MotoGP Brno

Author
Discussion

MM93

Original Poster:

227 posts

116 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
So, with another great weekend of racing coming up, who's your money on?

Yamaha, historically are great at Brno, and with Rossi & Lorenzo looking particulary strong at Indy, who knows what might happen?

For me though, whilst it's not his favorite track, I still think Marquez will push on for his 11th victory in as many races. Pedrosa could surprise a few with a strong performance after a disappointing Indy weekend, and we may see a fantastic three way battle for 2nd, or maybe even a four way battle for 1st!

My money is on Marquez, he seems unbeatable right now, but who knows? Either way, I can't wait for it to get started!

Lincsblokey

3,175 posts

154 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
Very interesting Press conference there with 3 heads of HRC, Yamaha Racing & Ducati Corse.

in a nutshell...

Honda Testing Michelins next month, yamaha no idea, ducati end sep/early oct.

Honda Proddy bike for 2015 will get the final spec 2014 factory repsol engines minus seamless shift.

The all new, all singing & dancing Ducati wont appear until Sepang tests next feb and Audi are involved in helping 'fix' the engine.

No decision yet on final spec of the 2016 onwards spec ecu & software, MSMA meeting later with Ducati, Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki to start this.

Also yamaha currently working on seamless downshift system like HRC's, yamaha project leader had 'no idea' when it would be ready to test/race

Nakamoto-san also confirmed talks with Jack Miller but nothing decided yet.

TheRealFingers99

1,996 posts

127 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
Lincsblokey said:
The all new, all singing & dancing Ducati wont appear until Sepang tests next feb and Audi are involved in helping 'fix' the engine.
A few engineering/reliability issues aside, the engine looks to be fine. The chassis, on the other hand..........

MM93

Original Poster:

227 posts

116 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
graphene said:
Marquez is fastest already, as usual. It seems as though he is in a race-mode every time he gets on the bike.
He doesn't give any less biggrin

Lincsblokey

3,175 posts

154 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
TheRealFingers99 said:
Lincsblokey said:
The all new, all singing & dancing Ducati wont appear until Sepang tests next feb and Audi are involved in helping 'fix' the engine.
A few engineering/reliability issues aside, the engine looks to be fine. The chassis, on the other hand..........
Cant agree, the engine is half the reason they cant get the chassis correct, and half the issue is the extra size the desmo system takes up.

Apriliaer said:
Heard Redding's factory bike for next year is far from a done deal and he will be on Nissins/Showa's if it happens.
Bautista has already been told he is gone, and Scott always knew if he got the big bike it would be on showa/nissins.

It's nothing he isnt already riding on to be fair, so one less thing to learn.

egor110

16,818 posts

202 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
Its not confirmed that reading will be on a Honda.

Fausto is pissed Honda have increased the price of the bikes and is supposed to be considering aprillia.

thatdude

2,654 posts

126 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
graphene said:
Marquez is fastest already, as usual. It seems as though he is in a race-mode every time he gets on the bike.
Correction:

he is in last-chance dash for pole position mode every time he gets on the bike

Slow is not a concept this young gentleman is familier with

Lincsblokey

3,175 posts

154 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
egor110 said:
Its not confirmed that reading will be on a Honda.

Fausto is pissed Honda have increased the price of the bikes and is supposed to be considering aprillia.
Thats just rumours mate, Aprilia are Buying PBM's slots via IRTA, Melandri & Bauitista/Kallio is the predicted line up, Scott WILL be on a honda, even if for some miracle reason he doesnt get the full fat one he has a two year honda contract so he will be on a proddy bike again.

TheRealFingers99

1,996 posts

127 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
Lincsblokey said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
Lincsblokey said:
The all new, all singing & dancing Ducati wont appear until Sepang tests next feb and Audi are involved in helping 'fix' the engine.
A few engineering/reliability issues aside, the engine looks to be fine. The chassis, on the other hand..........
Cant agree, the engine is half the reason they cant get the chassis correct, and half the issue is the extra size the desmo system takes up.
The bike seems fast enough!

While I've no access to that particular engine, historically Desmodromics have added next to nothing to the physical dimensions of Ducati engines.

