Anyone own a watercooled BMW R1200GS?
Discussion
We have one
It was an ex loan bike for people with RT trouble, had 2000 miles and £2k of list, got given a fair fade in for the air cooled, thought give it a go.
It's a much much faster bike than the old one. Feels like a newer bike should in every respect,sounds really good with OEM exhaust too.
It's far less involving than the old bike at low speed, it's like a sports bike, it doesn't feel like it's properly working until 60.
Brakes, screen, switchgear*, clocks are all an improvement on the old one IMHO.
Electronics, ABS and TC are far more subtle in their operation, much smoother.
TC is needed to keep the front down in 1st and 2nd which was quite a shock.
Riding modes are very good, dynamic makes it feel like a giant supermoto, super fast throttle and great sporty suspension.
The 2014 gets the steering damper, as per RT chassis.
2015 gets this heavier crank from the GSA which is said to make the engine more like the old GS. I personally have grown to like the light flywheel feel of the 14' bike, although it is genuinely easier to stall coming straight off the air head.
It spins up much more quickly, 3.5k to 6k is sweet spot with 6k to the 9kline taking on a sports bike like aggression.
Bottom end off tickover feels a bit weaker, probably due to the crank weight, but I doubt it is.
Loads more ground clearance on both cylinder heads and pegs, so if you are like me with the old one, a little paranoid about grounding when riding hard, it's much better.
If you are a faster rider this new GS is a lot faster with better handling and brakes and is very very capable. If you are a chilled tosser, it has a better screen, fancier riding modes and is a really nice bike for hauling miles.
If anything it's a little characterless next to the old one but an infinitely better bike.
Problems
Gearbox complaints : I think it's user error,it's a sweet box, and also the new quick shifter is meant to knacker it, so I wouldn't bother with one.
Cam chain bolt fail thingy : all dealer bikes seem to have the offending bolt torqued up to oblivion to prevent it happening, it would appear it was one part of the assembly line in the factory forgetting to torque it up.
Kill switch sticking* : really common problem, if you use the kill switch to turn your bike off with a few people it jams and you have to really smack it to turn. The bike back on, dealers are meant to be fixing it when you take it back.
Compared to the KTM, the BMW has loads more bottom end and midrange, less top end but equally good handling with far fewer faults.
HTH
It was an ex loan bike for people with RT trouble, had 2000 miles and £2k of list, got given a fair fade in for the air cooled, thought give it a go.
It's a much much faster bike than the old one. Feels like a newer bike should in every respect,sounds really good with OEM exhaust too.
It's far less involving than the old bike at low speed, it's like a sports bike, it doesn't feel like it's properly working until 60.
Brakes, screen, switchgear*, clocks are all an improvement on the old one IMHO.
Electronics, ABS and TC are far more subtle in their operation, much smoother.
TC is needed to keep the front down in 1st and 2nd which was quite a shock.
Riding modes are very good, dynamic makes it feel like a giant supermoto, super fast throttle and great sporty suspension.
The 2014 gets the steering damper, as per RT chassis.
2015 gets this heavier crank from the GSA which is said to make the engine more like the old GS. I personally have grown to like the light flywheel feel of the 14' bike, although it is genuinely easier to stall coming straight off the air head.
It spins up much more quickly, 3.5k to 6k is sweet spot with 6k to the 9kline taking on a sports bike like aggression.
Bottom end off tickover feels a bit weaker, probably due to the crank weight, but I doubt it is.
Loads more ground clearance on both cylinder heads and pegs, so if you are like me with the old one, a little paranoid about grounding when riding hard, it's much better.
If you are a faster rider this new GS is a lot faster with better handling and brakes and is very very capable. If you are a chilled tosser, it has a better screen, fancier riding modes and is a really nice bike for hauling miles.
If anything it's a little characterless next to the old one but an infinitely better bike.
Problems
Gearbox complaints : I think it's user error,it's a sweet box, and also the new quick shifter is meant to knacker it, so I wouldn't bother with one.
Cam chain bolt fail thingy : all dealer bikes seem to have the offending bolt torqued up to oblivion to prevent it happening, it would appear it was one part of the assembly line in the factory forgetting to torque it up.
Kill switch sticking* : really common problem, if you use the kill switch to turn your bike off with a few people it jams and you have to really smack it to turn. The bike back on, dealers are meant to be fixing it when you take it back.
Compared to the KTM, the BMW has loads more bottom end and midrange, less top end but equally good handling with far fewer faults.
HTH
Thanks mate. I did long test rides on both the air-cooled and the water-cooled and yes, the new one felt a lot sportier. Much to the surprise of the K1300S rider that I overtook 
My nearest dealer (20 miles away) has a couple in at around £11k so I'm going to have a look in the week and see what they might give me for my old 2009 Street Triple.
My nearest dealer (20 miles away) has a couple in at around £11k so I'm going to have a look in the week and see what they might give me for my old 2009 Street Triple.
Thanks.
The only thing I wasn't sure about on both versions was how slow I was in London traffic compared to my little Street Triple. Again I'm sure it's something you get used to and better at but I just kept thinking I was going to bash the cylinder heads going through gaps
Bought a massive US Ford sedan a few months ago and now I'm just as fast thru the London traffic as I am in my BMW E36
The only thing I wasn't sure about on both versions was how slow I was in London traffic compared to my little Street Triple. Again I'm sure it's something you get used to and better at but I just kept thinking I was going to bash the cylinder heads going through gaps
Bought a massive US Ford sedan a few months ago and now I'm just as fast thru the London traffic as I am in my BMW E36
I hired one for 24 hours to see how it would be on my common commute from SW London to E London and back. Apart from not being able to get through some of the gaps in grid locked traffic in central London, it impressed me apart from one big thing, annoying for such an expensive machine.
It looks like a starship, goes like a starship and has all the bells, whistles and buttons like a starship but sounds like an old tractor. It's like a bag of nails in a tumble dryer.
I never noticed this on previous test rides as they had been out in the country going everywhere at a fair lick but in the slow stop start traffic in the city it was really obvious and made the bike seem cheap, although it's not.
