Youngsters not taking motorcycle test(s)
Discussion
Wyvern971 said:
If the market for motorcycles shrinks, then they stop developing / making as many.
It might not affect you now, but 5-10 years down the line when there isn't a market for motorcycles (or rather a much smaller market) do you think that the manufacturers will put as much time/effort/money into it?
I've really pushed myself not to put a nasty comment about your post. It's a bit naive though. Do you really think that the UK, or even Europe has much of a bearing on the design of bikes? The Far East and Sub Continent dictate bike design and marketing. The UK is about as relevant to bike design as Sark is to the strategic approach of Vodafone in the UK. It might not affect you now, but 5-10 years down the line when there isn't a market for motorcycles (or rather a much smaller market) do you think that the manufacturers will put as much time/effort/money into it?
LoonR1 said:
Do you really think that the UK, or even Europe has much of a bearing on the design of bikes? The Far East and Sub Continent dictate bike design and marketing.
If the 1st World wasn't a consideration at all we wouldn't see superbikes at all. The R&D into the new R1 is pointless to units sold but keeps the brand aspirational, keeps the brand in front of the Chinese, keeps people in Japan employed inventing new (and doubtless useless) tech. If you don't worry about your flagship bikes and just pump out millions of scooters in Indonesia then the whole thing slips.They do care what happens in little ol' UK and Europe.
julian64 said:
I am a GP.
Once you get past all those tedious medical exams etc. it seems the only advice GPs are able to to give is:"Cut down on drink"
"Stop smoking"
"Take more exercise"
"Eat a balanced diet".
The few I've seen in the past 10 years have always been quite disappointed that I don't smoke and hardly ever drink as it cut their options by 50%. Therefore you'll forgive me if I don't really trust the advice of GP's, let alone when talking about an area they don't specialise in.
My favourite cock up from this whole licence fiasco was the swerve and stop manoeuvre. The UK basically forgot to negotiate an opt-out for the minimum speed at which this must be performed (50kph, i.e. slightly OVER 30 mph). The result was that the test couldn't legally be done on the road... so they had to start buying bits of land to use as test centres. EU-national legislation interface cock up at its very best.
moto_traxport said:
LoonR1 said:
Do you really think that the UK, or even Europe has much of a bearing on the design of bikes? The Far East and Sub Continent dictate bike design and marketing.
If the 1st World wasn't a consideration at all we wouldn't see superbikes at all. The R&D into the new R1 is pointless to units sold but keeps the brand aspirational, keeps the brand in front of the Chinese, keeps people in Japan employed inventing new (and doubtless useless) tech. If you don't worry about your flagship bikes and just pump out millions of scooters in Indonesia then the whole thing slips.They do care what happens in little ol' UK and Europe.
As it stands for one example, Honda sell about 2000 CBF 125s a year here. Out in India, that could be a single days sales. Once the Chinese and Indian markets catch us up for big bikes, and they will, future big stuff will be built around their requirements and not ours.
The point of when we are no longer relevant for big bike sales is almost certainly decades away, but it is coming.
LoonR1 said:
I've really pushed myself not to put a nasty comment about your post. It's a bit naive though. Do you really think that the UK, or even Europe has much of a bearing on the design of bikes? The Far East and Sub Continent dictate bike design and marketing. The UK is about as relevant to bike design as Sark is to the strategic approach of Vodafone in the UK.
Say what you want, doesn't bother me.I'd say that, for the moment, that we still do have an influence or they'd just punt out whatever they're making for the larger markets.
I don't think that the sales level for sports bikes in the far east is going to be as high as it is here for now. (That may well change, but when I don't know).
As to corporate strategies, I'd have thought a sensible way of doing it is to design what sells, rather than what you sell elsewhere.
CBR JGWRR said:
We are a drop in the ocean now.
As it stands for one example, Honda sell about 2000 CBF 125s a year here. Out in India, that could be a single days sales. Once the Chinese and Indian markets catch us up for big bikes, and they will, future big stuff will be built around their requirements and not ours.
The point of when we are no longer relevant for big bike sales is almost certainly decades away, but it is coming.
Which is quite true, but that's a while away yet, and until that tipping point Europe will have a certain amount of influence on what gets designed for here. As it stands for one example, Honda sell about 2000 CBF 125s a year here. Out in India, that could be a single days sales. Once the Chinese and Indian markets catch us up for big bikes, and they will, future big stuff will be built around their requirements and not ours.
