haul miles at decent speeds without physical effort is an unexpected bonus for me (and of course not unique to the Indian, but I've never had a bike with a barn-door screen before). Previously I would have planned routes to avoid motorways, but now I'm happy to set it on cruise and watch the miles tick by. It puts a lot more nice riding roads in reach if you can get to and from them quicker.

Coming from the Victory I wonder if you felt the 111 motor was a bit more, er, characterful...as on paper I'd guess the Victory motor is more sophisticated? And I guess the bike is a fair bit heavier too...but I think the Vintage certainly is quite agile for its size.

Edited by tvrolet on Tuesday 19th August 13:46

I was guessing it would be in the 40's, I always get better mpg than average, must be 'cos I'm smoooooth. On a run I get 28+ out of my TVR Griffith 500, when most others struggle to beat 25, and still nothing passes me up to the wrong side of the speed limit. The most important thing on big tourers fuel wise isn't the tank size or mpg, it's range. I had two FXRT's and they would struggle to get much past 140 miles on a tank-full, which dropped like a stone on the Autobahns at over 85mph. You sit there in the "bubble", happy as Larry, then you realise your fuel is almost gone. No fun on a rainy Sunday night with no idea where the nearest petrol station is and you're 10 miles into reserve. Even more critical in the desert.

There is so much storage space on the Roadmaster, although the good thing with the FXRT's was the space for a helmet in both panniers, something neither the Roadmaster, Chieftain, Chief or any of the current range of H-D's can do. Luckily the top-box (or Tourpack) has room for two, both from the Roadmaster and the Electra Glide. The only thing is, the Roadmaster is going to be around £10,000 CHEAPER than the nearest H-D equivalent, by the time you've spent the harley tax to tag on all the stuff that the Roadmaster comes with as standard.

Up to the mid '90's I'd ridden every single Harley Model, and I've ridden a good few since. The nearest equivalent to the Chief I reckon is either the Heritage or the Road King, both of which are very good sellers for H-D, and IMHO, the Indian is better value than either. Ok, so the Road King is a couple of grand cheaper, and the Heritage a grand cheaper than that, but the thing is, you can see where the money has been spent on the Indian, you can see where the money has been saved on the H-D. But as a direct challenge, the Indian is in the next county as far as build quality, design, technology, and handling are concerned. It is a heavy bike, but carries (or disguises) the weight very well, it didn't take me long to be perfectly happy with it. As you found out, there is a fair bit of helmet buffetting, which is why I lean more towards the Chieftain/Roadmaster with their more aerodynamic fairings.

The Victory engine is a little more "revvy" than the 111, but both have a lot of stomp. Certainly a lot more than a standard H-D, and more than the standard "Stage 1" kit that H-D seems to think that every one of their products needs. Not so with the Indian. All it needs in my opinion is the option for a heel/toe gearchanger, as the reach for the gear lever for my 5ft 8 frame means there is a loading on the top of the foot/ankle, which would get tiring after a while. Otherwise, I can't think of anything else that you would need to spend any money on for the bike.

When I returned the bike to Freedom Motorcycles, (top lads, by the way) I remarked that it was similar to reports of the first Spitfire flight, when Mutt Summers allegedly said "Don't touch a single thing". It really is that good, straight from the crate.

Now if the Scout is as good, as reports seem to be indicating............

[tvrolet]

mrmaggit said:

The Victory engine is a little more "revvy" than the 111, but both have a lot of stomp. Certainly a lot more than a standard H-D, and more than the standard "Stage 1" kit that H-D seems to think that every one of their products needs. Not so with the Indian. All it needs in my opinion is the option for a heel/toe gearchanger, as the reach for the gear lever for my 5ft 8 frame means there is a loading on the top of the foot/ankle, which would get tiring after a while. Otherwise, I can't think of anything else that you would need to spend any money on for the bike.

All I 'needed' was the Fishtails which came with a stage 1 flash update, and a different tank logo Oh, and the wind deflectors. I couldn't think of anything else I'd want to add...but I do like the look of the round 'big sucker' air filter they've just released...so that's maybe the only other thing I would do to the bike.

I'm happy with just a toe shifter, but I see there is a heel shifter option from Indian now. I don't know what the 'extras' availability is like now but for a while there were shortage of some of the goodies as they were getting up to speed manufacturing. But I know there's a heel shifter option from Aeromach http://www.aeromachmfg.com/Indian_Motorcycle_s/41....

...and back on topic - as well as reading a few of the Scout reviews, which all seem real positive, I was talking to a guy who's had a test ride at Sturgis and he was mighty impressed.

Edited by tvrolet on Tuesday 19th August 20:43

[mrmaggit]

I am waiting till the Bike Show as I want to see what the red and black paint job looks like, because that's the colour scheme I currently would want my Roadmaster in. I also want to check for paint scuffing on the panniers on the Roadmaster, as I may fit the pannier top racks as a way of keeping clumsy boots away from the paintwork, for when pillions get on and off the bike. They tend to be less careful than owners!

Lorraine is keen to try a Scout, so we may end up with two Indians in the garage.

[TLandCruiser]

I'm going to buy one too, and due to my house move...the timing could not be better! I'm undecided between Indian Red or Silver Smoke, most likely indian red

[mrmaggit]

TLandCruiser said:

I'm going to buy one too, and due to my house move...the timing could not be better! I'm undecided between Indian Red or Silver Smoke, most likely indian red

Scout?

[TLandCruiser]

mrmaggit said:

Scout?

Yep the scout

edit- Just found a a video clip of the stock bike, sounds good too

http://youtu.be/miSOXPx47eo

Edited by TLandCruiser on Wednesday 20th August 22:44

[mrmaggit]

I honestly don't think that I have been more in anticipation of seeing a bike in the flesh since the Monster was launched.

[tvrolet]

Quite a good road test against pretty much all of the other cruisers in the [US] market.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/shootout-mo-c...

I admit to have never seen the Honda before and it looked really neat. Do they sell it in the UK? Never seen one. Quite liked the Guzzi too...

[ZesPak]

tvrolet]Quite a good road test against pretty much all of the other cruisers in the [US said:

market.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/shootout-mo-c...

I admit to have never seen the Honda before and it looked really neat. Do they sell it in the UK? Never seen one. Quite liked the Guzzi too...

If the Stateline is anything like the VT1300cx, it'll look great on paper and from a distance, but plastic trimmings will let it down in the flesh.
I haven't seen the Stateline though so I could be wrong. Price and quality will be great, reliability will probably be second to none, being a honda.

Edit, apparently the Stateline is the VT1300CR, which makes it look very closely related to the CX, so it'll be a safe bet the trimmings are similar.

Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 25th September 15:23

[bogie]

I don't get some of these US reviews as some of their observations dont tally with reality (as always) ....

Anyway, given the choice of that lot id still go for the Guzzi or the V-Rod ...of course it depends what you are after

actually I think some of the Victory models are more "authentic" than the Scout being air cooled big V-twins

the best thing about the Scout to me (other than it looks good) is the weight. Nearly 50Kg lighter than some of the others ...I guess thats how an 1130cc bike can be a "mid size" bike in the USA

[Wacky Racer]

mrmaggit said:

TLandCruiser said:

How do you think this will be compare to a Harley Davidson sportser? I think the scout looks beautiful but think the harley will make a nicer sound

If I was Harley, I would be VERY worried. Except for the cheaper cost of the Sportster (a-misnomer if ever there was one, they aren't sporty any more), from that the Scout beats it hands down. It also beats most of the cheaper H-D big twins.

Polaris aren't messing about, and if the build quality on my Vegas is similar to the current crop, they are built far better than Harleys too. And there's none of the "Harley Tax" to make the bike into what it should have been when it left the factory. In fact, if you take a current 1200 Sportster, by the time you've fixed everything, you've spent more than one of the Scouts costs anyway.

Can't wait to see one in the flesh.

Just wondered maggit?

In your opinion, what's weong with the current 1200 HD Sportster?

I had one around 1998 and it was fine, needed for nothing, except possibly a slightly larger fuel tank.

[mrmaggit]

Hi WR,

Just the normal stuff you have to do with all Harleys, hence "Harley Tax". Stage 1 (or 2), pipes, suspension, brakes, etc.

I think the journo's in the video missed out that the Dyna range is going to suffer from the Scout, not just the 1200 Sportsters.

I had two Sporties, a '77 XLCR and an '80 XLS, and had the use of an XLX for a couple of weeks, and have ridden the newer ones, albeit on test rides, and the early ones are a lot livelier (though worse handling) than the newer ones.

[2013BRM]

Willy G did an amazing job of resurrecting HD but I think he's run out of steam. IMO it began with the marketing, sure it reached out to a lot of people who wouldn't ordinarily considered HD but it ended up with HD aftershave and handcuffs ffs. Not much later the Harley Owners Group created bands of look alike Hells Angels with fake rockers and patches and fat ugly women. Then there was the customising scene, they missed it by a country mile and the likes of OCC became millionaires overnight, HD should have offered a blank canvas from the get go and allowed people to customise more than just the colour of the tank.
Choppers have died a death in the US now and Cafe Racers are the latest thing, HD will struggle to compete in that market so that leaves the VRod ( a bike I love btw) and their traditional offerings, which is right where Indian are aiming. I rode one of their latest offerings, a Street Bob or something and it left me cold, So, I agree, HD should be concerned