Rat_Fink_67

2,309 posts

205 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
TheRealFingers99 said:
The bike seems fast enough!

While I've no access to that particular engine, historically Desmodromics have added next to nothing to the physical dimensions of Ducati engines.
From what I can gather the biggest problem with the Ducati lump is it's delivery, it makes masses of power that apparently comes in all at once like a sledgehammer; lots of riders (back to the Stoner days) have pleaded for improved delivery and smoothness. I was reading an article by Matt Oxley the other day and he made a comment that the Ducati way where the Desmosedici is concerned has always been to produce an engine that makes as much power as possible and then control it with electronics. As opposed to Honda and Yamaha where the emphasis has always been rideability, albeit at the sacrifice of a few ponies. If the traction control is cutting in, the bike isn't driving forwards. I found it interesting at Indianapolis that Dovi had a real hard time catching and passing Rossi down the straight as the bike obviously struggles to get the power down off of corner exits - by the time the horsepower advantage came in to play the Yamaha was already away, until he managed to get a decent slipstream.

egor110

16,818 posts

202 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
Lincsblokey said:
egor110 said:
Its not confirmed that reading will be on a Honda.

Fausto is pissed Honda have increased the price of the bikes and is supposed to be considering aprillia.
Thats just rumours mate, Aprilia are Buying PBM's slots via IRTA, Melandri & Bauitista/Kallio is the predicted line up, Scott WILL be on a honda, even if for some miracle reason he doesnt get the full fat one he has a two year honda contract so he will be on a proddy bike again.
Redding has also stated he's not interested in riding a production bike next year, if that's all Honda can offer i think he will walk.

The gressini aprillia thing could be just him applying pressure to Honda but at present nothing is signed/confirmed that gressini will remain with Honda next year.

curlie467

7,650 posts

200 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
I will plump for a MM win.
Want him to sew up the title so he will race moto2 and motogp in the one day. Even if it was just a pipe dream!

smilo996

2,754 posts

169 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
So, with another great weekend of racing coming up, who's your money on?

Honda testing michelins next month - plenty of money and engineers to be testing in the middle of the season. Unlike the other teams...

Honda Proddy bike for 2015 will get the final spec 2014 factory repsol engines minus seamless shift - therefore no realistic opportunity to get anywhere near the podium, thus preserving the three tier Honda strategy, all discreet in performance.

Fausto is pissed Honda have increased the price of the bikes - No surprise given the monopolistc situation and given that Hinda clearly shafted the purchasers of the production bikes for this year I am not suprised they are annoyed.

Yamahaha testing a seemless down shift. They ran no seemless shift last year and were far away from Honda, this year with seemless upshift a little closer but it is easy to see how close to the edge (again) Rossi and Lorenzo are). last race, Le Mans......
A&R did some noise tests to measure the difference in speed of regular gearbox and seemless box changes, the difference was significant and therefore the impact on laptimes because the quicker the shift the faster the engine can affect the rear wheel again.

Until Yamahaha introduce this I would guarantee they will not win a significant number of races. By which time Hinda will have adapted better to the new Michelin tyres because they will have 6 months more testing time.

No decision yet on final spec of the 2016 onwards spec ecu & software, MSMA meeting later with Ducati, Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki to start this - Hinda still holding out then.

Heard Redding's factory bike for next year is far from a done deal and he will be on Nissins/Showa's if it happens - so he is screwed.

In the USA last week the riders in each team were jostling for position with each other and with other riders. Rossi and Lorenzo, etc. Except for Repsol. Pedrosa has not beaten Marquez (or any team mates consistently since 2006) since the middle part of last year. He will never beat Marquez yet Honda have signed Pedroa for another 2 years.

When Doohan won 10 in a row, there were three other riders in his garage on the same Honda bike. There were 8 Honda's on the grid, says alot about 93' "records".

Doohan said of Marquez. he has been given the magic carpet ride. Clearly. I always wonder what would have happened if Simoncelli had not been killed. Proper racing mostl likely and no smile on Marquez face with Simoncelli in the same garage.

Yet again it was left to the 35 year old Rossi to inject some racing into last weekend's race. Even though he did not win.

In answer to the question:

So, with another great weekend of racing coming up, who's your money on? Honda because the money is on them.

As for Ducati. Apparently they will be making some significant changes to the frame and therefore geometry later in the season, which seems very sensible. Evolution, not revolution would be best. The new engine is significantly smaller than the current engine and therefore can be moved about more easily.
The problem with the current engine is that it compromises the geometry possibilities for the bike.

Lincsblokey

3,175 posts

154 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
smilo996 said:
So, with another great weekend of racing coming up, who's your money on?

Honda testing michelins next month - plenty of money and engineers to be testing in the middle of the season. Unlike the other teams...
Bullcrap, Yamaha and Ducati both have test teams running all year round, Ducati do more testing than anybody, all the teams have the oppurtunity to test in september, however yamaha want to test it with '16 spec ECU 7 Software.


smilo996 said:
Honda Proddy bike for 2015 will get the final spec 2014 factory repsol engines minus seamless shift - therefore no realistic opportunity to get anywhere near the podium, thus preserving the three tier Honda strategy, all discreet in performance.

Fausto is pissed Honda have increased the price of the bikes - No surprise given the monopolistc situation and given that Hinda clearly shafted the purchasers of the production bikes for this year I am not suprised they are annoyed.
Not quite correct, the seamless is shift is worth tops 3/10ths a lap, with the right rider onboard a 2014 RCV without seamless shift could still make podium.

WRT price, Honda kept the 2014 RCV factory bikes prices at 2013 levels so Gresini could run this year, all they have done is increased the price to include the seamless box and new electronics, something LCR paid for this year. Fausto has a choice, pay up or watch another team swallow his HRC contract, someone like MVDS could easily step into the fold at short notice given the opportunity.

The production bike isnt a disaster, its just Yamaha & ducati made it look bad by other means.

smilo996 said:
Yamahaha testing a seemless down shift. They ran no seemless shift last year and were far away from Honda, this year with seemless upshift a little closer but it is easy to see how close to the edge (again) Rossi and Lorenzo are). last race, Le Mans......
A&R did some noise tests to measure the difference in speed of regular gearbox and seemless box changes, the difference was significant and therefore the impact on laptimes because the quicker the shift the faster the engine can affect the rear wheel again.

Until Yamahaha introduce this I would guarantee they will not win a significant number of races. By which time Hinda will have adapted better to the new Michelin tyres because they will have 6 months more testing time.
Erm, Ducati were running seamless Up & Down shift before Honda had Upshift alone, and the honda still won. its worth around three tenths at a circuit where your always up & down the box. Motomatters did the noise tests by the way, and crutchlow commented on the article at the time (last year when he was still with Yamaha)

Yamaha are not testing the seamless downshift yet, its in development but Kats Nagasuka hasnt even had his mitts on it yet, so dont expect Jorge or Vr to be using it much before Valencia, As for the 'yamaha cant win without it' well im afraid thats BS, both Jorge & VR have stated puublicly there isnt a massive difference in the M1 & RCV, the difference is MM93, he is simply a cut above Pedrosa & Rossi, only Jorge can realistically take it to him, and now that he has got over the tyres being pulled from under him i fully expect he will do just that.


smilo996 said:
No decision yet on final spec of the 2016 onwards spec ecu & software, MSMA meeting later with Ducati, Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki to start this - Hinda still holding out then.
Wrong again, most of the arguing is over the software already written, funnily enough with more than a hint of Ducati Corse coding, Yamaha, Honda & Suzuki want a third party to write the coding from scratch with input from the start from all the MSMA firms, Ducati are not happy.

smilo996 said:
Heard Redding's factory bike for next year is far from a done deal and he will be on Nissins/Showa's if it happens - so he is screwed.
Scott is still asking for Ohlins/Brembo, and has been told he will get a test on it at some point this year.

smilo996 said:
In the USA last week the riders in each team were jostling for position with each other and with other riders. Rossi and Lorenzo, etc. Except for Repsol. Pedrosa has not beaten Marquez (or any team mates consistently since 2006) since the middle part of last year. He will never beat Marquez yet Honda have signed Pedroa for another 2 years.

When Doohan won 10 in a row, there were three other riders in his garage on the same Honda bike. There were 8 Honda's on the grid, says alot about 93' "records".

Doohan said of Marquez. he has been given the magic carpet ride. Clearly. I always wonder what would have happened if Simoncelli had not been killed. Proper racing mostl likely and no smile on Marquez face with Simoncelli in the same garage.

Yet again it was left to the 35 year old Rossi to inject some racing into last weekend's race. Even though he did not win.

In answer to the question:

So, with another great weekend of racing coming up, who's your money on? Honda because the money is on them.

As for Ducati. Apparently they will be making some significant changes to the frame and therefore geometry later in the season, which seems very sensible. Evolution, not revolution would be best. The new engine is significantly smaller than the current engine and therefore can be moved about more easily.
The problem with the current engine is that it compromises the geometry possibilities for the bike.
Simoncelli was over rated, he had a full factory RCV and couldnt keep with the front boys, he was a PR mans wet dream but never factory team material, most journos agree too, he would have been a race winner for sure, but not a championship winner and not even in same postcode as MM.

As for last weekend, weirdly enough i remember Lorenzo lapping on the same pace as MM once he got past VR, so really it was JL injecting some fizz.

Sorry about the longwinded post folks.

macdeb

8,492 posts

254 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
egor110 said:
Lincsblokey said:
egor110 said:
Its not confirmed that reading will be on a Honda.

Fausto is pissed Honda have increased the price of the bikes and is supposed to be considering aprillia.
Thats just rumours mate, Aprilia are Buying PBM's slots via IRTA, Melandri & Bauitista/Kallio is the predicted line up, Scott WILL be on a honda, even if for some miracle reason he doesnt get the full fat one he has a two year honda contract so he will be on a proddy bike again.
Redding has also stated he's not interested in riding a production bike next year, if that's all Honda can offer i think he will walk.

The gressini aprillia thing could be just him applying pressure to Honda but at present nothing is signed/confirmed that gressini will remain with Honda next year.
If not a decent Honda then Redding deserves Smiths seat. yes
Purleeez don't say he's gonna miss out on a top [ish] slot through bad timing. yikes

joema

2,644 posts

178 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
As much as it saddens me I don't think simmo would have been up there with Marquez. Race winner yes but I don't think he had enough to regularly beat the usual top 4 let alone get ahead of Marquez.

Marquez to win.

Yams 2 and 3

I'm glad Bautista is off a factory bike. He has showed absolutely nothing of what he achieved in 250's. Just hope they give redding a chance and not some upstart from moto 2.


moto_traxport

4,235 posts

220 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
Lincsblokey said:
Sorry about the longwinded post folks.
No worries. It's why I sold you that Impreza in Thetford. hehe

Someone needs the enthusiasm to sort the wheat from the chaff.

egor110

16,818 posts

202 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
joema said:
As much as it saddens me I don't think simmo would have been up there with Marquez. Race winner yes but I don't think he had enough to regularly beat the usual top 4 let alone get ahead of Marquez.

Marquez to win.

Yams 2 and 3

I'm glad Bautista is off a factory bike. He has showed absolutely nothing of what he achieved in 250's. Just hope they give redding a chance and not some upstart from moto 2.
I don't even think he'd be a race winner.

He was a great personality but he'd at best be in the pack fighting for 5-7th position, sadly we'll never find out.

Tell you what though i bet he'd take Marquez out and get him into trouble wink

Lincsblokey

3,175 posts

154 months

Friday 15th August 2014
quotequote all
moto_traxport said:
Lincsblokey said:
Sorry about the longwinded post folks.
No worries. It's why I sold you that Impreza in Thetford. hehe

Someone needs the enthusiasm to sort the wheat from the chaff.
You could have told me the turbo was duff and it was a ringer though ffs rofl

macdeb

8,492 posts

254 months

Saturday 16th August 2014
quotequote all
The only time bautista looks impressive is when it's around contract time.