Proper Sports Tourers and the K1300S
Discussion
shoestring7 said:
In the company of the VFR and K1300S, it's completely outgunned. Also, the boxer twin gives a different feel to the V4/I4, which may not be to everyone's liking.Though I imagine it be more comfortable riding as the position is a lot more upright. I haven't tried the RS yet, but I've sat on the naked "R".
ZesPak said:
shoestring7 said:
In the company of the VFR and K1300S, it's completely outgunned. Also, the boxer twin gives a different feel to the V4/I4, which may not be to everyone's liking.Though I imagine it be more comfortable riding as the position is a lot more upright. I haven't tried the RS yet, but I've sat on the naked "R".
SS7
shoestring7 said:
Clearly its 125bhp, not 175bhp, but I suspect that is enough for most, unless you're trying to get from one end of Germany to the other as fast as possible. Otherwise its 50lb lighter than the K, and a fat mid-range is usable in a way that (say) 190bhp at 13,000rpm just isn't.
SS7
Having sat on K12s/13s/16GT back to back with an R12RT recently, it's a shock feeling the extra weight of the K bikes. It's not just the extra weight but also that on the R it's all very low down. Makes the R much easier to handle at low speed/standstill.SS7
Test rode a K1300S a few months ago. Was thinking about changing the bandit for something more interesting/fun/revvy.
Really, REALLY comfy bike. Felt like i could ride 300 miles in one hit without any aches/pains. The bandit sends by butt numb after 50 miles.
Stonking engine and the ESA was a nice feature.
Two things stood out though.
1) Build quality - as nice as it was, the switchgear felt inaccurate, and the whole thing screamed "when i go wrong i'll empty your wallet". It didn't feel as amazing as a £14K+ bike should.
2) Feedback through the front - not sure what causes it, but the front end gave me very little info about what was going on. Sure you'd get used to it, but it felt odd to me.
If it was a Honda (new blackbird?), and a few grand cheaper i'd have bought it and lived with the odd front end.
Also, the price put me off. The BMW dealer just kind of shrugged their shoulders when i asked about finance rates and was shocked to see 7%+ on there.
In the end i kept the bandit and bought a fireblade instead. However neither of those bikes can really cover the same breadth of ability as the K1300S. I'm now considering changing the bandit for a busa or ZZR14 in the spring, but not for a K13.
Really, REALLY comfy bike. Felt like i could ride 300 miles in one hit without any aches/pains. The bandit sends by butt numb after 50 miles.
Stonking engine and the ESA was a nice feature.
Two things stood out though.
1) Build quality - as nice as it was, the switchgear felt inaccurate, and the whole thing screamed "when i go wrong i'll empty your wallet". It didn't feel as amazing as a £14K+ bike should.
2) Feedback through the front - not sure what causes it, but the front end gave me very little info about what was going on. Sure you'd get used to it, but it felt odd to me.
If it was a Honda (new blackbird?), and a few grand cheaper i'd have bought it and lived with the odd front end.
Also, the price put me off. The BMW dealer just kind of shrugged their shoulders when i asked about finance rates and was shocked to see 7%+ on there.
In the end i kept the bandit and bought a fireblade instead. However neither of those bikes can really cover the same breadth of ability as the K1300S. I'm now considering changing the bandit for a busa or ZZR14 in the spring, but not for a K13.
dapearson said:
Test rode a K1300S a few months ago. Was thinking about changing the bandit for something more interesting/fun/revvy.
Really, REALLY comfy bike. Felt like i could ride 300 miles in one hit without any aches/pains. The bandit sends by butt numb after 50 miles.
Stonking engine and the ESA was a nice feature.
Two things stood out though.
1) Build quality - as nice as it was, the switchgear felt inaccurate, and the whole thing screamed "when i go wrong i'll empty your wallet". It didn't feel as amazing as a £14K+ bike should.
2) Feedback through the front - not sure what causes it, but the front end gave me very little info about what was going on. Sure you'd get used to it, but it felt odd to me.
If it was a Honda (new blackbird?), and a few grand cheaper i'd have bought it and lived with the odd front end.
Also, the price put me off. The BMW dealer just kind of shrugged their shoulders when i asked about finance rates and was shocked to see 7%+ on there.
In the end i kept the bandit and bought a fireblade instead. However neither of those bikes can really cover the same breadth of ability as the K1300S. I'm now considering changing the bandit for a busa or ZZR14 in the spring, but not for a K13.
I think you've hit the problem that a lot have with the K1300S. While it's not quite "as bad" as the boxer engined bikes and the GS in particular, it takes a while, and a realignment of your expectations, to get to understand what it does and just how well it does it. (See the post from Ade). The front end is just so different to teles that it is bound to have a totally different feel. For most (me included) it takes more than a quick test ride to "un-learn" what you've learnt to feel from teles and learn the feel that comes from the K front end. The feel is there, it's just very different.Really, REALLY comfy bike. Felt like i could ride 300 miles in one hit without any aches/pains. The bandit sends by butt numb after 50 miles.
Stonking engine and the ESA was a nice feature.
Two things stood out though.
1) Build quality - as nice as it was, the switchgear felt inaccurate, and the whole thing screamed "when i go wrong i'll empty your wallet". It didn't feel as amazing as a £14K+ bike should.
2) Feedback through the front - not sure what causes it, but the front end gave me very little info about what was going on. Sure you'd get used to it, but it felt odd to me.
If it was a Honda (new blackbird?), and a few grand cheaper i'd have bought it and lived with the odd front end.
Also, the price put me off. The BMW dealer just kind of shrugged their shoulders when i asked about finance rates and was shocked to see 7%+ on there.
In the end i kept the bandit and bought a fireblade instead. However neither of those bikes can really cover the same breadth of ability as the K1300S. I'm now considering changing the bandit for a busa or ZZR14 in the spring, but not for a K13.
I would also disagree with the build quality statement. The build quality is very good but the component quality is no where near as good as it should be. (Poor quality components bolted together extremely well!) The switch gear is undergoing a full free exchange from BMW (not a formal recall though!!!) which would help address your concerns but, for a brand that sells itself on it's quality, it's an issue they never should have had.
black-k1 said:
I would also disagree with the build quality statement. The build quality is very good but the component quality is no where near as good as it should be. (Poor quality components bolted together extremely well!) The switch gear is undergoing a full free exchange from BMW (not a formal recall though!!!) which would help address your concerns but, for a brand that sells itself on it's quality, it's an issue they never should have had.
It's one of the things I highlighted as well in my first post. When I put the K1300S next to the VFR1200F, this "problem" is really highlighted.While it might be OK on it's own, on a £14k+ bike, you'd expect more than "OK", and seeing as Honda does this with apparent ease, it's a bit of a disappointment from BMW seemingly cutting corners there.
But, the BMW does come with a comprehensive electronics package, while the Honda has no such thing
.I think the new r1200rs will be a cracking bike, very similar to a k1300s without being ballistically fast, but better luggage and ergonomics, cannot wait to test ride one when it comes out.
I totally agree with spare parts regarding the K, it does everything very well, it's no full dress tourer, it's no litre sportsbike like the s1000rr, but as a rounded bike it's amazing!
Very pleased with the service of bmw as well, ocean in plymouth are very good.
I totally agree with spare parts regarding the K, it does everything very well, it's no full dress tourer, it's no litre sportsbike like the s1000rr, but as a rounded bike it's amazing!
Very pleased with the service of bmw as well, ocean in plymouth are very good.
spareparts said:
Here's my take. I picked up a K13S HP (a K13S with all the toys + lots of carbon) in March of this year. Since then, I've done 6.5k miles. I bought it to do a big Eurotrip with 3DP, ChipChap and a few others across the Pyrenees, France, the Alps, Dolomites, etc. I later did a trip to the B500 in Germany, the Ring, and general hooning around the Eifel mountains. I also used it with MrsSpareparts as pillion down to France.
The key word about the K13 is compromise. You need to set your expectations about what it can do, what it might do, what it should do, and simply what it can't do.
If you try and ride it like an agile superbike, you will be disappointed. I did this for much of the Eurotrip earlier this year (last year I did the trip on the same Pyrenean roads on my 1098R), and I came away frustrated that it simply wasn't hustling as I knew I could ride the same roads on the R. In my frustration, I forgot that I still finished everyday completely ache free, and still managed to cover 350 daily non-motorway miles fully loaded up without really thinking, whilst sipping SUL at an average of 50mpg despite using full bore acceleration out of every 2nd gear turn.
On my second trip to Germany, it suddenly all clicked together. On fast flowing A roads, where you can sight the bends ahead, mentally prep the turn, tilt, don't lift, power through... the Hossack front end and immense stability make the K13S SUPREME. The bike flows beautifully between bends as you -guide- it like a cruise missile along any given road. It is very obvious that BMW engineered the K13 on the roads through Germany... it is genuinely perfect there. From Nurburg to Baden-Baden in 2hrs flat including a fill up, outside lane of the Autobahn, and traffic always moves out of the way as you cruise through at 150mph, totally unruffled and unstressed. On a very wet Ring, it was the best 2 wheeled bike you could ask for... ABS, TC, ESA... it all added up to a Ring-Eater. I was surprised that amongst S1000RRs, Panigales, and other superbikes, it was the K13S that the local Germans kept looking at and admiring. Chatting to a few of them, they all said that it was the king of roadsportbikes in their eye. That took me by surprise.
At high Autobahn speeds, 175miles to a tank. At slightly reduced 100mph cruise, and you still hit 200miles out of 17.5L. That is immense given the 175hp engine that is perfectly gauged for fast road use. The brakes are superb. Stability over badly surfaced roads is excellent. ESA is not a gimmick - as Black-K1 says, it works really well. On a drag against 3DP's ZZR14, the ZZR14 is faster - but only above 150mph where top end power really makes it power shown. Lower down, the K13S is quicker out of the turns - probably gearing+engine mapping.
Things to do: Fit a 25 or 31mm dogbone riser. Drill the fuel filler neck to allow faster fillups at the petrol station (the last 2L takes FOREVER to fill up if you don't). Fit a Sargent seat if you ride with a pillion - it makes it more comfortable for both, and stops the pillion pushing into you. Fit the optional centrestand... not for cleaning the non-existent chain, but because it makes loading up the panniers much easier and keeps the bike footprint down... leant over with panniers on, the bike takes up quite a bit of space.
What I don't like. The throttle action could be quicker - I'm used to the QAT on my 1098R and don't like not being able to rotate to the throttle stop without having to reposition the hand. In fact, the throttle needs to be electronified so you can add cruise control. A useful feature when you can easily cruise at 150mph for 175miles straight. The seat is very comfortable, but only if you grip with your knees... I have Stompgrips on mine that help. Otherwise, the seat slopes too far forward and slams your gonads. I don't like the integrated sport panniers much... they don't really hold enough, even though they look pretty and integrate with the lines of the bike absolutely perfectly. The kickstand has too small a footprint. Be careful if the tarmac is soft or ground not quite solid. The Ricardo-engineered engine gets buzzy around 7k rpm, and if you hold this rev range for over 30mins, your hands can get affected.
All round, it took me quite a few miles to get used to the K13. Now I am, it is simply tremendous as a very fast road bike that can easily take a passenger. But I am considering the LC GS12 as a replacement... why? Because for touring with a pillion, I think the K13 still places both of you in a relatively sporty position that isn't really the point of leisurely 2-up touring, and it doesn't provide enough luggage capacity for 2 for anything more than a 'biker weekend'. It is a spectacularly well compromised bike that allows you to ride at 85% of what you would on a superbike, cover huge mileage at warp speed, and allow you to arrive ache free. It has the necessary toys for comfort, effortless brakes, and the suspension and chassis allows for stability no matter the road conditions. Imho, I think it could well be the ultimate Solo-tourer.
With the filler, did you just drill a couple of small holes at the top of the filler or was it a take the tank of job?The key word about the K13 is compromise. You need to set your expectations about what it can do, what it might do, what it should do, and simply what it can't do.
If you try and ride it like an agile superbike, you will be disappointed. I did this for much of the Eurotrip earlier this year (last year I did the trip on the same Pyrenean roads on my 1098R), and I came away frustrated that it simply wasn't hustling as I knew I could ride the same roads on the R. In my frustration, I forgot that I still finished everyday completely ache free, and still managed to cover 350 daily non-motorway miles fully loaded up without really thinking, whilst sipping SUL at an average of 50mpg despite using full bore acceleration out of every 2nd gear turn.
On my second trip to Germany, it suddenly all clicked together. On fast flowing A roads, where you can sight the bends ahead, mentally prep the turn, tilt, don't lift, power through... the Hossack front end and immense stability make the K13S SUPREME. The bike flows beautifully between bends as you -guide- it like a cruise missile along any given road. It is very obvious that BMW engineered the K13 on the roads through Germany... it is genuinely perfect there. From Nurburg to Baden-Baden in 2hrs flat including a fill up, outside lane of the Autobahn, and traffic always moves out of the way as you cruise through at 150mph, totally unruffled and unstressed. On a very wet Ring, it was the best 2 wheeled bike you could ask for... ABS, TC, ESA... it all added up to a Ring-Eater. I was surprised that amongst S1000RRs, Panigales, and other superbikes, it was the K13S that the local Germans kept looking at and admiring. Chatting to a few of them, they all said that it was the king of roadsportbikes in their eye. That took me by surprise.
At high Autobahn speeds, 175miles to a tank. At slightly reduced 100mph cruise, and you still hit 200miles out of 17.5L. That is immense given the 175hp engine that is perfectly gauged for fast road use. The brakes are superb. Stability over badly surfaced roads is excellent. ESA is not a gimmick - as Black-K1 says, it works really well. On a drag against 3DP's ZZR14, the ZZR14 is faster - but only above 150mph where top end power really makes it power shown. Lower down, the K13S is quicker out of the turns - probably gearing+engine mapping.
Things to do: Fit a 25 or 31mm dogbone riser. Drill the fuel filler neck to allow faster fillups at the petrol station (the last 2L takes FOREVER to fill up if you don't). Fit a Sargent seat if you ride with a pillion - it makes it more comfortable for both, and stops the pillion pushing into you. Fit the optional centrestand... not for cleaning the non-existent chain, but because it makes loading up the panniers much easier and keeps the bike footprint down... leant over with panniers on, the bike takes up quite a bit of space.
What I don't like. The throttle action could be quicker - I'm used to the QAT on my 1098R and don't like not being able to rotate to the throttle stop without having to reposition the hand. In fact, the throttle needs to be electronified so you can add cruise control. A useful feature when you can easily cruise at 150mph for 175miles straight. The seat is very comfortable, but only if you grip with your knees... I have Stompgrips on mine that help. Otherwise, the seat slopes too far forward and slams your gonads. I don't like the integrated sport panniers much... they don't really hold enough, even though they look pretty and integrate with the lines of the bike absolutely perfectly. The kickstand has too small a footprint. Be careful if the tarmac is soft or ground not quite solid. The Ricardo-engineered engine gets buzzy around 7k rpm, and if you hold this rev range for over 30mins, your hands can get affected.
All round, it took me quite a few miles to get used to the K13. Now I am, it is simply tremendous as a very fast road bike that can easily take a passenger. But I am considering the LC GS12 as a replacement... why? Because for touring with a pillion, I think the K13 still places both of you in a relatively sporty position that isn't really the point of leisurely 2-up touring, and it doesn't provide enough luggage capacity for 2 for anything more than a 'biker weekend'. It is a spectacularly well compromised bike that allows you to ride at 85% of what you would on a superbike, cover huge mileage at warp speed, and allow you to arrive ache free. It has the necessary toys for comfort, effortless brakes, and the suspension and chassis allows for stability no matter the road conditions. Imho, I think it could well be the ultimate Solo-tourer.
Andybow said:
I think the new r1200rs will be a cracking bike, very similar to a k1300s without being ballistically fast, but better luggage and ergonomics, cannot wait to test ride one when it comes out.
I totally agree with spare parts regarding the K, it does everything very well, it's no full dress tourer, it's no litre sportsbike like the s1000rr, but as a rounded bike it's amazing!
Very pleased with the service of bmw as well, ocean in plymouth are very good.
I have just changed my order from S1000RX to R1200 RS and not fussed if I get to ride on as I feel it will be live a slightly more civilised version of my sold and sadly missed HP2 Sport.I totally agree with spare parts regarding the K, it does everything very well, it's no full dress tourer, it's no litre sportsbike like the s1000rr, but as a rounded bike it's amazing!
Very pleased with the service of bmw as well, ocean in plymouth are very good.
A
Back to back with the K13, the ZZR that I had was a faster package with more top end (that I used a surprising amount of on our 3000 mile Euro trip), but if the surface was mixed, the K13 with it's clever suspension had the advantage. The K13 also has much higher bars and the ZZR is not massively more comfy than a sports bike, although the wind protecion is better. This view was formed from following the K13 for a lot of miles rather than riding it.
On balance as a Sports Tourer, I think the K13 is hard to beat. The ZZR feels more like a heavy sports bike with luggage capacity and better wind protection.
You pays your money and all that, but if looking for a pure mile munching Sports tourer for riding at no more than eight tenths, I hate to say it, but the K13 is the better package I reckon.
For BassGT3 - I've seen your on-board vids - you can properly hustle on the road. What I found with the ZZR and will be the same with K13 is that you can't hide the weight and end up fighting it. Ride really hard and they are fooking tiring and very physical, albeit still able to do astounding stuff. I set fire to the brakes on mine and developed some very interest techniques for hammering around hairpins and tight bends, with ChipChap saying it looked hinged in the middle on some of the more open stuff. You can outride the bike, whereas a good sports bike makes the rider feel like the weak link most of the time.
On balance as a Sports Tourer, I think the K13 is hard to beat. The ZZR feels more like a heavy sports bike with luggage capacity and better wind protection.
You pays your money and all that, but if looking for a pure mile munching Sports tourer for riding at no more than eight tenths, I hate to say it, but the K13 is the better package I reckon.
For BassGT3 - I've seen your on-board vids - you can properly hustle on the road. What I found with the ZZR and will be the same with K13 is that you can't hide the weight and end up fighting it. Ride really hard and they are fooking tiring and very physical, albeit still able to do astounding stuff. I set fire to the brakes on mine and developed some very interest techniques for hammering around hairpins and tight bends, with ChipChap saying it looked hinged in the middle on some of the more open stuff. You can outride the bike, whereas a good sports bike makes the rider feel like the weak link most of the time.
Andybow said:
I think the new r1200rs will be a cracking bike, very similar to a k1300s without being ballistically fast, but better luggage and ergonomics, cannot wait to test ride one when it comes out.
I, like you, think the new R1200RS should be excellent although I REALLY REALLY wanted to like the R1200S but I thought it was a big let down when I rode one.My only worry is that a K1300S that's not "ballistically fast" will miss a big part of the point. For me, and I think a good many other K1300S owners, it's the fact that the K1300S can almost match the sports bikes at the top end, but do it while carrying luggage and a pillion in reasonable comfort that is a big part of the attraction.
Andybow said:
With the filler, did you just drill a couple of small holes at the top of the filler or was it a take the tank of job?
Details on how to do it here:http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?t=28824
shoestring7 said:
Came on this thread specifically to mention this bike. Sat on it at Cologne last week and can't wait to give it a test ride. Seems ideal especially if you don't have to give up the dedicated sports bike.Should be a chunk cheaper than the K1300S and VFR too.
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