The point of when we are no longer relevant for big bike sales is almost certainly decades away, but it is coming.
CBR JGWRR said:
moto_traxport said:
LoonR1 said:
Do you really think that the UK, or even Europe has much of a bearing on the design of bikes? The Far East and Sub Continent dictate bike design and marketing.
If the 1st World wasn't a consideration at all we wouldn't see superbikes at all. The R&D into the new R1 is pointless to units sold but keeps the brand aspirational, keeps the brand in front of the Chinese, keeps people in Japan employed inventing new (and doubtless useless) tech. If you don't worry about your flagship bikes and just pump out millions of scooters in Indonesia then the whole thing slips.They do care what happens in little ol' UK and Europe.
As it stands for one example, Honda sell about 2000 CBF 125s a year here. Out in India, that could be a single days sales. Once the Chinese and Indian markets catch us up for big bikes, and they will, future big stuff will be built around their requirements and not ours.
The point of when we are no longer relevant for big bike sales is almost certainly decades away, but it is coming.
The reason I mentioned Indonesia rather than India or China is that they sell 750,000+ bikes there every month.
90,000ish per year in UK so I do get where you're coming from a numbers / accounts point of view.
LoonR1 said:
I've really pushed myself not to put a nasty comment about your post. It's a bit naive though. Do you really think that the UK, or even Europe has much of a bearing on the design of bikes? The Far East and Sub Continent dictate bike design and marketing. The UK is about as relevant to bike design as Sark is to the strategic approach of Vodafone in the UK.
Yes. Yes it does. Mass market angle is a poor argument, if you applied it to cars then the likes of Lambo, Ferrari, et al would be making Fiestas. Plus as the shift of sales moves East, their relative wealth only increases.
But anyway, back to original point. The complexity and cost have got to be the biggest barriers. Not like a car where you can practice in a parents car and do one practical test.
But anyway, back to original point. The complexity and cost have got to be the biggest barriers. Not like a car where you can practice in a parents car and do one practical test.
Dog Star said:
julian64 said:
Look at the thread on ear plugs for the way that bikers have become more risk averse than ten years ago.
Preserving your hearing isn't "risk averse", as such. It's common sense. I think people are just better informed.
ks your hearing. The noise you encounter riding doesn't magically pass around your ears because you have a pisspot on your head, indeed most hats I've worn do the opposite and direct noise towards the ears.hidetheelephants said:
Dog Star said:
julian64 said:
Look at the thread on ear plugs for the way that bikers have become more risk averse than ten years ago.
Preserving your hearing isn't "risk averse", as such. It's common sense. I think people are just better informed.ks your hearing. The noise you encounter riding doesn't magically pass around your ears because you have a pisspot on your head, indeed most hats I've worn do the opposite and direct noise towards the ears.I think it was shown that 15 minutes a day or over 85 db would result in long term hearing problems.
I THINK, is that right. My ears have taken some amount of damage during the years, yet I can hear absolutely anything, im known for listening in on other peoples conversations 3 office compartments away.
The last time I sat through a 'wear PPE you stupid bds' talk, which admittedly was a long time ago, 85dB was described as 'nuisance' noise which has the effect of distracting and fatiguing but not causing damage; damage required prolonged exposure to 90dB or over. Whether the criteria have shifted since I don't know.
ds' talk, which admittedly was a long time ago, 85dB was described as 'nuisance' noise which has the effect of distracting and fatiguing but not causing damage; damage required prolonged exposure to 90dB or over. Whether the criteria have shifted since I don't know.Wyvern971 said:
btdk5 said:
Why does anyone care that not as many people are taking up learning to ride compared to a previous year?
You have your licence...
If the market for motorcycles shrinks, then they stop developing / making as many.You have your licence...
It might not affect you now, but 5-10 years down the line when there isn't a market for motorcycles (or rather a much smaller market) do you think that the manufacturers will put as much time/effort/money into it?
It'll lead to smaller manufacturers potentially going broke, larger manufacturers concentrating on different markets (i.e. smaller bikes in vast numbers) and the whole ecosystem worse off for it.