Maybe I have got to used to the turbine whistling of the various 4s and triples that I have owned but saying that the twins of the modern Triumph don't feel so archaic.
Anyhow the next morning it was raining and grey so I made myself use the last 4 hours of ownership riding in the crap conditions through the rush hour traffic of S London and out into Surrey.
I have to say that with the suspension set to soft and the mode to rain the machine flattered my wet weather abilities. I wonder if the confidence in the electronics made me ride more normally and less cautiously than I would in similar conditions on my Street Triple, for I still treat a modern non TC/ABS/ESA bike's ability in the rain the same as I would with the bikes that I rode in the 80s with their teflon tyres and lard covered discs.
So I was hoping that the £190 spent on a days hire
would be saving me the 1000s that a BMW would cost by putting me off but I'm still undecided.
Suggestions for others to try on a postcard please.
It looks like a starship, goes like a starship and has all the bells, whistles and buttons like a starship but sounds like an old tractor. It's like a bag of nails in a tumble dryer.
I never noticed this on previous test rides as they had been out in the country going everywhere at a fair lick but in the slow stop start traffic in the city it was really obvious and made the bike seem cheap, although it's not.
Maybe I have got to used to the turbine whistling of the various 4s and triples that I have owned but saying that the twins of the modern Triumph don't feel so archaic.
Anyhow the next morning it was raining and grey so I made myself use the last 4 hours of ownership riding in the crap conditions through the rush hour traffic of S London and out into Surrey.
I have to say that with the suspension set to soft and the mode to rain the machine flattered my wet weather abilities. I wonder if the confidence in the electronics made me ride more normally and less cautiously than I would in similar conditions on my Street Triple, for I still treat a modern non TC/ABS/ESA bike's ability in the rain the same as I would with the bikes that I rode in the 80s with their teflon tyres and lard covered discs.
So I was hoping that the £190 spent on a days hire
would be saving me the 1000s that a BMW would cost by putting me off but I'm still undecided.Suggestions for others to try on a postcard please.
I understand your tractor comment. It sounds very mechanical, particularly with an empty tank like most bikes.
The riding modes are a bit of a revolution, it's easy to dismiss them as a gimmick but they do make a big difference and you do use them on the GS.
Have a go of the KTM 1190 if they float your boat. Very similar bike in many ways, better in some areas, weaker in others.
The filtering thing does annoy me a little bit you get used to the size very quickly.
Considered a 1000cc bike?
After being a die hard advocate of upright bikes I'm coming round to the idea of commuting on a blade or something similar with ABS.
The riding modes are a bit of a revolution, it's easy to dismiss them as a gimmick but they do make a big difference and you do use them on the GS.
Have a go of the KTM 1190 if they float your boat. Very similar bike in many ways, better in some areas, weaker in others.
The filtering thing does annoy me a little bit you get used to the size very quickly.
Considered a 1000cc bike?
After being a die hard advocate of upright bikes I'm coming round to the idea of commuting on a blade or something similar with ABS.
jackh707 said:
As with all GS's they get better the more you ride them. I hated it for the first test ride, and I mean really hated it.
You think? I got mine and thought it was very weird indeed. I then settled in to it and realised it was actually incredible easy to ride quite quickly and had a superb chassis. A bit later on I realised the engine was a massive pile of poo and any comparisons with sports bikes is wrong and I got bored of it very very quickly and sold it. Had it for 4 months and it probably was reliable for 3 of those. It made a used kawasakis seem like a sensible buy. This was an older non-watercooled model so maybe the new ones are awesome. Depends on what you're after I guess... as long as it's not excitement it'll be fine... when it works 
My first impression of the airhead was. "Jelly tractor".
It pitched backwards loads under acceleration then no dive when braking. I quite like the engines, old one is a nice lazy plodder, still plenty of grunt for the road.
The WC is quite different, felt like the whole bike was sitting on a skateboard at first, no sensation of what the wheels are doing. Soon get used to it and learn to feel what feedback there is.
Engine is a different league to the old one. It's got loads more umph.
It pitched backwards loads under acceleration then no dive when braking. I quite like the engines, old one is a nice lazy plodder, still plenty of grunt for the road.
The WC is quite different, felt like the whole bike was sitting on a skateboard at first, no sensation of what the wheels are doing. Soon get used to it and learn to feel what feedback there is.
Engine is a different league to the old one. It's got loads more umph.
I test rode one last week.
My impressions were that its not as wide as it looks and thats a good thing. It feels fairly nimble on the move and you can really crank it over with some effort.
Front felt vague to me on slower tight 90 corners, but that was probably me pushing on and not used to the telelever front end.
Very stable bike but I did feel it was under powered a little. The riding modes are excellent and give you confidence. I took my bike on some dirt track type roads in hampshire. The brakes are bloody brilliant. I had an emergency stop situation and the the bike pulled up really, really well!
If you stick it dynamic mode it allows you wheelie for a little bit before the traction control kicks in and down she comes. Composed landing however for a big bike.
I didn't like the fact it was difficult to get into neutral a lot of the time and the speedo isn't very clear.
I think I am more of KTM or Multistrader type.
My impressions were that its not as wide as it looks and thats a good thing. It feels fairly nimble on the move and you can really crank it over with some effort.
Front felt vague to me on slower tight 90 corners, but that was probably me pushing on and not used to the telelever front end.
Very stable bike but I did feel it was under powered a little. The riding modes are excellent and give you confidence. I took my bike on some dirt track type roads in hampshire. The brakes are bloody brilliant. I had an emergency stop situation and the the bike pulled up really, really well!
If you stick it dynamic mode it allows you wheelie for a little bit before the traction control kicks in and down she comes. Composed landing however for a big bike.
I didn't like the fact it was difficult to get into neutral a lot of the time and the speedo isn't very clear.
I think I am more of KTM or Multistrader type.
I've just bought the new GS Adventure with all the toys. It's the 2015 model with the keyless go, quick shifter etc.
