Using a sports bike for touring.
Discussion
I'm with Podman - I too have used a Renntec rack with a Givi plate attached to it. Perfect.
Mine were done on 1999 and 2001 R1s (only mod were extra bolts through a crossmember under the seat) and on my 2007 R1.
The older R1s were spot on but the crummy cast rear subframe on the '07 cracked and broke at the tail on a tour round northern europe. Had to have it welded up. Be a dead giveaway should the bike ever turn up (it was stolen).
I've got an F4 now, and like ChipChap I'm down to using a rucksack (some Berghaus thing). I can manage a week without too much bother. I actually rang up to get a Ventura system for that trip only to have the woman quote me 8 weeks turnaround from NZ. So I didn't bother.
Mine were done on 1999 and 2001 R1s (only mod were extra bolts through a crossmember under the seat) and on my 2007 R1.
The older R1s were spot on but the crummy cast rear subframe on the '07 cracked and broke at the tail on a tour round northern europe. Had to have it welded up. Be a dead giveaway should the bike ever turn up (it was stolen).
I've got an F4 now, and like ChipChap I'm down to using a rucksack (some Berghaus thing). I can manage a week without too much bother. I actually rang up to get a Ventura system for that trip only to have the woman quote me 8 weeks turnaround from NZ. So I didn't bother.
For any kind of distance touring, hard luggage is really the only option. Clip-on-clip-off in a few seconds, waterproof, no flapping around, safely secure.
I laugh when I use the channel tunnel and see guys riding sports bikes with all manner of soft, ill-fitting bags lashed up with bungees, cords, cargo nets and invariably the whole lot is lop-sided. As soon as they ride off everything is flapping/bouncing around, a complete mess. I've tried soft 'luggage' before but the hard luggage options now available are so much better and easier to use that it's now all I use. It even looks so much better than the ill-fitting soft bags.
I laugh when I use the channel tunnel and see guys riding sports bikes with all manner of soft, ill-fitting bags lashed up with bungees, cords, cargo nets and invariably the whole lot is lop-sided. As soon as they ride off everything is flapping/bouncing around, a complete mess. I've tried soft 'luggage' before but the hard luggage options now available are so much better and easier to use that it's now all I use. It even looks so much better than the ill-fitting soft bags.
As Podman suggests, get a Rentec rack any way. Not so much to fit a top box but maybe somewhere to stash waterproofs handy but more important the rack will give some good points for securing tailpacks etc.
I see there's various 'sac' type bags now, might be worth looking at camping or boat suppiers for something cheaper than Kreiga - you can always double bag stuff in a bin ban inside what ever you choose.
Used to have a GSXR1000K2 - was a great bike for covering distances, often 2 up with throw-overs, tank bag & kit bag on rack. I would even say it's comfier than the Hayabusa as it has more leg room:
Oh Silver993tt - my soft luggage fell off many times in 2500 miles killing me each time -
You'll be surprised what you can carry even on inappropriate bikes:
Not sure if the lowering kit is upsetting the dynamics on your's though putting weight further back?
I see there's various 'sac' type bags now, might be worth looking at camping or boat suppiers for something cheaper than Kreiga - you can always double bag stuff in a bin ban inside what ever you choose.
Used to have a GSXR1000K2 - was a great bike for covering distances, often 2 up with throw-overs, tank bag & kit bag on rack. I would even say it's comfier than the Hayabusa as it has more leg room:
Oh Silver993tt - my soft luggage fell off many times in 2500 miles killing me each time -
You'll be surprised what you can carry even on inappropriate bikes:
Not sure if the lowering kit is upsetting the dynamics on your's though putting weight further back?
Edited by graham22 on Thursday 28th August 09:54
Edited by graham22 on Thursday 28th August 10:03
Silver993tt said:
For any kind of distance touring, hard luggage is really the only option. Clip-on-clip-off in a few seconds, waterproof, no flapping around, safely secure.
I laugh when I use the channel tunnel and see guys riding sports bikes with all manner of soft, ill-fitting bags lashed up with bungees, cords, cargo nets and invariably the whole lot is lop-sided. As soon as they ride off everything is flapping/bouncing around, a complete mess. I've tried soft 'luggage' before but the hard luggage options now available are so much better and easier to use that it's now all I use. It even looks so much better than the ill-fitting soft bags.
