CBR600F4i Battery Thoughts / Suggestions / Things to Check

CBR600F4i Battery Thoughts / Suggestions / Things to Check

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Discussion

jcelee

Original Poster:

1,039 posts

243 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
I've recently bought a 2003 Honda CBR600F4I. It has a Datatool Series 3 alarm and has had a fairly recent battery (March I believe).

I left it at work one day last week and couldn't start it on my return, believing it was caused by me leaving the lights on (not even sure it is possible to leave the lights on with no ignition??!!) It started immediately when jump started and I put it back on the battery conditioner back home.

I noticed that the battery conditioner was hovering at around 12.9v even after it was left for several days. This morning it would not start - again only starting following a jump start. Once running, no issues, it shows no signs of cutting out when stopped and idles perfectly.

What do you think I should I check / replace / remove please?

Many thanks,

Jon


sjtscott

4,215 posts

230 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Sounds like the battery to me. I had a 2003 F4i.. the lights are auto on/off with the ignition - at least mine was.

Do you have an opimate or equivalent battery tender/charger? If not I'd suggest buying one and putting the battery on that, my optimate/ctek chargers/tenders will tell you if the battery has issues and attempt to recover it. Certainly it could just be cheaper if you don't want to buy a charger/tender to replace the battery first.

Prof Prolapse

16,160 posts

189 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Check it's charging. Greater than 13Vs at 5000rpm.

If it isn't then it's almost certainly the rectifier. You can't do a proper test on them (only diode) test, so you need to diagnose by excluding other components like the alternator and battery (poss alarm in your case).

I've had to change mine twice.

jcelee

Original Poster:

1,039 posts

243 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Thanks guys, the bike came with an Oxford battery conditioner, thats where I read the 12.9v this morning before I wheeeled the bike out and tried to start it.

Should I put a meter across the battery while on the stand at 5000 rpm and see whether it reads 13v + ?


Prof Prolapse

16,160 posts

189 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
jcelee said:
Thanks guys, the bike came with an Oxford battery conditioner, thats where I read the 12.9v this morning before I wheeeled the bike out and tried to start it.

Should I put a meter across the battery while on the stand at 5000 rpm and see whether it reads 13v + ?

I wouldn't worry about the battery holding charge just yet.

Right I can't find my manual so voltages are based on my st memory, but it should be bloody obvious if it's not working....

1) Start the bike.
2) Put voltmeter across the terminals.
3) It should read above 12.3V.
4) Bring revs up to appox 5000rpm.
5) Voltage should jump to 13.5 - 15V, if it doesn't increase you have a charging issue.

The most common charging issue with your bike by a country mile is the rectifier. Unless you want to throw parts at your bike however you'll need to test other charging components first, as rectifiers aren't easily tested beyond the most basic tests. You can do something called a diode test, but my last two passed this and were still fked so it's misleading.

Edit: amended voltages and rpm to correct ones.



Edited by Prof Prolapse on Thursday 28th August 12:23

jcelee

Original Poster:

1,039 posts

243 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Great, thanks Prof

Prof Prolapse

16,160 posts

189 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Just let us know how you get on. It might not be that, but I'm reliably told it usual is!

jcelee

Original Poster:

1,039 posts

243 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Will do, I suspect the battery must be toast already too though because it doesn't seem to have accepted charge from the Oxford Conditioner... In addition to doing the check you describe I will also try it on an Optimate 3 conditioner I have that shows the state of the battery more clearly.


RizzoTheRat

25,085 posts

191 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
This for detail on checking the charging system but Prof Prolapse has covered most of it
http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-findin...

Also check what the battery voltage is before you start the bike, if it's less than about 12.5v the battery's got a problem.

jcelee

Original Poster:

1,039 posts

243 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Hi there, I needed to get the bike jump started before coming home and put it straight on the multimeter without stopping the engine.

I found around:
13.3v at idle.
12.7v when the cooling fan kicked in.
14.7v when opening the throttle up to 2500 revs
still around 14.7v when taking it up to 5000 revs.

I've plugged it into an Optimate 3 but I'm guessing that the Rectifier seems to be working properly?
Makes me suspicious of the alarm drain... its one that auto-arms itself and there is no means of actually switching off.

sjtscott

4,215 posts

230 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Would seem like the charging system is doing something. What does the optimate indicate? Is it just charging or is it sulphated?

accident

582 posts

255 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
1st line of your post points a finger.
you say you think its a recent battery.
is it?
did you fit it?
if you did why do you only think its new?
has the battery got a fitted date?
did the seller give you a receipt for a new batt?
did he fit the new one to his bike and give you the old one?
you see where this is going

jcelee

Original Poster:

1,039 posts

243 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
The Optimate quickly moved from checking amber to green (all good).

The seller didn't have another bike and I've just been through the receipts. There is a receipt for a new battery on 6th August 2013 and another receipt for a new battery on 13th March 2014! He said several times I might want to get the alarm removed (I have the certificate for its fitment on 1st February 2003 which was the day the bike was registered). He said that in Brighton he couldn't insure the bike at a reasonable premium without an alarm.

I'm suspecting that the alarm might be a major drain - where I live and park not having an alarm should not be a major issue (I have other security anyway).

Prof Prolapse

16,160 posts

189 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Well good news the expensive components are working and your battery is the cheapest component in the system so that is what I'd now be hoping for.

Personally I'd try exclude the alarm next. Example of draw test to see if you have a drain;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYUoXApI89Q

I'll be honest I've never done it on a bike before so unsure if his claims of mAmpage are the same, but you should be able to google to confirm.

You can get your battery tested by a friendly garage. Alternatively your battery costs ~£30 for a Yuasa branded one. So it's still cheaper to buy one and hope than call an autospark.

Best of luck.

accident

582 posts

255 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
ok the guy had 2 batt in 2 years thats madness.
its not the battery.
i think you may be right the alarm may be your problem.
next step is to measure current through the bike while its doing nothing.
ie a meter inbetween the pos + of batt and everything else.(dont run lights or try to start bike as it will grill your tester).
with nothing on measure the amps.
cutting out a post fit immobliser isnt to hard even without a diagram but it will take time and effort.
crimmos can do it in no time but they dont mind dammage,

jcelee

Original Poster:

1,039 posts

243 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Hi guys,

The battery when fully charged is showing 12.8 - 12.9v (slightly below the 13-13.2v that Honda recommend. I ran some drain tests on the battery and could not find any notable drain except when you disarm the alarm - the very loud cherps from the alarm seem to decimate the voltage and prevent the bike from starting even after a full recharge.

I'm thinking I'll jump start it and wheel it down to the local bike mechanic, asking them to give the bike a general once over and to remove the alarm. I need reliability far above security... I'm guessing once the alarm is removed I might still need a new battery but 12.8v - 12.9v might be sufficient to start it without the alarm disarm drain.

Sound sensible?

Prof Prolapse

16,160 posts

189 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
I can't be much more help but personally I'd spend £30 on a new battery because to me it sounds like the most likely issue and will cost less to test than 30 minutes with a mechanic.

But then I'm the gambling type. I'm sure someone else would disagree.

ccr32

1,968 posts

217 months

Monday 1st September 2014
quotequote all
If it is of any use to you, I can put a multimeter across the terminals of the battery on my bike later and see what it reads as a comparison?

Mine doesn't have an alarm so could make for some good comparative viewing. Not had any problems with starting or the battery, save for once when I attempted to use it as a mobile spotlight illuminating an otherwise darkened shed and ran it completely flat, oops... (notably, after a jump start and a ride for about half an hour it worked fine after that too - no new battery or otherwise required)

jcelee

Original Poster:

1,039 posts

243 months

Monday 1st September 2014
quotequote all
Thanks very much, those comparative figures will be useful.

I'm going to be using the bike daily from the end of this month so have booked it into my local bike mechanic to get the alarm removed and it generally checked over. I'm too new to biking to be anywhere near an expert and hope /trust/expect that I can get a low mileage 2003 Honda which is generally in very good shape into a very reliable state.

Hooli

32,278 posts

199 months

Monday 1st September 2014
quotequote all
jcelee said:
I'm too new to biking...
In that case, daft question time - Are you turning the key off too far? On every jap bike I've had if you turn the key off past lock it puts the parking lights on.