I have to say I love it. I had a 2009 GS and I think the new one is a big improvement. I do think it's lost a little character compared to the old engine but for me the other improvements outway this.
If the OP is concerned about getting through London maybe wait for the new GS model next year which is coming out with the S1000 engine. I think it looks awesome but I went for the Adventure as I need the bigger tank. Spy shots of new bike - http://procycles.com.au/main/?p=11600
I have to say I love it. I had a 2009 GS and I think the new one is a big improvement. I do think it's lost a little character compared to the old engine but for me the other improvements outway this.
If the OP is concerned about getting through London maybe wait for the new GS model next year which is coming out with the S1000 engine. I think it looks awesome but I went for the Adventure as I need the bigger tank. Spy shots of new bike - http://procycles.com.au/main/?p=11600
Damn! Why did you show me that I was only thinking a GS with a turbine smooth 4 pot would be the dogs......
Oh and I agree about the Neutral and this on a well worn in 37k mile bike and I kept having to really look for my speed even with the digital display turned on. The Speed Display would be better where the gears are shown, in that size font. (I wouldn't have to keep looking at how fast/slow I was going if London wasn't festooned with different limit speed cameras as I would actually prefer to look at where I am going and keep a look out for all the other numpties on the road)
They do realise that these bikes are for the older more myopic gentleman
I was only thinking a GS with a turbine smooth 4 pot would be the dogs......Oh and I agree about the Neutral and this on a well worn in 37k mile bike and I kept having to really look for my speed even with the digital display turned on. The Speed Display would be better where the gears are shown, in that size font. (I wouldn't have to keep looking at how fast/slow I was going if London wasn't festooned with different limit speed cameras as I would actually prefer to look at where I am going and keep a look out for all the other numpties on the road)
They do realise that these bikes are for the older more myopic gentleman
Edited by croyde on Thursday 25th September 17:47
Owned one from new since November last year and have 9k on it now. It's my first BMW/boxer so I can't compare to the old models. I'll get this out of the way now - even with the faults listed below, I think it might be the one bike I'm not going to trade in or sell - except perhaps for another shinier one...
Bad bits:
Legendary BMW reliability - obviously doesn't apply to the switchgear (cruise control and main beam switches packed in - replaced under warranty), the screen mounts (cheap plastic circlips eventually fall out - replaced under warranty), the rear brake (pads worn within 1100 miles and I rarely touch the rear brake - replaced under warranty, but I need to get it back in as the rear brake is now binding on slightly...), the paint finish (corrosion evident where the swingarm meets the gearbox - not had it looked at yet), the rear lights (indicators died in the middle of a run - replaced under warranty).... That's all on a pampered bike kept indoors. Dealer support is excellent though and I've had some decent freebies from BMW by way of apology.
Gearbox - If you're giving it some proper welly or driving miss daisy, it's fine. Anything else and it rewards you with a seemingly random combination of clacks, clunks or bangs depending on how well you timed it. I've tried other machines, they were the same. My dealer has tried mine, 'they all do that, Sir'. It never fails to engage gear - it just makes a big fuss about doing it. Less 'snick' more '.50 cal rifle bolt'.
Engine - sounds like a bag of spanners at low speeds. Unavoidable unless you drown it out with an anti-social exhaust.
Good bits:
Gearbox! - Clutchless upshifts perfectly with a nice 'snick' between gears every damn time - almost as fun as some quickshifters I've tried. Also very easy to rev-match on the way down, and the slipper clutch helps if you're ham fisted. I reckon it's a good side effect of the light flywheel and snappy throttle. Unfortunately I think these are the same things that make the gearshift s
t the rest of the time. 
Engine - not your typical big twin lump. Loves to be revved and flies as long as you're not shy with it. Sounds great when it's on the boil - even with the stock exhaust, mine will pop and bang under deceleration.
Electronics - dismissed as a gimmick at first as I've never before had a bike with them - but they really flatter the rider. I never change it from Dynamic, which rarely intervenes but can still smoothly sort things out if you're a bit keen on a wet road. Also lets you wheelie to an 'HSE Approved' level. Not sure what the point in Road/Rain modes is.
Suspension/Handling - probably the only part of the bike that doesn't have good/bad points, it's just all round impressive. With the right rubber it will corner like a machine that size has no right to, happily scraping the pegs. The ESA system is again too easily dismissed as a gimmick until you try the settings back-to-back and realise what a difference it makes. I just dread the day the shocks need a rebuild out of warranty.
It's a very difficult machine to sum up. I can see why owners of previous GS's might hate it - in many ways it's trying hard to act like a sports bike (and frankly, it does a bloody good job) and you almost lose confidence that it can do the job it's supposed to - touring anywhere, any time. Then you load it up with 3-weeks worth of camping st, disappear off into the Highlands and wonder what you were worrying about.
As an side, I use mine to get to work as well and it's a far easier big machine to filter on than it looks. Bars are the widest point even with the panniers extended, all the weight is low down hiding the true bulk, and the mirrors are excellent so there's no excuse for holding up other bikes.
Bad bits:
Legendary BMW reliability - obviously doesn't apply to the switchgear (cruise control and main beam switches packed in - replaced under warranty), the screen mounts (cheap plastic circlips eventually fall out - replaced under warranty), the rear brake (pads worn within 1100 miles and I rarely touch the rear brake - replaced under warranty, but I need to get it back in as the rear brake is now binding on slightly...), the paint finish (corrosion evident where the swingarm meets the gearbox - not had it looked at yet), the rear lights (indicators died in the middle of a run - replaced under warranty).... That's all on a pampered bike kept indoors. Dealer support is excellent though and I've had some decent freebies from BMW by way of apology.
Gearbox - If you're giving it some proper welly or driving miss daisy, it's fine. Anything else and it rewards you with a seemingly random combination of clacks, clunks or bangs depending on how well you timed it. I've tried other machines, they were the same. My dealer has tried mine, 'they all do that, Sir'. It never fails to engage gear - it just makes a big fuss about doing it. Less 'snick' more '.50 cal rifle bolt'.
Engine - sounds like a bag of spanners at low speeds. Unavoidable unless you drown it out with an anti-social exhaust.
Good bits:
Gearbox! - Clutchless upshifts perfectly with a nice 'snick' between gears every damn time - almost as fun as some quickshifters I've tried. Also very easy to rev-match on the way down, and the slipper clutch helps if you're ham fisted. I reckon it's a good side effect of the light flywheel and snappy throttle. Unfortunately I think these are the same things that make the gearshift s
t the rest of the time. Engine - not your typical big twin lump. Loves to be revved and flies as long as you're not shy with it. Sounds great when it's on the boil - even with the stock exhaust, mine will pop and bang under deceleration.
Electronics - dismissed as a gimmick at first as I've never before had a bike with them - but they really flatter the rider. I never change it from Dynamic, which rarely intervenes but can still smoothly sort things out if you're a bit keen on a wet road. Also lets you wheelie to an 'HSE Approved' level. Not sure what the point in Road/Rain modes is.
Suspension/Handling - probably the only part of the bike that doesn't have good/bad points, it's just all round impressive. With the right rubber it will corner like a machine that size has no right to, happily scraping the pegs. The ESA system is again too easily dismissed as a gimmick until you try the settings back-to-back and realise what a difference it makes. I just dread the day the shocks need a rebuild out of warranty.
It's a very difficult machine to sum up. I can see why owners of previous GS's might hate it - in many ways it's trying hard to act like a sports bike (and frankly, it does a bloody good job) and you almost lose confidence that it can do the job it's supposed to - touring anywhere, any time. Then you load it up with 3-weeks worth of camping s
t, disappear off into the Highlands and wonder what you were worrying about. As an side, I use mine to get to work as well and it's a far easier big machine to filter on than it looks. Bars are the widest point even with the panniers extended, all the weight is low down hiding the true bulk, and the mirrors are excellent so there's no excuse for holding up other bikes.
Edited by BonzoG on Thursday 25th September 18:14
BonzoG said:
Owned one from new since November last year and have 9k on it now. It's my first BMW/boxer so I can't compare to the old models. I'll get this out of the way now - even with the faults listed below, I think it might be the one bike I'm not going to trade in or sell - except perhaps for another shinier one...
Bad bits:
Legendary BMW reliability - obviously doesn't apply to the switchgear (cruise control and main beam switches packed in - replaced under warranty), the screen mounts (cheap plastic circlips eventually fall out - replaced under warranty), the rear brake (pads worn within 1100 miles and I rarely touch the rear brake - replaced under warranty, but I need to get it back in as the rear brake is now binding on slightly...), the paint finish (corrosion evident where the swingarm meets the gearbox - not had it looked at yet), the rear lights (indicators died in the middle of a run - replaced under warranty).... That's all on a pampered bike kept indoors. Dealer support is excellent though and I've had some decent freebies from BMW by way of apology.
Gearbox - If you're giving it some proper welly or driving miss daisy, it's fine. Anything else and it rewards you with a seemingly random combination of clacks, clunks or bangs depending on how well you timed it. I've tried other machines, they were the same. My dealer has tried mine, 'they all do that, Sir'. It never fails to engage gear - it just makes a big fuss about doing it. Less 'snick' more '.50 cal rifle bolt'.
Engine - sounds like a bag of spanners at low speeds. Unavoidable unless you drown it out with an anti-social exhaust.
Good bits:
Gearbox! - Clutchless upshifts perfectly with a nice 'snick' between gears every damn time - almost as fun as some quickshifters I've tried. Also very easy to rev-match on the way down, and the slipper clutch helps if you're ham fisted. I reckon it's a good side effect of the light flywheel and snappy throttle. Unfortunately I think these are the same things that make the gearshift st the rest of the time.
Engine - not your typical big twin lump. Loves to be revved and flies as long as you're not shy with it. Sounds great when it's on the boil - even with the stock exhaust, mine will pop and bang under deceleration.
Electronics - dismissed as a gimmick at first as I've never before had a bike with them - but they really flatter the rider. I never change it from Dynamic, which rarely intervenes but can still smoothly sort things out if you're a bit keen on a wet road. Also lets you wheelie to an 'HSE Approved' level. Not sure what the point in Road/Rain modes is.
Suspension/Handling - probably the only part of the bike that doesn't have good/bad points, it's just all round impressive. With the right rubber it will corner like a machine that size has no right to, happily scraping the pegs. The ESA system is again too easily dismissed as a gimmick until you try the settings back-to-back and realise what a difference it makes. I just dread the day the shocks need a rebuild out of warranty.
It's a very difficult machine to sum up. I can see why owners of previous GS's might hate it - in many ways it's trying hard to act like a sports bike (and frankly, it does a bloody good job) and you almost lose confidence that it can do the job it's supposed to - touring anywhere, any time. Then you load it up with 3-weeks worth of camping st, disappear off into the Highlands and wonder what you were worrying about.
As an side, I use mine to get to work as well and it's a far easier big machine to filter on than it looks. Bars are the widest point even with the panniers extended, all the weight is low down hiding the true bulk, and the mirrors are excellent so there's no excuse for holding up other bikes.
Did you test ride any other bikes before you bought the GS?Bad bits:
Legendary BMW reliability - obviously doesn't apply to the switchgear (cruise control and main beam switches packed in - replaced under warranty), the screen mounts (cheap plastic circlips eventually fall out - replaced under warranty), the rear brake (pads worn within 1100 miles and I rarely touch the rear brake - replaced under warranty, but I need to get it back in as the rear brake is now binding on slightly...), the paint finish (corrosion evident where the swingarm meets the gearbox - not had it looked at yet), the rear lights (indicators died in the middle of a run - replaced under warranty).... That's all on a pampered bike kept indoors. Dealer support is excellent though and I've had some decent freebies from BMW by way of apology.
Gearbox - If you're giving it some proper welly or driving miss daisy, it's fine. Anything else and it rewards you with a seemingly random combination of clacks, clunks or bangs depending on how well you timed it. I've tried other machines, they were the same. My dealer has tried mine, 'they all do that, Sir'. It never fails to engage gear - it just makes a big fuss about doing it. Less 'snick' more '.50 cal rifle bolt'.
Engine - sounds like a bag of spanners at low speeds. Unavoidable unless you drown it out with an anti-social exhaust.
Good bits:
Gearbox! - Clutchless upshifts perfectly with a nice 'snick' between gears every damn time - almost as fun as some quickshifters I've tried. Also very easy to rev-match on the way down, and the slipper clutch helps if you're ham fisted. I reckon it's a good side effect of the light flywheel and snappy throttle. Unfortunately I think these are the same things that make the gearshift s
t the rest of the time. Engine - not your typical big twin lump. Loves to be revved and flies as long as you're not shy with it. Sounds great when it's on the boil - even with the stock exhaust, mine will pop and bang under deceleration.
Electronics - dismissed as a gimmick at first as I've never before had a bike with them - but they really flatter the rider. I never change it from Dynamic, which rarely intervenes but can still smoothly sort things out if you're a bit keen on a wet road. Also lets you wheelie to an 'HSE Approved' level. Not sure what the point in Road/Rain modes is.
Suspension/Handling - probably the only part of the bike that doesn't have good/bad points, it's just all round impressive. With the right rubber it will corner like a machine that size has no right to, happily scraping the pegs. The ESA system is again too easily dismissed as a gimmick until you try the settings back-to-back and realise what a difference it makes. I just dread the day the shocks need a rebuild out of warranty.
It's a very difficult machine to sum up. I can see why owners of previous GS's might hate it - in many ways it's trying hard to act like a sports bike (and frankly, it does a bloody good job) and you almost lose confidence that it can do the job it's supposed to - touring anywhere, any time. Then you load it up with 3-weeks worth of camping s
t, disappear off into the Highlands and wonder what you were worrying about. As an side, I use mine to get to work as well and it's a far easier big machine to filter on than it looks. Bars are the widest point even with the panniers extended, all the weight is low down hiding the true bulk, and the mirrors are excellent so there's no excuse for holding up other bikes.
Edited by BonzoG on Thursday 25th September 18:14
Yes - but only two - Crosstourer and Tiger Explorer. The Honda was competent but much like the Crossrunner I tried a couple of years ago, I felt like I was constantly sliding forwards on the seat. Couldn't get comfortable on it. The Triumph has a sweet engine but doesn't hide its bulk as well. Also short in the gadgets department, if you like that sort of thing - LED headlight, ESA suspension etc.
Part of me wishes I'd held out to try one of the big KTMs but the nearest dealer was 70 miles north of me, so not convenient.
Edit: Forgot I'd also tried an F800GS - good, but difficult to go to a smaller bike from an FJR and there's one annoying bolt/moulding on the engine casing that dug into my left ankle the entire time...
Part of me wishes I'd held out to try one of the big KTMs but the nearest dealer was 70 miles north of me, so not convenient.
Edit: Forgot I'd also tried an F800GS - good, but difficult to go to a smaller bike from an FJR and there's one annoying bolt/moulding on the engine casing that dug into my left ankle the entire time...
Edited by BonzoG on Thursday 25th September 22:56
My mate swapped his air cooled one for the new water cooled when they came out and hated it. He took it back and swapped for another air cooled one. He loves it. God knows why. We've just been round Europe, and had to go a BMW dealer in France because of a loud knocking from the engine on start. He was impressed that the dealer network was in the sat nav database. It needs to be! My Triumph Explorer hasn't missed a beat. It's like riding a bike with a turbine for an engine, and you can sit there for hours with the cruise control set at whatever speed you want. Brilliant bike.
I've done extended test rides of both the standard LC GS12 and also the new GS Adventure. I think the standard GS12 is the better all round bike - significantly more compact at the helm, and the reduction in height by 2" brings the CoG down to earth. Although I am first in line for the new S1000XR at my dealership, I think the GS12 may get the nod. It is a truly remarkable machine for all round road riding on British potmarked roads.
As a counter i currently have the KTM 1190 which i've been using for the last 9 months in and around Malawi/Mozambique/Tanzania. The primary reason i didn't go for a GS was a worry about their final drive reliability being 2500km from the nearest dealer.
Mine is the normal rather than the R model and i have to amit to having mixed feelings about it.
The Good
The Engine. 150 bhp retuned RC8 motor and it really hauls. With TKC80 knobblies on, it will wheelspin under hard acceleration in 1st and 2nd. Whilst it's a giggle it doesn't help tyre life. GS's, old or new, won't see which way you went. It pulls cleanly from tickover to the 11k redline but things get seriously funky above 7k. Bit of a Jekyl and Hyde it's all sweetness and light below 7k and a bit RC8 bonkers above.
The Gearbox. Compared to the early RC8 boxes, it's still clunky but positive. No false neutrals even when riding offroad in Tech 8 boots. 6th could possibly be a little longer for cruising. 120kph see's around 5k on the tacho and i'd prefer to see that at 130ish. Although being a chain drive bike, the gearing is easily adjusted.
The Electronics. With 4 riding modes, switchable/offroad ABS and traction control it covers all the bases. There's even a dongle that can be fitted to cater for 80 octane fuel which came in very handy up in the north of Malawi where the fuel is suspect to say the least. The only downside is some of the modes require the bike to be stopped before changes can be made and the menu is a bit of a faff to negotiate. Would be far nicer to have a custom "preset' that has all the variables of your choosing set and can be called up on the go. For example, on dirt roadsor goat tracks, the ABS needs to be in 'Offroad' mode where the rear can be locked while the front is still under ABS supervision,the throttle needs to be in 'offroad' mode where it has a very long pull and power is reduced to 100 bhp and Traction Control needs to be off. Sounds simple enough but this can take a few minutes standing on the roadside setting up when a preset would allow instant set up on the fly. The traction control does clip the power quite considerably though. There's a massive diference between the motor's manners with TC off and even the Sport mode setting. It will permit a small wheelie but it's nothing compared to the when the motor is unrestrained. Right through the rev range,bottom to top, regardless of settings, the motor monsters the GS 1200. The motor will pull from standstill with a huge load and pillion with no drama or fuss,no need to rev it or slip the clutch, and with a very well calibrated throttle, there's no snatchiness or surging.
Tyre Pressure Monitoring. This is another handly little gadget, although the low pressure alarms when you drop the pressures for offroading are a tad tiresome.
Slipper Clutch. Nice to have but if the battery is dead, you won't be bumping it!! But especially good offroad with the weight of the bike on downhill sections though.
The Dash. Superb layout with an analogue rev counter and two digital displays. The right screen shows speed, gear, time, active modes etc whereas the left screen shows trip computers, menu settings etc. All controlled from a simple 4 way switch on the left bar.
The Headlight. For a motorcycle, the KTM headlight is superb. Sounds silly but spotlights are not required!
The Handling. True to KTM ethos, the 1190 isn't some wallowy old tractor. Even 2 up with luggage it really does handle well, and the Electronic Suspension is well set up for solo/solo+ luggage/solo + pillion/2 up + luggage. Again, easy to set via the menus.
Fuel Range/Economy. With the 23 litre tank, 400 kms is easily achieved. With a couple of 3 litre cans added to the luggage, nearer 500 kms is possible. Nice when we recently rode 460 kms between filling stations!!! It will out range the standard GS but needs a top up tank to match the GSA range.
The Brakes. Brembo. Linked ABS. Enough said!! Grab a serious handfull and the brakes are massively strong but have plenty of feel. Even the rear brake can be felt enough with MX boots to balance the bike with mild locking to get the rear sliding.
The Weight. At 212kgs, it weighs the same as a GS's front wheel!! Nice when you need to pick it up!!
Maintenance. With a minimum of tools the bike can be stripped down in the field quite easily. 8mm/10mm and the supplied Torx keys will sort out pretty much everything.
Accessory Wiring. There's a bunch of accessory plugs in the front that make wiring sat nav/accessories a snap. Some are controlled from the menu system,like the heated grips, while others are just a dedicated fused supply. Nicetouch
The Bad
The Side Stand. Apparently sorted on newer models,the side stand on early models was a joke, especially off road. It is too close to the bike when lowered with too small a foot and would sink in to anything other than concrete. Not uncommon to come back and you'd find your bike on its ear. Not cool. A 'Camel Toe' extension to the foot helps but things like this aren't acceptable on a bike like this.
The Engine Heat. This one is really poor. The heat from the rear cyclinder comes out under the seat behind your calf muscles and ROASTS your hamstrings area. Really not fun when you're riding in 45 degree heat already. There's panels available to shield the offending area so we'll see what effect they have but this isn't cool. Literally!!
The screen. No matter what position, if you're over 5 feet tall, the standard screen is a joke. Constant buffeting and noise, it simply isn't acceptable. How KTM ever signed this off is beyond me. They must employ 4' Pygmies as test riders. However, lots of options available but not sure you should have to change it in the first place
The Airbox. There's a known problem with the airbox not sealing and allowing dust & dirt into the engine. This has resulted in some new engines being fitted under warranty by KTM due to catastrophic damage. Fit the UniFilter kit with air snorkel filters, pre-filter with secondary main filter and aibox seal and you'll be sorted. May not apply to Guildford to Docklands commute, but if you ever get in the dirt, it's essential.
Niggles
The Suspension. Whilst KTM have set the bike up at the Sporty end of things, in my opinion, the compression and rebound valving are way off. In any of the modes with the ESA, everything just feels hard. Even in comfort mode, the valving slow, yet hard. Not tried a standard suspension model but i think the ride quality is some way off the BMW's especially on long road trips. However, as a caveat,i was riding on East Africa roads with TKC knobblies so i'll see how it feels on half decent roads before really deciding.
Reliability/Quality Control. Whilst my bike was pretty much faultless, there's a few niggles that need looking at. The primary is the headrace nut working loose which results in the bike feeling like it has a hinge in the middle or a slight headshake at speed. If you're off around the world, the C spanner tool would be adviseable as it's a very disconcerting thing.
KTM also decided to use the same bolts they use on their dirt bikes. Look cheap, corrode easily and don't belong on a bike in this price segment
The Indicator Switch. Small and lacks much positivity in its action but youdoget used to it
Ignition Key. Hidden low behind the top clamp it can be fiddly to get to with gloves on.
The Seat. I ride between 800 and 1200 kms a day and it's a tad on the hard side. Yet the pillion is as comfy as you like. KTM offer other seat options, even a heated seat, but they could do better with the standard fare.
Pillion Pegs. The mounting is such that if you stand back on the main pegs or move about alot offroad, the pillion pegs are against your calf/anke area. Annoying unless you ditch them when not taking the missus.
No bead braker on the centre stand. The GS has this and it should be standard fitment in this segment. Unless youhave anotherbike with you, life can get tricky if you need to take the tyre off. Yes, the tyres are tubeless so a plug kit will work but i had Acacia thorns puncture the innner seal so the tyre had to come off. Truth is, BMW's rim design is about the best idea going.
Overall
Having recently ridden 3000kms from Malawi,down the Mozambique coast into South Africa and a 250kms dirt track along the Kruger National Park fence line as part of a total of 18000 kms riding around East Africa, i have to say i have grown a bit of a soft spot for the old girl. I've just had her serviced and new road biased tyres fitted and it's clear there were some niggles that needed addressing which dampened my enthusiasm for the bike initially. A loose headstock and squared off knobblies don't make for a fun ride it would seem.
But overall, given my choice was this or the GS Adventure, i think i made the right choice. The GSA is a bit of a old donkey (yes, i've ridden many) whereas the KTM is a fun bike to ride. It's a bit harder, less squishy and squidgy like the GSA so you need to ride it but in some ways thats part of the KTM DNA. Even with full luggage, panniers and tat on board, the 1190 will hustle like a sports tourer,eatup the miles with ease and give you a serious grin on the loose stuff.
I said she wasn't a keeper, but i might be changing my mind!!
Compared to the BMW it is far more Offroad focused, even more so with the R model. Aginst the GS it wins hands down in some areas, looses out in others. It really depends on the kind of riding you like and how you like your bikes to perform. Coming from absolute Superbikes, the GS/A was just too flaccid for my liking whereas the KTM has at least some semblage of sportiness and real off road ability. It'll keep up with all but a very well ridden Superbike when scratching around on a Sunday morning but can be loaded to the gunnels and will take you up the North face of the Eiger should you wish.
Off to Cahorra Bassa in Moz for some Tiger fishing
Trail Riding around Majete
End of 1100km Day 1 ride up to Malawi. Overnighted in Harare.
Grabbing a Pizza in Mulanje
Overlooking the Shire River from the Blantyre escarpment. 1000 meters vertical climb!
Rain + Dirt = This. A lot!! Thank heavens it's not a GSA!!
They'd sold out of Mars bars!!
Typical Country Village
Tiger Fishing Cahorra Bassa
Sand River Beds. Properly Hard and not for the faint of heart!
Potholes in Tete Province. 200kms of this!!
Riding through the clouds on Zomba Mountain
Mine is the normal rather than the R model and i have to amit to having mixed feelings about it.
The Good
The Engine. 150 bhp retuned RC8 motor and it really hauls. With TKC80 knobblies on, it will wheelspin under hard acceleration in 1st and 2nd. Whilst it's a giggle it doesn't help tyre life. GS's, old or new, won't see which way you went. It pulls cleanly from tickover to the 11k redline but things get seriously funky above 7k. Bit of a Jekyl and Hyde it's all sweetness and light below 7k and a bit RC8 bonkers above.
The Gearbox. Compared to the early RC8 boxes, it's still clunky but positive. No false neutrals even when riding offroad in Tech 8 boots. 6th could possibly be a little longer for cruising. 120kph see's around 5k on the tacho and i'd prefer to see that at 130ish. Although being a chain drive bike, the gearing is easily adjusted.
The Electronics. With 4 riding modes, switchable/offroad ABS and traction control it covers all the bases. There's even a dongle that can be fitted to cater for 80 octane fuel which came in very handy up in the north of Malawi where the fuel is suspect to say the least. The only downside is some of the modes require the bike to be stopped before changes can be made and the menu is a bit of a faff to negotiate. Would be far nicer to have a custom "preset' that has all the variables of your choosing set and can be called up on the go. For example, on dirt roadsor goat tracks, the ABS needs to be in 'Offroad' mode where the rear can be locked while the front is still under ABS supervision,the throttle needs to be in 'offroad' mode where it has a very long pull and power is reduced to 100 bhp and Traction Control needs to be off. Sounds simple enough but this can take a few minutes standing on the roadside setting up when a preset would allow instant set up on the fly. The traction control does clip the power quite considerably though. There's a massive diference between the motor's manners with TC off and even the Sport mode setting. It will permit a small wheelie but it's nothing compared to the when the motor is unrestrained. Right through the rev range,bottom to top, regardless of settings, the motor monsters the GS 1200. The motor will pull from standstill with a huge load and pillion with no drama or fuss,no need to rev it or slip the clutch, and with a very well calibrated throttle, there's no snatchiness or surging.
Tyre Pressure Monitoring. This is another handly little gadget, although the low pressure alarms when you drop the pressures for offroading are a tad tiresome.
Slipper Clutch. Nice to have but if the battery is dead, you won't be bumping it!! But especially good offroad with the weight of the bike on downhill sections though.
The Dash. Superb layout with an analogue rev counter and two digital displays. The right screen shows speed, gear, time, active modes etc whereas the left screen shows trip computers, menu settings etc. All controlled from a simple 4 way switch on the left bar.
The Headlight. For a motorcycle, the KTM headlight is superb. Sounds silly but spotlights are not required!
The Handling. True to KTM ethos, the 1190 isn't some wallowy old tractor. Even 2 up with luggage it really does handle well, and the Electronic Suspension is well set up for solo/solo+ luggage/solo + pillion/2 up + luggage. Again, easy to set via the menus.
Fuel Range/Economy. With the 23 litre tank, 400 kms is easily achieved. With a couple of 3 litre cans added to the luggage, nearer 500 kms is possible. Nice when we recently rode 460 kms between filling stations!!! It will out range the standard GS but needs a top up tank to match the GSA range.
The Brakes. Brembo. Linked ABS. Enough said!! Grab a serious handfull and the brakes are massively strong but have plenty of feel. Even the rear brake can be felt enough with MX boots to balance the bike with mild locking to get the rear sliding.
The Weight. At 212kgs, it weighs the same as a GS's front wheel!! Nice when you need to pick it up!!
Maintenance. With a minimum of tools the bike can be stripped down in the field quite easily. 8mm/10mm and the supplied Torx keys will sort out pretty much everything.
Accessory Wiring. There's a bunch of accessory plugs in the front that make wiring sat nav/accessories a snap. Some are controlled from the menu system,like the heated grips, while others are just a dedicated fused supply. Nicetouch
The Bad
The Side Stand. Apparently sorted on newer models,the side stand on early models was a joke, especially off road. It is too close to the bike when lowered with too small a foot and would sink in to anything other than concrete. Not uncommon to come back and you'd find your bike on its ear. Not cool. A 'Camel Toe' extension to the foot helps but things like this aren't acceptable on a bike like this.
The Engine Heat. This one is really poor. The heat from the rear cyclinder comes out under the seat behind your calf muscles and ROASTS your hamstrings area. Really not fun when you're riding in 45 degree heat already. There's panels available to shield the offending area so we'll see what effect they have but this isn't cool. Literally!!
The screen. No matter what position, if you're over 5 feet tall, the standard screen is a joke. Constant buffeting and noise, it simply isn't acceptable. How KTM ever signed this off is beyond me. They must employ 4' Pygmies as test riders. However, lots of options available but not sure you should have to change it in the first place
The Airbox. There's a known problem with the airbox not sealing and allowing dust & dirt into the engine. This has resulted in some new engines being fitted under warranty by KTM due to catastrophic damage. Fit the UniFilter kit with air snorkel filters, pre-filter with secondary main filter and aibox seal and you'll be sorted. May not apply to Guildford to Docklands commute, but if you ever get in the dirt, it's essential.
Niggles
The Suspension. Whilst KTM have set the bike up at the Sporty end of things, in my opinion, the compression and rebound valving are way off. In any of the modes with the ESA, everything just feels hard. Even in comfort mode, the valving slow, yet hard. Not tried a standard suspension model but i think the ride quality is some way off the BMW's especially on long road trips. However, as a caveat,i was riding on East Africa roads with TKC knobblies so i'll see how it feels on half decent roads before really deciding.
Reliability/Quality Control. Whilst my bike was pretty much faultless, there's a few niggles that need looking at. The primary is the headrace nut working loose which results in the bike feeling like it has a hinge in the middle or a slight headshake at speed. If you're off around the world, the C spanner tool would be adviseable as it's a very disconcerting thing.
KTM also decided to use the same bolts they use on their dirt bikes. Look cheap, corrode easily and don't belong on a bike in this price segment
The Indicator Switch. Small and lacks much positivity in its action but youdoget used to it
Ignition Key. Hidden low behind the top clamp it can be fiddly to get to with gloves on.
The Seat. I ride between 800 and 1200 kms a day and it's a tad on the hard side. Yet the pillion is as comfy as you like. KTM offer other seat options, even a heated seat, but they could do better with the standard fare.
Pillion Pegs. The mounting is such that if you stand back on the main pegs or move about alot offroad, the pillion pegs are against your calf/anke area. Annoying unless you ditch them when not taking the missus.
No bead braker on the centre stand. The GS has this and it should be standard fitment in this segment. Unless youhave anotherbike with you, life can get tricky if you need to take the tyre off. Yes, the tyres are tubeless so a plug kit will work but i had Acacia thorns puncture the innner seal so the tyre had to come off. Truth is, BMW's rim design is about the best idea going.
Overall
Having recently ridden 3000kms from Malawi,down the Mozambique coast into South Africa and a 250kms dirt track along the Kruger National Park fence line as part of a total of 18000 kms riding around East Africa, i have to say i have grown a bit of a soft spot for the old girl. I've just had her serviced and new road biased tyres fitted and it's clear there were some niggles that needed addressing which dampened my enthusiasm for the bike initially. A loose headstock and squared off knobblies don't make for a fun ride it would seem.
But overall, given my choice was this or the GS Adventure, i think i made the right choice. The GSA is a bit of a old donkey (yes, i've ridden many) whereas the KTM is a fun bike to ride. It's a bit harder, less squishy and squidgy like the GSA so you need to ride it but in some ways thats part of the KTM DNA. Even with full luggage, panniers and tat on board, the 1190 will hustle like a sports tourer,eatup the miles with ease and give you a serious grin on the loose stuff.
I said she wasn't a keeper, but i might be changing my mind!!
Compared to the BMW it is far more Offroad focused, even more so with the R model. Aginst the GS it wins hands down in some areas, looses out in others. It really depends on the kind of riding you like and how you like your bikes to perform. Coming from absolute Superbikes, the GS/A was just too flaccid for my liking whereas the KTM has at least some semblage of sportiness and real off road ability. It'll keep up with all but a very well ridden Superbike when scratching around on a Sunday morning but can be loaded to the gunnels and will take you up the North face of the Eiger should you wish.
Off to Cahorra Bassa in Moz for some Tiger fishing
Trail Riding around Majete
End of 1100km Day 1 ride up to Malawi. Overnighted in Harare.
Grabbing a Pizza in Mulanje
Overlooking the Shire River from the Blantyre escarpment. 1000 meters vertical climb!
Rain + Dirt = This. A lot!! Thank heavens it's not a GSA!!
They'd sold out of Mars bars!!
Typical Country Village
Tiger Fishing Cahorra Bassa
Sand River Beds. Properly Hard and not for the faint of heart!
Potholes in Tete Province. 200kms of this!!
Riding through the clouds on Zomba Mountain
Edited by bass gt3 on Friday 26th September 05:50
I have the Adventure version, 2014 model. Personally I think it's a real improvement over the previous one. It's more powerful, yet more economical. Very comfortable, and will certainly go off-road should you wish. It's a real pack-horse too. With the right tyres, off-roading becomes less of a challenge, until you drop it.
Or if you're short arse.
Or both.
Dealer support is very good with BMW, although I appreciate that some have had bad experiences, that is not the case for me. Worldwide support is excellent.
On the other hand, KTM has a relatively poor dealer network, especially in Scotland.
Is the KTM 1190 the better bike? I think it could be argued that if the on-road/off-road split is biased towards on-road, then the BMW is the better bike, but if the bias swings towords off-road, then the KTM would be the better choice.
If you want a bike to perform like a sports bike, then get a fking sports bike. A fully laden "Adventure Bike" is never going handle well, just that some handle surprisingly well considering their bulk.
I'm more than happy with mine, it's all the bike I want for now. It does what it says on the tin. There are bikes that can outperform it in certain aspects, but few can perform in as many guises as the GS.
Or if you're short arse.
Or both.
Dealer support is very good with BMW, although I appreciate that some have had bad experiences, that is not the case for me. Worldwide support is excellent.
On the other hand, KTM has a relatively poor dealer network, especially in Scotland.
Is the KTM 1190 the better bike? I think it could be argued that if the on-road/off-road split is biased towards on-road, then the BMW is the better bike, but if the bias swings towords off-road, then the KTM would be the better choice.
If you want a bike to perform like a sports bike, then get a f
king sports bike. A fully laden "Adventure Bike" is never going handle well, just that some handle surprisingly well considering their bulk.I'm more than happy with mine, it's all the bike I want for now. It does what it says on the tin. There are bikes that can outperform it in certain aspects, but few can perform in as many guises as the GS.
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