Depends if it will fit - hence my very clever and intricate packing and the use of a decent sized rucksack. You're also stuffed if there are underseat pipes. Or bodywork to scratch.I laugh when I use the channel tunnel and see guys riding sports bikes with all manner of soft, ill-fitting bags lashed up with bungees, cords, cargo nets and invariably the whole lot is lop-sided. As soon as they ride off everything is flapping/bouncing around, a complete mess. I've tried soft 'luggage' before but the hard luggage options now available are so much better and easier to use that it's now all I use. It even looks so much better than the ill-fitting soft bags.
I'm not riding some godawful looking tourer or "adventure" bike, no matter how practical they are. I don't have a beard and will wait til I'm sixty or so
.Dog Star said:
Depends if it will fit - hence my very clever and intricate packing and the use of a decent sized rucksack. You're also stuffed if there are underseat pipes. Or bodywork to scratch.
I'm not riding some godawful looking tourer or "adventure" bike, no matter how practical they are. I don't have a beard and will wait til I'm sixty or so.
Hey I am nearly 60. No beard, no hard luggage, no sensible shoes or "slacks" just my hard as nails MV and my hooligan Speed Triple 1050 to keep me young and daft.I'm not riding some godawful looking tourer or "adventure" bike, no matter how practical they are. I don't have a beard and will wait til I'm sixty or so
.Chipchap said:
Hey I am nearly 60. No beard, no hard luggage, no sensible shoes or "slacks" just my hard as nails MV and my hooligan Speed Triple 1050 to keep me young and daft.
I was actually hoping to reel in a bearded, sports-tourer riding IAM member, not a similar man of taste with an MV The only thing I would say about soft luggage, is that in my experience the rear wheel tends to throw muck all over the inside - so if it's raining it'll be horrible when you reach your destination. You really can't beat hard luggage as far as keeping stuff clean and dry is concerned.
I've got a Baglux tank bag for daily commuting. A Renntec rack & some bungee straps rack should I need to carry something large home like a parcel, and a Givi rack for touring.
I've seen people bolt Givi plates onto Renntec racks, but I'm not entirely convinced they are strong enough?. I guess it's a neater solution though.
I've got a Baglux tank bag for daily commuting. A Renntec rack & some bungee straps rack should I need to carry something large home like a parcel, and a Givi rack for touring.
I've seen people bolt Givi plates onto Renntec racks, but I'm not entirely convinced they are strong enough?. I guess it's a neater solution though.
Dog Star said:
I'm not riding some godawful looking tourer or "adventure" bike, no matter how practical they are. I don't have a beard and will wait til I'm sixty or so .
What's using hard luggage got to do with age? or even in fact the type of bike you ride? I've had \ ZZR1400/ZX12R/Yamahar1 but moved on to try different things. In doing so I've learned that hard bags are actually better than soft for any kind of distance touring. I've also got a set of Kriege, used them twice but the hassle of all the straps/buckles/hooks when you try to link 3 bags together simply isn't worth it..You shot yourself in the foot by being so discriminatory by saying "I'm not riding some godawful looking tourer or "adventure" bike" because it shows you don't have the mind to try a new approach, a new experience or anything outside your own life bubble.
Silver993tt said:
hat's using hard luggage got to do with age? or even in fact the type of bike you ride? I've had \ ZZR1400/ZX12R/Yamahar1 but moved on to try different things. In doing so I've learned that hard bags are actually better than soft for any kind of distance touring. I've also got a set of Kriege, used them twice but the hassle of all the straps/buckles/hooks when you try to link 3 bags together simply isn't worth it.
You shot yourself in the foot by being so discriminatory by saying "I'm not riding some godawful looking tourer or "adventure" bike" because it shows you don't have the mind to try a new approach, a new experience or anything outside your own life bubble.
You make me giggle. You shot yourself in the foot by being so discriminatory by saying "I'm not riding some godawful looking tourer or "adventure" bike" because it shows you don't have the mind to try a new approach, a new experience or anything outside your own life bubble.
Just to throw my 2p in the mix, GSXRs are great tourers 
Took mine through France and Italy in July, 2800 miles in eight days, all weathers, great fun. Riding position, the previous comment about stomp grips and using your legs to take the strain off your arms is the best suggestion, worked for me.
I had Oxford tailpack, Knox rucksack for valuable/docs, and a small tank bag for toll tickets and bottle of water etc. If you need to carry a tent as well I think the Renntec idea is good too, I was fortunate in having cheap digs with friends down there.
Took mine through France and Italy in July, 2800 miles in eight days, all weathers, great fun. Riding position, the previous comment about stomp grips and using your legs to take the strain off your arms is the best suggestion, worked for me.I had Oxford tailpack, Knox rucksack for valuable/docs, and a small tank bag for toll tickets and bottle of water etc. If you need to carry a tent as well I think the Renntec idea is good too, I was fortunate in having cheap digs with friends down there.
Ventura luggage systems by Motohaus are awesome bits of equipment for any but especially for the more limited available spaces on a sports bike for touring duties. I have done at least two Euro. trips a year over the last ten years and from a Suzuki RF900, '98 R1, '04 Blade , '08 Blade, RSV4Factory and now S1000rr, all with the same bag/s and only had to buy the different L-brackets for differing bikes, I now have two "PackRacks" which fortunately have served various bikes.
Travelling solo, you face the big bag inwards, better centre of gravity and balance and you simply do not know you are carrying luggage - pillion use can face it outwards where it overhangs the rear plate area more, less desirable but fine and the bags can be combined over time 1 big with 1 small or have seen some with two big zipped together. Great durability and weatherproof, but always aided by just packing into doubled black binbags inside - off you go, I even leave the L-barackets on the bike as they don't look too bad and would give a little bit of possible crash/topple protection in the rear seat unit area they would cover...
Over fast bumpy ,jumpy ,wheely happy terrain no problems, and on fast mile-crunching straights it sits pretty well behind your body,not like a big sail flapping in the breeze - top kit - well, well tested I assure you , hope this may be of some use to you.
Travelling solo, you face the big bag inwards, better centre of gravity and balance and you simply do not know you are carrying luggage - pillion use can face it outwards where it overhangs the rear plate area more, less desirable but fine and the bags can be combined over time 1 big with 1 small or have seen some with two big zipped together. Great durability and weatherproof, but always aided by just packing into doubled black binbags inside - off you go, I even leave the L-barackets on the bike as they don't look too bad and would give a little bit of possible crash/topple protection in the rear seat unit area they would cover...
Over fast bumpy ,jumpy ,wheely happy terrain no problems, and on fast mile-crunching straights it sits pretty well behind your body,not like a big sail flapping in the breeze - top kit - well, well tested I assure you , hope this may be of some use to you.
Silver993tt said:
You shot yourself in the foot by being so discriminatory by saying "I'm not riding some godawful looking tourer or "adventure" bike" because it shows you don't have the mind to try a new approach, a new experience or anything outside your own life bubble.
He's probably winding you up, because every time he sees you post it's usually on to make smug comments about people on sports bikes.
Silver993tt said:
You shot yourself in the foot by being so discriminatory by saying "I'm not riding some godawful looking tourer or "adventure" bike" because it shows you don't have the mind to try a new approach, a new experience or anything outside your own life bubble.
And he's gone and landed one!(Actually I've had plenty of such bikes - including Givi'd up Tigers, ZX10, Super Teners, ZZR11 to name a few. I must have been going through a slipper wearing phase, drinking halves of mild and I'd have grown a beard if I could. (Actually it was so I could put ladies on the back. The present Mrs DS has her own bike)).
Edited by Dog Star on Friday 29th August 08:26
As you’ve suggested in your original post, the key to covering distance on any bike is to be comfortable. That applies to your state of mind as much as your physical situation.
Any bike can cope with touring if you are comfortable with its and your abilities and limitations. I’ve toured with people who have ridden what, on paper, are completely inappropriate bikes with the most extreme probably being the chap who did a 10 day trip through France to Northern Spain and back on a Ducati 888. We were doing over 300 miles per day, mostly off motorways, yet he was the one that would arrive at the hotel each night, drop his luggage off, then go for an hours ride to explore the local roads.
Likewise, I’ve known people with full dress tourers struggle to do more than 250, mostly motorway, miles each day.
If the position you are in when you ride your bike is currently even slightly uncomfortable then using it for touring will simply emphasize and magnify that discomfort. Make whatever changes you need to make (from adjusting lever positions through changing bars and foot rests to changing the bike for a different one) to get to a point where you can comfortably ride for over 2 hours/130 miles and not feel that having to do the same again is going to be a chore.
Secondly, make sure that any and all luggage you add is stable and secure but also lets you get on, ride and get off the bike without the requirement for significant contortion. Worrying that you luggage may fall off or that you don’t know how you’re going to get off the bike without dropping it when you come to a stop will make every mile pretty unpleasant. I personally like tank bags and panniers as they put the weight in the best place on the bike and do the least (for me) to interfere with the dynamics of the bike or my riding. Likewise, I dislike top boxes or large bags mounted on rear racks as they put weight and non-aerodynamic objects in exactly the worst place. I also avoid anything that I need to carry while riding, such as a rucksack, as it limits my movement and what starts out as a little extra weight on wrists and back can end up as a very uncomfortable extra load by the end of a ride. But, find what best works for you.
Next, choose your routes carefully and have alternatives in mind. While motorways are boring, they can be fast and efficient. There’s little joy in riding on a mountain road when it’s pissing with rain and cold, your already two thirds of the way through the day and you still have over half your journey to do. If, for whatever reason, things aren’t working for you on the “scenic” roads then knowing where you can easily switch routes to something boring but efficient can stop a journey becoming a nightmare.
Finally, stopping and resting a lot may sound like a good idea but you are not reducing the remaining distance while you’re stood stationary worrying about how much further it is. Definitely stop and rest if and when you need to but turning your first and second 10 minute stops into 25 minutes each just means you either have a half hour longer day than planned or have no time for stops later in the day when you really are staring to flag. I also find that thinking about the fact that I still have XXX miles left to do means that stopping is not a relaxing experience and, instead, just increases the stress.
Whatever you do, make sure you enjoy the experience as riding new and different roads as part of a bike tour can be one of the most fun things you can do on a bike.
Any bike can cope with touring if you are comfortable with its and your abilities and limitations. I’ve toured with people who have ridden what, on paper, are completely inappropriate bikes with the most extreme probably being the chap who did a 10 day trip through France to Northern Spain and back on a Ducati 888. We were doing over 300 miles per day, mostly off motorways, yet he was the one that would arrive at the hotel each night, drop his luggage off, then go for an hours ride to explore the local roads.
Likewise, I’ve known people with full dress tourers struggle to do more than 250, mostly motorway, miles each day.
If the position you are in when you ride your bike is currently even slightly uncomfortable then using it for touring will simply emphasize and magnify that discomfort. Make whatever changes you need to make (from adjusting lever positions through changing bars and foot rests to changing the bike for a different one) to get to a point where you can comfortably ride for over 2 hours/130 miles and not feel that having to do the same again is going to be a chore.
Secondly, make sure that any and all luggage you add is stable and secure but also lets you get on, ride and get off the bike without the requirement for significant contortion. Worrying that you luggage may fall off or that you don’t know how you’re going to get off the bike without dropping it when you come to a stop will make every mile pretty unpleasant. I personally like tank bags and panniers as they put the weight in the best place on the bike and do the least (for me) to interfere with the dynamics of the bike or my riding. Likewise, I dislike top boxes or large bags mounted on rear racks as they put weight and non-aerodynamic objects in exactly the worst place. I also avoid anything that I need to carry while riding, such as a rucksack, as it limits my movement and what starts out as a little extra weight on wrists and back can end up as a very uncomfortable extra load by the end of a ride. But, find what best works for you.
Next, choose your routes carefully and have alternatives in mind. While motorways are boring, they can be fast and efficient. There’s little joy in riding on a mountain road when it’s pissing with rain and cold, your already two thirds of the way through the day and you still have over half your journey to do. If, for whatever reason, things aren’t working for you on the “scenic” roads then knowing where you can easily switch routes to something boring but efficient can stop a journey becoming a nightmare.
Finally, stopping and resting a lot may sound like a good idea but you are not reducing the remaining distance while you’re stood stationary worrying about how much further it is. Definitely stop and rest if and when you need to but turning your first and second 10 minute stops into 25 minutes each just means you either have a half hour longer day than planned or have no time for stops later in the day when you really are staring to flag. I also find that thinking about the fact that I still have XXX miles left to do means that stopping is not a relaxing experience and, instead, just increases the stress.
Whatever you do, make sure you enjoy the experience as riding new and different roads as part of a bike tour can be one of the most fun things you can do on a bike.
Silver993tt said:
For any kind of distance touring, hard luggage is really the only option. Clip-on-FALL-off in a few seconds, waterproof, no flapping around, safely secure.
EFA.My Givi is six years old & I've had to replace the rack as it rotted from the inside out, then two weeks later the topbox started falling off at random because the plastic clip has broke in the lock.
Over priced s
te TBH. Brilliant when it works, but it doesn't last & isn't quality.black-k1 said:
Secondly, make sure that any and all luggage you add is stable and secure but also lets you get on, ride and get off the bike without the requirement for significant contortion.
I ended up doing almost a week around France last month on my MV F4 and using a big(ish) rucksack and truth be told I was perfectly comfy with it - I've always had strapped on luggage before but there was no option for it this time.I found that it gave me a lot more freedom. Just walk out of the hotel, hop on the bike and drive off. No pissing about with bungees and so on. Best option would have been a Renntec + topbox, but that wasn't available.
It was also pretty handy if visiting museums and so on - instead of worrying about leaving soft luggage on the bike I'd just ask the attendants to look after it, which they all did with pleasure (except anywhere American eg. Point d'Hoc).
This is the size of rucksack I'm on about...
Had shoes, flipflops, socks, undies, t shirts, jeans, washbag, phone charger, visor cleaning kit and even a hoodie all carefully micro-packed. Did 420 miles in one day.
FWIW, I have had a givi rack and topbox fitted to my SV650 for about 7 years now. I've suffered no problems with it although it is now starting to show signs of age (flaking paint) but not suprising since the first 5 years saw me commuting on the bike all year round in all weathers. I would rinse the bike down though after particularly wet and dirty rides during winter which no doubt has helped.
I hands down prefer a topbox on a properly designed rack over soft luggage, or a topbox bolted to a rack not really designed for lots of weight. And anything which is strapped to the bike is miles, miles, miles better than wearing a rucksack (except for my water-carrier, but thats only carrying a kilo of water as a maxiumum at any time)
Dont hate on hard luggage, its really good equipment, espeicially when you are a regular commuter or a regular long-distance rider. As for the strength, I stopped at the scene of an accident one night to find a TDM900 upside down, resting on its handlebars and topbox. Topbox was in one piece...givi luggage.
I hands down prefer a topbox on a properly designed rack over soft luggage, or a topbox bolted to a rack not really designed for lots of weight. And anything which is strapped to the bike is miles, miles, miles better than wearing a rucksack (except for my water-carrier, but thats only carrying a kilo of water as a maxiumum at any time)
Dont hate on hard luggage, its really good equipment, espeicially when you are a regular commuter or a regular long-distance rider. As for the strength, I stopped at the scene of an accident one night to find a TDM900 upside down, resting on its handlebars and topbox. Topbox was in one piece...givi luggage.
black-k1 said:
As you’ve suggested in your original post, the key to covering distance on any bike is to be comfortable. That applies to your state of mind as much as your physical situation.
Any bike can cope with touring if you are comfortable with its and your abilities and limitations. I’ve toured with people who have ridden what, on paper, are completely inappropriate bikes with the most extreme probably being the chap who did a 10 day trip through France to Northern Spain and back on a Ducati 888. We were doing over 300 miles per day, mostly off motorways, yet he was the one that would arrive at the hotel each night, drop his luggage off, then go for an hours ride to explore the local roads.
Likewise, I’ve known people with full dress tourers struggle to do more than 250, mostly motorway, miles each day.
If the position you are in when you ride your bike is currently even slightly uncomfortable then using it for touring will simply emphasize and magnify that discomfort. Make whatever changes you need to make (from adjusting lever positions through changing bars and foot rests to changing the bike for a different one) to get to a point where you can comfortably ride for over 2 hours/130 miles and not feel that having to do the same again is going to be a chore.
Secondly, make sure that any and all luggage you add is stable and secure but also lets you get on, ride and get off the bike without the requirement for significant contortion. Worrying that you luggage may fall off or that you don’t know how you’re going to get off the bike without dropping it when you come to a stop will make every mile pretty unpleasant. I personally like tank bags and panniers as they put the weight in the best place on the bike and do the least (for me) to interfere with the dynamics of the bike or my riding. Likewise, I dislike top boxes or large bags mounted on rear racks as they put weight and non-aerodynamic objects in exactly the worst place. I also avoid anything that I need to carry while riding, such as a rucksack, as it limits my movement and what starts out as a little extra weight on wrists and back can end up as a very uncomfortable extra load by the end of a ride. But, find what best works for you.
Next, choose your routes carefully and have alternatives in mind. While motorways are boring, they can be fast and efficient. There’s little joy in riding on a mountain road when it’s pissing with rain and cold, your already two thirds of the way through the day and you still have over half your journey to do. If, for whatever reason, things aren’t working for you on the “scenic†roads then knowing where you can easily switch routes to something boring but efficient can stop a journey becoming a nightmare.
Finally, stopping and resting a lot may sound like a good idea but you are not reducing the remaining distance while you’re stood stationary worrying about how much further it is. Definitely stop and rest if and when you need to but turning your first and second 10 minute stops into 25 minutes each just means you either have a half hour longer day than planned or have no time for stops later in the day when you really are staring to flag. I also find that thinking about the fact that I still have XXX miles left to do means that stopping is not a relaxing experience and, instead, just increases the stress.
Whatever you do, make sure you enjoy the experience as riding new and different roads as part of a bike tour can be one of the most fun things you can do on a bike.
Absolutely spot on and I'd agree with everything said here. Any bike can cope with touring if you are comfortable with its and your abilities and limitations. I’ve toured with people who have ridden what, on paper, are completely inappropriate bikes with the most extreme probably being the chap who did a 10 day trip through France to Northern Spain and back on a Ducati 888. We were doing over 300 miles per day, mostly off motorways, yet he was the one that would arrive at the hotel each night, drop his luggage off, then go for an hours ride to explore the local roads.
Likewise, I’ve known people with full dress tourers struggle to do more than 250, mostly motorway, miles each day.
If the position you are in when you ride your bike is currently even slightly uncomfortable then using it for touring will simply emphasize and magnify that discomfort. Make whatever changes you need to make (from adjusting lever positions through changing bars and foot rests to changing the bike for a different one) to get to a point where you can comfortably ride for over 2 hours/130 miles and not feel that having to do the same again is going to be a chore.
Secondly, make sure that any and all luggage you add is stable and secure but also lets you get on, ride and get off the bike without the requirement for significant contortion. Worrying that you luggage may fall off or that you don’t know how you’re going to get off the bike without dropping it when you come to a stop will make every mile pretty unpleasant. I personally like tank bags and panniers as they put the weight in the best place on the bike and do the least (for me) to interfere with the dynamics of the bike or my riding. Likewise, I dislike top boxes or large bags mounted on rear racks as they put weight and non-aerodynamic objects in exactly the worst place. I also avoid anything that I need to carry while riding, such as a rucksack, as it limits my movement and what starts out as a little extra weight on wrists and back can end up as a very uncomfortable extra load by the end of a ride. But, find what best works for you.
Next, choose your routes carefully and have alternatives in mind. While motorways are boring, they can be fast and efficient. There’s little joy in riding on a mountain road when it’s pissing with rain and cold, your already two thirds of the way through the day and you still have over half your journey to do. If, for whatever reason, things aren’t working for you on the “scenic†roads then knowing where you can easily switch routes to something boring but efficient can stop a journey becoming a nightmare.
Finally, stopping and resting a lot may sound like a good idea but you are not reducing the remaining distance while you’re stood stationary worrying about how much further it is. Definitely stop and rest if and when you need to but turning your first and second 10 minute stops into 25 minutes each just means you either have a half hour longer day than planned or have no time for stops later in the day when you really are staring to flag. I also find that thinking about the fact that I still have XXX miles left to do means that stopping is not a relaxing experience and, instead, just increases the stress.
Whatever you do, make sure you enjoy the experience as riding new and different roads as part of a bike tour can be one of the most fun things you can do on a bike.
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