Obviously the above applies across the entire market, however you'd still see far fewer options available here and the ones you do see will have a price tag to reflect this.
17 year olds passing has dropped. Who gives a f
k. People going on like its about to be legislated out of existence. Give it a rest, legally you can wear just a piss pot lid, a pair of pants and your legal to ride.But oh no, the sky's falling down.
btdk5 said:
17 year olds passing has dropped. Who gives a fk. People going on like its about to be legislated out of existence. Give it a rest, legally you can wear just a piss pot lid, a pair of pants and your legal to ride.
But oh no, the sky's falling down.
Bit of a short term view. I think it's good thing to show concern over the state of your "hobby ". If no one (comparatively) new is entering it then it does die a death eventually.k. People going on like its about to be legislated out of existence. Give it a rest, legally you can wear just a piss pot lid, a pair of pants and your legal to ride.But oh no, the sky's falling down.
I can't imagine many youngsters having the money to warrant taking their tests..... In the old days Motorcycling was cheap transport..... Not any more... It is cheaper to go direct to a car.... The cost to get a licence is prohibitive.... Then there is the cost of the kit and the bike... The insurance on top of that is a further killer...... I think that it is a scam by the government to price motorcycles off the road for the young.
I am currently doing my HGV class 1 and estimate that it will cost me the best part of £ 4k for everything and from start to finish will that about 6-8 months with dealing with all the red tape (Medical, Theory, Hazard Perception, CPC, Class 2 and Class 1 licences).....
I am currently doing my HGV class 1 and estimate that it will cost me the best part of £ 4k for everything and from start to finish will that about 6-8 months with dealing with all the red tape (Medical, Theory, Hazard Perception, CPC, Class 2 and Class 1 licences).....
A common lawyer said:
My favourite cock up from this whole licence fiasco was the swerve and stop manoeuvre. The UK basically forgot to negotiate an opt-out for the minimum speed at which this must be performed (50kph, i.e. slightly OVER 30 mph). The result was that the test couldn't legally be done on the road... so they had to start buying bits of land to use as test centres. EU-national legislation interface cock up at its very best.
If you’re a conspiracy theorist like me, then there’s no cock-up. 
The EU requirement was for the swerve test to be taken at approximately 50kph. No exact figure was given as without speed measuring equipment it would be impossible to tell. The UK government chose to take the literal translation of 50kph at 31mph (thus more than urban speed limits) rather than saying that 30mph was approximately 50kph. This was pointed out to the UK government on many occasions by MAG, BMF etc. yet the UK government went ahead with the requirement for off road test centres. Was that a cock-up or a deliberate decision?
btdk5 said:
17 year olds passing has dropped. Who gives a fk. People going on like its about to be legislated out of existence. Give it a rest, legally you can wear just a piss pot lid, a pair of pants and your legal to ride.
But oh no, the sky's falling down.
The "under 19s not taking bike tests" is a red herring. There looks to be no point in them taking the test if they can only ride a 125 with or without a licence....k. People going on like its about to be legislated out of existence. Give it a rest, legally you can wear just a piss pot lid, a pair of pants and your legal to ride.But oh no, the sky's falling down.
Riding scooters is popular with younger people, but riding motorbikes is definitely an older man's game in the UK. Look at who is at a typical biker caff/meet. I'm younger than most of the bikers I see and I'm in my mid-late 30s.
EU Governments aren't keen on motorbikes and, in the uk, many bikes are thirsty sports bikes and used purely as weekend toys and not as transport, so there is not really the environmental or congestion argument in favour of them.
We really need to tackle the safety issue that is born again bikers on the road.
Aren't these the biggest statistic out there?
They spent their days on a stey underpowered LC (that seems to be all the fk they talk about), sold it when their children came along as it was "too dangerous", then once the children leave home they go and buy something with 100 bhp + and then kill or seriously harm themselves within a few years.
At least when us youth crash we are made out of elastic, and after a bottle of Tizer and a fag we are good to go again.
Aren't these the biggest statistic out there?
They spent their days on a s
tey underpowered LC (that seems to be all the fk they talk about), sold it when their children came along as it was "too dangerous", then once the children leave home they go and buy something with 100 bhp + and then kill or seriously harm themselves within a few years. At least when us youth crash we are made out of elastic, and after a bottle of Tizer and a fag we are good to go again.
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff