Motorcross Bike
Discussion
moanthebairns said:
Really looking to get into this, just had a look and there is hundreds of tracks for £15 a day!!!
so how much for gear? quality top end
how much for the bike? used or new, I know nothing about them what are the 675's and r1's of the mx world
what needs done maintenance wise? ive heard rebuilds of engines are almost weekly is that just rubbish or fact, for a guy who covers the basics on road and track bikes is it much more hands on?
It's cheap as chips £1500 will get you a good bike and £500 is plenty for some gear, I'd suggest a cheaper helmet as it'll need replacing a lot. so how much for gear? quality top end
how much for the bike? used or new, I know nothing about them what are the 675's and r1's of the mx world
what needs done maintenance wise? ive heard rebuilds of engines are almost weekly is that just rubbish or fact, for a guy who covers the basics on road and track bikes is it much more hands on?
Any 250 4T will scare you senseless for quite a while.
Engine rebuilds are important and mileage doesn't exist. It's how long since it was last rebuilt, measured in hours and not many of them either. That's where the cost is. You won't be able to ride it to a track either.
moanthebairns said:
how much for a rebuild and how many hours
http://www.elderfields.co.uk/workshop_2.htmlShould give you some idea - no idea if these prices are good nowadays or not, but this is the place I used to use when I were a lad (and couldn't/didn't want to do the work myself).
On that note, what are you like with a spanner? Most jobs you should be able to do yourself and are simple enough if you know your way around a socket set and a haynes manual...
moanthebairns said:
how much for a rebuild and how many hours
How long is a piece of string??Simple Pistons/Rings and small end can be done for under 100 quid, but if the big end is starting to go, or the mains, it'll get pricier, up to 300 quid if you're doing it yourself. splitting the crankcase means a full rebuild so new gaskets, crank seals and so on. barrel might need replating so that can run to 150 quid. To neglect them will mean either much bigger bills compared to the regular maintenance things or even a catastrophic failure.
A good trick is to put an hour meter on the bike once you've conducted a bit of work and base your inspections/maintenance from the hours run. If you're not going at World Class level, top ends can stay in good order for over 100 hours IF YOU USE TOP QUALITY OIL. The biggest killer is shyte oil followed by home made barrel porting and mates who know how to jet a 2T (and don't)
Yasbear3 said:
Hey sorry late reply,
My friends rent this area with a few acres, so I would practice there and there are fields,tracks etc etc
So a trials bike would be the best port of call?
You're getting some helpful advice here but it is somewhat concealed under the "do you know the first thing you're talking about" replies. You absolutely definitely do NOT want a TRIALS bike for what you are describing. No seat, 30mph-ish top end. See below.My friends rent this area with a few acres, so I would practice there and there are fields,tracks etc etc
So a trials bike would be the best port of call?
So:
On another almost identical thread recently CAPP0 said:
Common error but a trials bike and an MX/Enduro are completely different animals (see below) - about as similar as a scooter and a Fireblade
Whilst MX and Enduro may look broadly similar to the untrained eye, the MX bike, even if converted for road use, would not be a particularly useful or long-term prospect as the engines aren't designed for prolonged steady-state use. Enduro bikes are generally "softer" than MX, both in engine tune and rideability.
If it's a 125 you need and some off road use, you're probably best off with something like a DT125 if you're tall, or an XT125 on knobblies if you're not!
Trials bike:
MX Bike:
Enduro Bike:
The MX and Enduro bikes may look slightly similar but they're not - not in the way they ride, and the MX bike is not legal for use anywhere other than on private land. You *probably* could get a daytime MOT on an MX bike but you'd have to piss about fitting a horn and (I think) a brake light, so unless you're planning on training for competitive MX and nothing else it really really isn't worth the aggro.Whilst MX and Enduro may look broadly similar to the untrained eye, the MX bike, even if converted for road use, would not be a particularly useful or long-term prospect as the engines aren't designed for prolonged steady-state use. Enduro bikes are generally "softer" than MX, both in engine tune and rideability.
If it's a 125 you need and some off road use, you're probably best off with something like a DT125 if you're tall, or an XT125 on knobblies if you're not!
Trials bike:
MX Bike:
Enduro Bike:
I'm a little concerned about you referring to riding on "fields and tracks" - please don't be another one of the p1key chavs who rock up with an MX bike in a van, then proceed to rip around the (otherwise) legal green lanes, buzzing walkers and dogs, pissing every man jack off, and getting those of us who bother to do it properly and legally, tarred with the same brush. And you're not likely to "just get away with it", as the police are issued with bikes the same as the blue one above these days, and mostly they CAN ride better and faster than you, and they do like to spend weekends out on the trails looking for people who shouldn't be there. I've met them several times.
Lastly: TRIAL vs TRAIL - there isn't really any such thing as a TRAIL bike, other than in the same way that there is a road bike. A road bike could be a Harley, an R1 or a GS1200 - all completely different, all used on the road. A TRAIL bike is just a generic term for something used off road.
And in terms of routine maintenance, I used to clean the air filter after every meeting, change the oil/oil filter and new air filter after every three, other fluids (coolant) and spark plug every 5 or 6, and brakes as and when needed (doing brake fluid when replacing the pads).
On the two stroke MX bike I had, think engine rebuilds were once a season depending on how often the bike was actually used. On the four stroke I had after that, never even looked at rebuilding given the suggested maintenance schedule and how often I used it.
I realise that last comment isn't too helpful, but can't remember the service schedule suggested by the manual off the top of my head unfortunately. Sorry.
On the two stroke MX bike I had, think engine rebuilds were once a season depending on how often the bike was actually used. On the four stroke I had after that, never even looked at rebuilding given the suggested maintenance schedule and how often I used it.
I realise that last comment isn't too helpful, but can't remember the service schedule suggested by the manual off the top of my head unfortunately. Sorry.
Like mtb I've been interested in this for a while myself but also have no idea.
It would seem that enduro bikes are the ones to go for. So then, what should people be looking at. Can anyone be bothered to give us newbs some ideas on what models to look at in different price ranges, ie;
£0 - £1000
£1000 - £2000
£3000 - £4000
Out of interest, why does a modern 4t enduro bike need such regular rebuilds etc.
It would seem that enduro bikes are the ones to go for. So then, what should people be looking at. Can anyone be bothered to give us newbs some ideas on what models to look at in different price ranges, ie;
£0 - £1000
£1000 - £2000
£3000 - £4000
Out of interest, why does a modern 4t enduro bike need such regular rebuilds etc.
cramman said:
Like mtb I've been interested in this for a while myself but also have no idea.
It would seem that enduro bikes are the ones to go for. So then, what should people be looking at. Can anyone be bothered to give us newbs some ideas on what models to look at in different price ranges, ie;
£0 - £1000
£1000 - £2000
£3000 - £4000
Out of interest, why does a modern 4t enduro bike need such regular rebuilds etc.
I don't think an Enduro does need that level of rebuild. An MX equivalent will though It would seem that enduro bikes are the ones to go for. So then, what should people be looking at. Can anyone be bothered to give us newbs some ideas on what models to look at in different price ranges, ie;
£0 - £1000
£1000 - £2000
£3000 - £4000
Out of interest, why does a modern 4t enduro bike need such regular rebuilds etc.
cramman said:
Like mtb I've been interested in this for a while myself but also have no idea.
It would seem that enduro bikes are the ones to go for. So then, what should people be looking at. Can anyone be bothered to give us newbs some ideas on what models to look at in different price ranges, ie;
£0 - £1000
£1000 - £2000
£3000 - £4000
Out of interest, why does a modern 4t enduro bike need such regular rebuilds etc.
Many of them need regular maintenance because they are running competition-ready engines in a high state of tune (for their capacity). Also, oil capacity is only about 1L so the oil gets worked hard. My WR450 needs oil and air done every 10 hours (iirc). Some would say at least the air filter needs more frequent attention. On the other hand, I'm greenlaning not racing, so it's not like I've got it pinned flat out for 3-4 hours in an event. It would seem that enduro bikes are the ones to go for. So then, what should people be looking at. Can anyone be bothered to give us newbs some ideas on what models to look at in different price ranges, ie;
£0 - £1000
£1000 - £2000
£3000 - £4000
Out of interest, why does a modern 4t enduro bike need such regular rebuilds etc.
£0-1000 - won't buy you much worth having. Maybe, just maybe, an XR400. But at that price they'll be kickstart only and trust me, that will start to hurt when you're falling/stalling every 5 mins (which you will be).
£1000-2000 - plenty of choice here. If you're a complete beginner, a 450 can be a bit of a handful offroad. Sure the throttle goes both ways, but it can run away with you quite quickly. Even if you think it's not too much on road, it'll be completely different off. 4 strokes, look at Yam WRs and KTMs. 2 strokes - not my area but many seem to like GasGas, or KTM again.
Pricier than that - take your pick!
CAPP0 said:
Many of them need regular maintenance because they are running competition-ready engines in a high state of tune (for their capacity). Also, oil capacity is only about 1L so the oil gets worked hard. My WR450 needs oil and air done every 10 hours (iirc). Some would say at least the air filter needs more frequent attention. On the other hand, I'm greenlaning not racing, so it's not like I've got it pinned flat out for 3-4 hours in an event.
£0-1000 - won't buy you much worth having. Maybe, just maybe, an XR400. But at that price they'll be kickstart only and trust me, that will start to hurt when you're falling/stalling every 5 mins (which you will be).
£1000-2000 - plenty of choice here. If you're a complete beginner, a 450 can be a bit of a handful offroad. Sure the throttle goes both ways, but it can run away with you quite quickly. Even if you think it's not too much on road, it'll be completely different off. 4 strokes, look at Yam WRs and KTMs. 2 strokes - not my area but many seem to like GasGas, or KTM again.
Pricier than that - take your pick!
Cheers, off to trawl ebay. This could get expensive. £0-1000 - won't buy you much worth having. Maybe, just maybe, an XR400. But at that price they'll be kickstart only and trust me, that will start to hurt when you're falling/stalling every 5 mins (which you will be).
£1000-2000 - plenty of choice here. If you're a complete beginner, a 450 can be a bit of a handful offroad. Sure the throttle goes both ways, but it can run away with you quite quickly. Even if you think it's not too much on road, it'll be completely different off. 4 strokes, look at Yam WRs and KTMs. 2 strokes - not my area but many seem to like GasGas, or KTM again.
Pricier than that - take your pick!
Difficult one this.
If it were me, for a bag of sand, I'd be looking at a decent stroker enduro bike, possibly mx bike, but be careful of a 125 mx bike. They are cheap to fix, but they DO get ragged to death. A 250 mx bike, on the other hand, just doesn't get the same level of abuse, IMO, basically as you need to be f
king good to rode one at its near maximum!
How about a kdx200 Kawasaki enduro bike? Rightish price, cult following, more than capable?
Or, get a last of the steel frame cr250 Hondas. Bulletproof motor, decent lowish seat for a crosser, handled so nicely with the steel frame? Not many about, but you'd get a good one for less than a grand, and they ride brilliantly.
If it were me, for a bag of sand, I'd be looking at a decent stroker enduro bike, possibly mx bike, but be careful of a 125 mx bike. They are cheap to fix, but they DO get ragged to death. A 250 mx bike, on the other hand, just doesn't get the same level of abuse, IMO, basically as you need to be f
king good to rode one at its near maximum! How about a kdx200 Kawasaki enduro bike? Rightish price, cult following, more than capable?
Or, get a last of the steel frame cr250 Hondas. Bulletproof motor, decent lowish seat for a crosser, handled so nicely with the steel frame? Not many about, but you'd get a good one for less than a grand, and they ride brilliantly.
cramman said:
Cheers, off to trawl ebay. This could get expensive.
That's exactly how it starts. I've been riding road bikes for almost 20 years but had a few field bikes in my misspent youth. At the end of last year I sold my gsxr and put the money into an enduro bike. I'd had a notion for one for a while but as I hit 40 I decided it was now or never. I've got to say it's the most fun I've ever had on 2 wheels. I thought it would be no problem to adapt as I'd so much experience on road, add in my teenage days mixing it up on £100 smokers I thought I'd be a natural. I was wrong.
Unless you're a professional athlete it will be the most exhausting thing you've every done. In the winter the elements attack you and the very ground you walk/ride on is out to get you. You'll be sore for days after but all you'll be thinking about is when you can get back out and do it again. I still have a couple of road bikes but I know I'll always have an enduro too.
Back to the original point I hope you have some disposable income. None of your current biking gear is suitable, the stuff you will buy will only look new for less than five minutes and then look like a tramps cast off. The bikes are expensive for what they are and if you don't fancy servicing it yourself it will get very expensive. You also need mates to go out as you never know when you'll need one to lift a bike off if you. Well, my mate John knows,it's about evey 20 minutes.
MTB - if you're interested in going out with a few guys in the central belt there's loads of trails. Not sure if you'd have a thick enough skin though.
if you want a motocross bike that will be easy to use, power but controllable and will teach you to ride without having to worry about being in a power band or right gear etc then get a 250 4 stroke, something like Kawa 250 KXF, Honda CRF 250, Yam YZF 250 or KTM 250 SXF. They will have the same sort of power as a 125 2 stroke but far more usable. When I was learning (its a Very steep learning curve) I did it on a 2 stroke,there was so much to take in and in a 20 min heat (you will not be able to do a heat in one on your first atempt or many after) it gets a bit much and you'll find that if you were on a 4 stroke you'd be going faster and longer a lot quicker. The only benefit is the maintenance is very simple. 4 strokes might need a bit more work but service intervals are longer and you will learn how to ride a lot easier. MX is a whole body work out and after one day you will be aching all over, not to mentioned roosted and a big dent in your pride. Stick with it, its a lot of fun.
I went from motocross>enduro albeit doing a race on my kx 125 wasn't ideal but it was a lot of fun. More so than MX and a lot more riding. Luckily in S.Wales there is loads to ride. Enduro bikes are a different bike really where everyone in mx is on 4 strokes the majority are on 2 strokes in enduro (probably down to weight, cooling and ease of service) with lots of low down torque and softer suspension (unlike 2 stroke mx bikes!)
I went from motocross>enduro albeit doing a race on my kx 125 wasn't ideal but it was a lot of fun. More so than MX and a lot more riding. Luckily in S.Wales there is loads to ride. Enduro bikes are a different bike really where everyone in mx is on 4 strokes the majority are on 2 strokes in enduro (probably down to weight, cooling and ease of service) with lots of low down torque and softer suspension (unlike 2 stroke mx bikes!)
Edited by topsprayer on Tuesday 12th August 13:57
A trail bike (ttr250, xr250, xr400 etx) isnt an enduro bike though - doing enduro on a trail bike will leave you at the back of the pack, they are built for reliabilty, ease of use, long service intervals and typically have comfortable seats.
An enduro bike is quite the opposite.
Also maintenance is the key with dirt bikes, 10 hour oil changes hmmm not so sure - I dump the oil out every 2nd or 3rd ride and most rides are 8hours long so thats 16-24 hours. This is on a KTM RFS (Racing Four Stroke). 7000 miles original piston - no smoke.
As listed above it depends on what you want to do, mx = thrashing the tits out the bike and yourself for 20 minutes doing huge jumps and riding bermed corners, Enduro = woods, rivers, mountains, cross country type racing , Enduro cross is a mix of mx and enduro, extreme enduro is a bit like a normal enduro with trials stuff bunged in , then theres full on trials as explained earlier. There is also rallies but unless you are over 50, wear an open face helmet, smoke a pipe whilst riding and dont like falling off then you wont be interested in that.
Typically with enduro you can triple the cc to get the road equivalent so a 250cc dirt = 750cc road. Also you can 10x the mileage to get a good feel for how used the bike is.
Normal starting bike for enduro is (nowadays) a yamaha wr250f, these are great bikes, then progress to a 450 of any make pretty much when you find you are wringing the neck of the 250.
If you go MX then as above, only allowable at a track - mx is to rally cross as enduro is to rallying.
Playsatan said:
That's exactly how it starts.
I've been riding road bikes for almost 20 years but had a few field bikes in my misspent youth. At the end of last year I sold my gsxr and put the money into an enduro bike. I'd had a notion for one for a while but as I hit 40 I decided it was now or never. I've got to say it's the most fun I've ever had on 2 wheels. I thought it would be no problem to adapt as I'd so much experience on road, add in my teenage days mixing it up on £100 smokers I thought I'd be a natural. I was wrong.
Unless you're a professional athlete it will be the most exhausting thing you've every done. In the winter the elements attack you and the very ground you walk/ride on is out to get you. You'll be sore for days after but all you'll be thinking about is when you can get back out and do it again. I still have a couple of road bikes but I know I'll always have an enduro too.
Back to the original point I hope you have some disposable income. None of your current biking gear is suitable, the stuff you will buy will only look new for less than five minutes and then look like a tramps cast off. The bikes are expensive for what they are and if you don't fancy servicing it yourself it will get very expensive. You also need mates to go out as you never know when you'll need one to lift a bike off if you. Well, my mate John knows,it's about evey 20 minutes.
MTB - if you're interested in going out with a few guys in the central belt there's loads of trails. Not sure if you'd have a thick enough skin though.
not to worry I'm very thick skinned. I've been riding road bikes for almost 20 years but had a few field bikes in my misspent youth. At the end of last year I sold my gsxr and put the money into an enduro bike. I'd had a notion for one for a while but as I hit 40 I decided it was now or never. I've got to say it's the most fun I've ever had on 2 wheels. I thought it would be no problem to adapt as I'd so much experience on road, add in my teenage days mixing it up on £100 smokers I thought I'd be a natural. I was wrong.
Unless you're a professional athlete it will be the most exhausting thing you've every done. In the winter the elements attack you and the very ground you walk/ride on is out to get you. You'll be sore for days after but all you'll be thinking about is when you can get back out and do it again. I still have a couple of road bikes but I know I'll always have an enduro too.
Back to the original point I hope you have some disposable income. None of your current biking gear is suitable, the stuff you will buy will only look new for less than five minutes and then look like a tramps cast off. The bikes are expensive for what they are and if you don't fancy servicing it yourself it will get very expensive. You also need mates to go out as you never know when you'll need one to lift a bike off if you. Well, my mate John knows,it's about evey 20 minutes.
MTB - if you're interested in going out with a few guys in the central belt there's loads of trails. Not sure if you'd have a thick enough skin though.
I'd love that, I was looking online and there seems a lot of local tracks, I had a shot on a taster day, kids track then adults and f
king loved it. Seriously you couldn't get me off the thing. I'm young enough to get back right up after a fall and would rather do it now than later. whilst its a pipe dream just now in a month or so it wouldn't be with my payout. if its only a few grand to get going then I can see me going down that route.
only fear is going to view bikes and maybe getting landed with a lemon
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