Discussion
bass gt3 said:
Although I can't fully agree. I would suspect that MM's poor (by him) showing yesterday was down to a mechanical issue/tyre problem. Especially as the crew were all over his rear tyre when he came in. His body language showed his disappointment but that's to be expected, he's a racer who wants to win and knows he can. He's not there for the runners up prize.
However, it proves that everyone has bad days and the rest of the field capitalised superbly. But as we have seen 10 previous times this season MM is just that bit better on a like for like machine. 10 wins on the bounce is no fluke. Yes, Dani did well but I think next race normal service will be resumed. If MM is the new benchmark then its going to take new blood to take the fight to him. To be to be best you must beat the best which is exactly what Jorge and Casey did when VR was the pinnacle of the sport.
Absolutely agree with what you say. But MM has benefited from a perfect package this year, until yesterday. The mental resilience at this level is something else, and I'm glad the other 3 still showed that they are still worthy winners despite having always lost this year to MM. We have often speculated that it will be interesting to see how MM performs on a less than perfect machine, a period of 'coming 2nd', or after an injury like the others have prevailed through. To me, only then will we see how great he really is. However, it proves that everyone has bad days and the rest of the field capitalised superbly. But as we have seen 10 previous times this season MM is just that bit better on a like for like machine. 10 wins on the bounce is no fluke. Yes, Dani did well but I think next race normal service will be resumed. If MM is the new benchmark then its going to take new blood to take the fight to him. To be to be best you must beat the best which is exactly what Jorge and Casey did when VR was the pinnacle of the sport.
Dare2Fail said:
A few things:-
- If it's all about being skill full whilst looking death in the eye then surely that would mean that McGuinness and M Dunlop are currently the best riders in the world and could take it to MM and Lorenzo? The old GPs and modern GPs are so different to each other if is practically the equivalent of comparing rally drivers to F1 drivers and picking 'the greatest'.
- What's with the downer on current fans? You don't think that people have been having this discussion since the second generation of bike racers came along? It exists in pretty much every sport and is just human nature.
I've been the one saying all along that it's impossible to call anyone the GOAT as I see it as being disrespectful to other eras. Not only has machinery changed, so have the conditions, dangers, competition, training, funding and gawd knows what else.- If it's all about being skill full whilst looking death in the eye then surely that would mean that McGuinness and M Dunlop are currently the best riders in the world and could take it to MM and Lorenzo? The old GPs and modern GPs are so different to each other if is practically the equivalent of comparing rally drivers to F1 drivers and picking 'the greatest'.
- What's with the downer on current fans? You don't think that people have been having this discussion since the second generation of bike racers came along? It exists in pretty much every sport and is just human nature.
I don't have a downer on current fans. I have a downer on people who've watched MotoGP for a handful of years and then claim someone they're watching is better than riders who I have a huge respect for from other eras, eras that maybe aren't as well publicised.
Personally I can't remember anyone claiming that any rider was the Greatest Of All Time before someone gave Rossi that name? Previously it was usually the best of an era, which is pretty straightforward but obviously not always agreed!
Lincblokey
Unable to let your fictional account of Honda's fortunes go unanswered. Apologies for the space needed.
Lincsblokey: "Bullcrap, Yamaha and Ducati both have test teams running all year round, Ducati do more testing than anybody, all the teams have the oppurtunity to test in september, however yamaha want to test it with '16 spec ECU 7 Software"
That is what the factory teams said themselves during the press conference.
Ducati had to go open because of the restrictions on testing. So how can it be therefore they have teams of people out testing all year round. They may be able to test the endurance of components but they are not out testing continually.
This was one of the restrictions put in place. Given the amount of issues Ducati has on its plate then will testing 2016 Michelins really be at the top of the list? If unlimited testing was real then how come Ducati will not be delivering the new bike until 2015 now?
The new tyre testing is also restricted. Yamaha and Ducati stating that they would not be starting as soon as Honda.
Lincsblokey "Fausto is pissed Honda have increased the price of the bikes"
The Production bikes were lacking in features that were supposed to be on the bikes foe 2014.
Bautista's bike is shod with Nissin and Showa. The hardware and support being virtually free to allow them to break into MotoGP with Honda's help.
If your arguement is valid then the bikes would be more expensive each and every year and Honda would actually charge the price necessasry to cover the cost of the bike. In racing, both those arguements are invalid.
Lincsblokey "Not quite correct, the seamless is shift is worth tops 3/10ths a lap", with the right rider onboard a 2014 RCV without seamless shift could still make podium.
So tell me when was the last time a satelite Honda ever made the podium and consistently made any podiums?
A satelite Honda has made it onto once each year for the past three years. Yet Honda have won the manufactuers for the past three years and will win it again this year.
"WRT price, Honda kept the 2014 RCV factory bikes prices at 2013 levels so Gresini could run this year, all they have done is increased the price to include the seamless box and new electronics, something LCR paid for this year. Fausto has a choice, pay up or watch another team swallow his HRC contract, someone like MVDS could easily step into the fold at short notice given the opportunity".
Are you joking. The Gresini bikes. Bautista's is running Honda supplier Nissin and Showa forks so the price of that one is significantly less because Showa and Nissin are providing the components and support for free in order to get experience.
Lincsblokey "The production bike isnt a disaster, its just Yamaha & ducati made it look bad by other means".
Well how can that be the case given Honda are top of the manufactuers table again. How could they take the winning bike and make it less competitive?
Ask Redding whether he is happy and thinks the performance / price of his bike is as per LCR for example. He is running a Production bike and those running these bikes have already complained. Even the very diplomatic Hayden was annoyed Honda did not provide the bikes they said they would and reckoned they weree about 20mph down on top speed alone.
Lincsblokey "Erm, Ducati were running seamless Up & Down shift before Honda had Upshift alone, and the honda still won. its worth around three tenths at a circuit where your always up & down the box. Motomatters did the noise tests by the way, and crutchlow commented on the article at the time (last year when he was still with Yamaha) read the article for"
Agreed that motomatters did the test, not that it matters as the entire article was published in A&R.
Are you comparing the performnce of the RCV with the GP13 and saying that because Ducati had a seemless cluctch they should be comparable?
The Ducati has been 30 secs a race off the pace since 2008. Yamahaha have been much closer.
Why is it that Rossi specifically mentioned the deficit that downshift deficit and the consequences just this weekend, if it is not relevant.
How far behind Honda have the Yamahaha's been 3/10 of a second per lap or less perhaps.
Lincsblokey "Yamaha are not testing the seamless downshift yet, its in development but Kats Nagasuka hasnt even had his mitts on it yet"
Actually Yamahaha stated they had no idea when it would be available.
Lincsblokey "the difference is MM93, he is simply a cut above Pedrosa & Rossi, only Jorge can realistically take it to him, and now that he has got over the tyres being pulled from under him i fully expect he will do just that".
So what happened this weekend? Pedro controlled the entire race and the gap between him and Lorenzo. Rossi qualified in 7th but mananged 3rd. he got past MM becasuse of MM not because of Rossi.
Linkblockey: "As for the 'yamaha cant win without it' well im afraid thats BS, both Jorge & VR have stated puublicly there isnt a massive difference in the M1 & RCV"
So why did Pedros say that he was surprised about Yamaha's pace this weekend. <THis would presume it has significantrly improved.
Why did Rosii specifically mention again the lack of seemless downshifts?
If this was the cae why did Pedros come first and throughout the race manage the gap between him and Lorenzo?
Lincsblokey "Wrong again, most of the arguing is over the software already written, funnily enough with more than a hint of Ducati Corse coding, Yamaha, Honda & Suzuki want a third party to write the coding from scratch with input from the start from all the MSMA firms, Ducati are not happy".
It is well known that unlike then other manufactuers Honda developes it own software. The others are using Bosch or MM. They have publically and previously tried to block the spec ecu because of this siting trickle down.
It is also well known that Honda are able to to spend more. Their history in the sport clearly shows this.
Honda were apoplectic when Ducati requested extra functions as they were allowed to do under the approved rules before MM released the final pre season software update.
This weekend Honda again tried to pour cold water on the idea of cost savings by making comments about indicvidual savings not adding up to savings in total.
Ducati unhappy? Given their progress and the support of Audi (Bosch) and access to MM that comment is pulp fiction.
Lincsblokey "Scott is still asking for Ohlins/Brembo, and has been told he will get a test on it at some point this year".
Why if this is the case why is Redding being linked to Pramac and stated again, this weekend that the Honda deal was by no means done?
Why would Honda pull the plug on Nissin and Showa in MotoGP seeing as they are both key suppliers to Honda. Or will someone else get Bautista's bike and Redding get another one?
Quote: "Redding not expecting factory-spec Honda for 2015"
Lincsblokey "Simoncelli was over rated, he had a full factory RCV and couldnt keep with the front boys, he was a PR mans wet dream but never factory team material, most journos agree too, he would have been a race winner for sure, but not a championship winner and not even in same postcode as MM.
Really. In 2010 on a non factory RCV he came fifth, no other satelite Honda rider has done better.
He gave Gilera its first 250 world championship whilst Marquez was swanning about on the best bike (again) because he is good, Spanish and supported by Repsol.
Clearly more erratic but also alble to do more with less, something we have never seem MM do.
In 125 MM was on the bike. In 250 he had the entire garage to himself (as he does now). Doohan had 2/3 other riders beside him on the exact same bike.
Becuase he was good, Dorna and Repsol needed a Spanish winner. This continues now with the resigning of Pedrosa, the magic caqrpet given to him after the PR disaster of Stoner leaving.
Not suggesting that Simoncelli would win as many championships as MM because he is too erratic. However, if in the same garage as MM then it is absolutely clear MM would, not be that successful, largely ignored and certainly feel the pressure, unlike Simoncelli.
As for journos not rating him "To watch Marco Simoncelli race was to realize how great MotoGP could be"
"Not Marco Simoncelli. “Super Sic” still made riding a motorcycle look like an art. In contrast to the others’ slot-car predictability, Simoncelli would use the entire racetrack. He often chose the most impossible race line, then made it stick, creating his own daring, beautiful trajectory around the track. Other riders barely moved from behind their Perspex bubbles" Much like MM. MotoGp needs character, Dorna know it and MM is the Roger Federar of MotoGP.
Lincsblokey "As for last weekend, weirdly enough I remember Lorenzo lapping on the same pace as MM once he got past VR, so really it was JL injecting some fizz".
Well who was it that got off the line first in the previous race?
Who was it that stated clearly several races ago the way to beat MM and then got on with doing it?
Who was it that got in front of MM for part of the last race? It was not Lorenzo.
Who is it that is pushing his team mate and currently ahead in the championship and has 7 podiums this season to 4 for Lorenzo. I like Lorenzo but it is Rossi who has been really trying.
Did Lorenzo lap at a consistently similar pace as Pedro this race and win it?
longwinded it was. Anyway Moto3 was epic as usual. Moto2 predictable and MotoGP better because MM forgot that the corners were different.
Unable to let your fictional account of Honda's fortunes go unanswered. Apologies for the space needed.
Lincsblokey: "Bullcrap, Yamaha and Ducati both have test teams running all year round, Ducati do more testing than anybody, all the teams have the oppurtunity to test in september, however yamaha want to test it with '16 spec ECU 7 Software"
That is what the factory teams said themselves during the press conference.
Ducati had to go open because of the restrictions on testing. So how can it be therefore they have teams of people out testing all year round. They may be able to test the endurance of components but they are not out testing continually.
This was one of the restrictions put in place. Given the amount of issues Ducati has on its plate then will testing 2016 Michelins really be at the top of the list? If unlimited testing was real then how come Ducati will not be delivering the new bike until 2015 now?
The new tyre testing is also restricted. Yamaha and Ducati stating that they would not be starting as soon as Honda.
Lincsblokey "Fausto is pissed Honda have increased the price of the bikes"
The Production bikes were lacking in features that were supposed to be on the bikes foe 2014.
Bautista's bike is shod with Nissin and Showa. The hardware and support being virtually free to allow them to break into MotoGP with Honda's help.
If your arguement is valid then the bikes would be more expensive each and every year and Honda would actually charge the price necessasry to cover the cost of the bike. In racing, both those arguements are invalid.
Lincsblokey "Not quite correct, the seamless is shift is worth tops 3/10ths a lap", with the right rider onboard a 2014 RCV without seamless shift could still make podium.
So tell me when was the last time a satelite Honda ever made the podium and consistently made any podiums?
A satelite Honda has made it onto once each year for the past three years. Yet Honda have won the manufactuers for the past three years and will win it again this year.
"WRT price, Honda kept the 2014 RCV factory bikes prices at 2013 levels so Gresini could run this year, all they have done is increased the price to include the seamless box and new electronics, something LCR paid for this year. Fausto has a choice, pay up or watch another team swallow his HRC contract, someone like MVDS could easily step into the fold at short notice given the opportunity".
Are you joking. The Gresini bikes. Bautista's is running Honda supplier Nissin and Showa forks so the price of that one is significantly less because Showa and Nissin are providing the components and support for free in order to get experience.
Lincsblokey "The production bike isnt a disaster, its just Yamaha & ducati made it look bad by other means".
Well how can that be the case given Honda are top of the manufactuers table again. How could they take the winning bike and make it less competitive?
Ask Redding whether he is happy and thinks the performance / price of his bike is as per LCR for example. He is running a Production bike and those running these bikes have already complained. Even the very diplomatic Hayden was annoyed Honda did not provide the bikes they said they would and reckoned they weree about 20mph down on top speed alone.
Lincsblokey "Erm, Ducati were running seamless Up & Down shift before Honda had Upshift alone, and the honda still won. its worth around three tenths at a circuit where your always up & down the box. Motomatters did the noise tests by the way, and crutchlow commented on the article at the time (last year when he was still with Yamaha) read the article for"
Agreed that motomatters did the test, not that it matters as the entire article was published in A&R.
Are you comparing the performnce of the RCV with the GP13 and saying that because Ducati had a seemless cluctch they should be comparable?
The Ducati has been 30 secs a race off the pace since 2008. Yamahaha have been much closer.
Why is it that Rossi specifically mentioned the deficit that downshift deficit and the consequences just this weekend, if it is not relevant.
How far behind Honda have the Yamahaha's been 3/10 of a second per lap or less perhaps.
Lincsblokey "Yamaha are not testing the seamless downshift yet, its in development but Kats Nagasuka hasnt even had his mitts on it yet"
Actually Yamahaha stated they had no idea when it would be available.
Lincsblokey "the difference is MM93, he is simply a cut above Pedrosa & Rossi, only Jorge can realistically take it to him, and now that he has got over the tyres being pulled from under him i fully expect he will do just that".
So what happened this weekend? Pedro controlled the entire race and the gap between him and Lorenzo. Rossi qualified in 7th but mananged 3rd. he got past MM becasuse of MM not because of Rossi.
Linkblockey: "As for the 'yamaha cant win without it' well im afraid thats BS, both Jorge & VR have stated puublicly there isnt a massive difference in the M1 & RCV"
So why did Pedros say that he was surprised about Yamaha's pace this weekend. <THis would presume it has significantrly improved.
Why did Rosii specifically mention again the lack of seemless downshifts?
If this was the cae why did Pedros come first and throughout the race manage the gap between him and Lorenzo?
Lincsblokey "Wrong again, most of the arguing is over the software already written, funnily enough with more than a hint of Ducati Corse coding, Yamaha, Honda & Suzuki want a third party to write the coding from scratch with input from the start from all the MSMA firms, Ducati are not happy".
It is well known that unlike then other manufactuers Honda developes it own software. The others are using Bosch or MM. They have publically and previously tried to block the spec ecu because of this siting trickle down.
It is also well known that Honda are able to to spend more. Their history in the sport clearly shows this.
Honda were apoplectic when Ducati requested extra functions as they were allowed to do under the approved rules before MM released the final pre season software update.
This weekend Honda again tried to pour cold water on the idea of cost savings by making comments about indicvidual savings not adding up to savings in total.
Ducati unhappy? Given their progress and the support of Audi (Bosch) and access to MM that comment is pulp fiction.
Lincsblokey "Scott is still asking for Ohlins/Brembo, and has been told he will get a test on it at some point this year".
Why if this is the case why is Redding being linked to Pramac and stated again, this weekend that the Honda deal was by no means done?
Why would Honda pull the plug on Nissin and Showa in MotoGP seeing as they are both key suppliers to Honda. Or will someone else get Bautista's bike and Redding get another one?
Quote: "Redding not expecting factory-spec Honda for 2015"
Lincsblokey "Simoncelli was over rated, he had a full factory RCV and couldnt keep with the front boys, he was a PR mans wet dream but never factory team material, most journos agree too, he would have been a race winner for sure, but not a championship winner and not even in same postcode as MM.
Really. In 2010 on a non factory RCV he came fifth, no other satelite Honda rider has done better.
He gave Gilera its first 250 world championship whilst Marquez was swanning about on the best bike (again) because he is good, Spanish and supported by Repsol.
Clearly more erratic but also alble to do more with less, something we have never seem MM do.
In 125 MM was on the bike. In 250 he had the entire garage to himself (as he does now). Doohan had 2/3 other riders beside him on the exact same bike.
Becuase he was good, Dorna and Repsol needed a Spanish winner. This continues now with the resigning of Pedrosa, the magic caqrpet given to him after the PR disaster of Stoner leaving.
Not suggesting that Simoncelli would win as many championships as MM because he is too erratic. However, if in the same garage as MM then it is absolutely clear MM would, not be that successful, largely ignored and certainly feel the pressure, unlike Simoncelli.
As for journos not rating him "To watch Marco Simoncelli race was to realize how great MotoGP could be"
"Not Marco Simoncelli. “Super Sic” still made riding a motorcycle look like an art. In contrast to the others’ slot-car predictability, Simoncelli would use the entire racetrack. He often chose the most impossible race line, then made it stick, creating his own daring, beautiful trajectory around the track. Other riders barely moved from behind their Perspex bubbles" Much like MM. MotoGp needs character, Dorna know it and MM is the Roger Federar of MotoGP.
Lincsblokey "As for last weekend, weirdly enough I remember Lorenzo lapping on the same pace as MM once he got past VR, so really it was JL injecting some fizz".
Well who was it that got off the line first in the previous race?
Who was it that stated clearly several races ago the way to beat MM and then got on with doing it?
Who was it that got in front of MM for part of the last race? It was not Lorenzo.
Who is it that is pushing his team mate and currently ahead in the championship and has 7 podiums this season to 4 for Lorenzo. I like Lorenzo but it is Rossi who has been really trying.
Did Lorenzo lap at a consistently similar pace as Pedro this race and win it?
longwinded it was. Anyway Moto3 was epic as usual. Moto2 predictable and MotoGP better because MM forgot that the corners were different.
graphene said:
I give you 7/10 in this debate, having deducted points for failing to write 'Marquez' and 'magneti marelli' where appropiate.
I agree, also no GOAT references ..... good, but could do better 
Any sweepstakes on how long its takes the fella from Lincs to get his calls to Honda answered and come back with another of his truly inspiring 'insider' retorts ??
;-)
Chipchap said:
If you honestly believe that MM will "take a dive" as it were, you are all bonkers. He has openly said that now in his 2nd year he will try to win but if this is not possible he will finish in the best position possible.
Honda could not take the gamble that Pedrosa would deliver and dope MM93 as it were. Not ever HRC are there to win and MM is their best hope of that.
Once the title is wrapped up then perhaps we may see some team shenanigans but until then MM wants to win or at worst accumulate points.
I think a young 21yr old Marquez would have to do whatever Mr. Nakamoto San says....Honda aren't going to lose the Constructors championship or the riders championship off the back of one race whether Pedrosa or anybody else won it or not now are they as Honda and Marquez are so far ahead.....anyways even if Marquez failed to finish the next 2 races Pedrosa won them he would still be behind by a fair way and the rest even further and that's unlikely to happen.....Yamaha would need a miracle this year to beat the HondasHonda could not take the gamble that Pedrosa would deliver and dope MM93 as it were. Not ever HRC are there to win and MM is their best hope of that.
Once the title is wrapped up then perhaps we may see some team shenanigans but until then MM wants to win or at worst accumulate points.
Brno MotoGP final Monday test times.
Camier still getting quicker an Abraham fastest production Honda!
1. ˄ Marc Marquez ESP Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 1m 55.411s [Lap 54/65]
2. ˅ Jorge Lorenzo ESP Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1) 1m 55.566s +0.155s [45/52]
3. ˅ Dani Pedrosa ESP Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 1m 56.014s +0.603s [23/38]
4. = Aleix Espargaro ESP NGM Forward Racing (Forward Yamaha) 1m 56.173s +0.762s [17/52]
5. = Valentino Rossi ITA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1) 1m 56.446s +1.035s [27/63]
6. = Bradley Smith GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1) 1m 56.451s +1.040s [54/60]
7. = Pol Espargaro ESP Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)* 1m 56.502s +1.091s [54/61]
8. = Stefan Bradl GER LCR Honda MotoGP (RC213V) 1m 56.519s +1.108s [26/51]
9. = Alvaro Bautista ESP Go&Fun Honda Gresini (RC213V) 1m 56.806s +1.395s [28/66]
10. = Yonny Hernandez COL Pramac Racing (Desmosedici) 1m 56.988s +1.577s [19/43]
11. = Michele Pirro ITA Ducati Test Rider (Desmosedici) 1m 57.375s +1.964s [58/71]
12. = Karel Abraham CZE Cardion AB Motoracing (RCV1000R) 1m 57.659s +2.248s [43/44]
13. = Scott Redding GBR Go&Fun Honda Gresini (RCV1000R)* 1m 57.772s +2.361s [54/56]
14. = Leon Camier GBR Drive M7 Aspar (RCV1000R) 1m 58.179s +2.768s [30/36]
15. = Hiroshi Aoyama JPN Drive M7 Aspar (RCV1000R) 1m 58.327s +2.916s [33/41]
16. = Alex De Angelis RSM NGM Forward Racing (Forward Yamaha) 1m 58.759s +3.348s [26/57]
17. = Mike Di Meglio FRA Avintia Racing (Avintia)* 1m 59.662s +4.251s [33/43]
18. = Loris Capirossi ITA Various Bikes 2m 0.649s +5.238s [5/6]
19. = Kenny Noyes USA Avintia Racing (Avintia) 2m 3.442s +8.031s [23/23]
Camier still getting quicker an Abraham fastest production Honda!
1. ˄ Marc Marquez ESP Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 1m 55.411s [Lap 54/65]
2. ˅ Jorge Lorenzo ESP Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1) 1m 55.566s +0.155s [45/52]
3. ˅ Dani Pedrosa ESP Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 1m 56.014s +0.603s [23/38]
4. = Aleix Espargaro ESP NGM Forward Racing (Forward Yamaha) 1m 56.173s +0.762s [17/52]
5. = Valentino Rossi ITA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1) 1m 56.446s +1.035s [27/63]
6. = Bradley Smith GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1) 1m 56.451s +1.040s [54/60]
7. = Pol Espargaro ESP Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)* 1m 56.502s +1.091s [54/61]
8. = Stefan Bradl GER LCR Honda MotoGP (RC213V) 1m 56.519s +1.108s [26/51]
9. = Alvaro Bautista ESP Go&Fun Honda Gresini (RC213V) 1m 56.806s +1.395s [28/66]
10. = Yonny Hernandez COL Pramac Racing (Desmosedici) 1m 56.988s +1.577s [19/43]
11. = Michele Pirro ITA Ducati Test Rider (Desmosedici) 1m 57.375s +1.964s [58/71]
12. = Karel Abraham CZE Cardion AB Motoracing (RCV1000R) 1m 57.659s +2.248s [43/44]
13. = Scott Redding GBR Go&Fun Honda Gresini (RCV1000R)* 1m 57.772s +2.361s [54/56]
14. = Leon Camier GBR Drive M7 Aspar (RCV1000R) 1m 58.179s +2.768s [30/36]
15. = Hiroshi Aoyama JPN Drive M7 Aspar (RCV1000R) 1m 58.327s +2.916s [33/41]
16. = Alex De Angelis RSM NGM Forward Racing (Forward Yamaha) 1m 58.759s +3.348s [26/57]
17. = Mike Di Meglio FRA Avintia Racing (Avintia)* 1m 59.662s +4.251s [33/43]
18. = Loris Capirossi ITA Various Bikes 2m 0.649s +5.238s [5/6]
19. = Kenny Noyes USA Avintia Racing (Avintia) 2m 3.442s +8.031s [23/23]
kin' English FFS. you rode a great race but sound a complete knob, please stop it.
Fookin' 'ell! 
Chipchap said:
Redding & Camier will have an almighty ding dong if Leon gets to stay on the RCV for Silverstone. He has done himself a lot of good with his level headed approach to learning a Moto GP bike.
Confirmed Camier will be on the bike for Silverstone.http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/207784/1/camier-k...
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff