Why do modern motorbikes not have abs

[Rawwr]

bogie said:

I thought the EU had made it mandatory or is that still not in effect yet?

every modern bike Ive ridden in the last 3 years has had ABS ...i guess you just need to choose carefully

I had the choice when I bought my Fireblade. I went with an ABS one.

[defblade]

Previous 2 bikes had ABS; in 4.5 years riding them, all weathers bar snow/ice, I never triggered it. Current bike doesn't, 'cos I was buying something slightly less common and the only one near me didn't have it.

Given the choice, I'd probably have it, but I don't really mind not. I find it's a lot easier to bleed non-abs brakes...

[Nigel Worc's]

I don't know why bikes are so far behind cars regarding technology and regulation.

I think cars have all had abs since 2004 or 2006, something like that.

I have the original Guzzi linked brake system, and it works very well, but I'd fit ABS in a heartbeat if it was feasible.

Quite why bikes still need separate front and rear brakes also alludes me, both controls could do the same thing, put the brakes on in a balanced fashion, like cars do!

[mickymellon1]

to me, rider aids get away from the whole purity of motorbikes with rider skill being the important thing in not coming off.
abs, different power settings, linked brakes, tcs should be an option but not made mandatory, I may change my mind when I get a S1000rr but so far I'm happy without and wouldn't spec it even if there wasn't a cost implication

[Nigel Worc's]

mickymellon1 said:

to me, rider aids get away from the whole purity of motorbikes with rider skill being the important thing in not coming off.
abs, different power settings, linked brakes, tcs should be an option but not made mandatory, I may change my mind when I get a S1000rr but so far I'm happy without and wouldn't spec it even if there wasn't a cost implication

You could feel the same regarding cars, but you wouldn't be able to buy a new one like it.

[black-k1]

Most of those who feel that ABS "gets in the way" or "spoils the feel" have never ridden a bike with ABS.

I've been riding bikes with ABS (and ones without ABS) for the last 25 years. There are two situations when you notice the ABS:

1. Occasionally when you're braking hard on a bumpy surface the ABS might kick in. It probably wasn't really needed but it's nothing more than a slight annoyance.

2. Occasionally when you're braking in an emergency situation on a less than perfect surface (wet, gravel, white lines, over banding etc.) or are slightly lent over for cornering. In those situation it stops what would almost definitely have been a crash situation.

With both situations, the key word is "occasionally" and I can't see any logical reason (and macho uninformed bullst doesn't count as logical) why anyone on the road would be happy to risk situation 2 for the sake of avoiding situation 1.

ABS on bikes works. Every study/test has shown that. ABS saves lives yet costs (in both price and riding "feel") very little.

[thatdude]

It adds weight and complexity, and ABS for a motorcycle is more difficult to sort out than ABS for a car - get it wrong and the ABS action could cause a bigger crash than without ABS. There's similar reasons for traction control systems, it's just so very complicated on a motorcycle.

I often wonder why motorcycles arnt fitted with heated grips as standard. You get all sorts of creature comforts in high-end sports cars, yet on a sports bike you get the bare minimum. Even stock screens are often too low to provide adequate protection.

And while we're at it, what about adjustable footpegs, saddles, all sorts? I can move my car seat into a billion different positions (yet only one is comfortable). Why cant I have the option to get pissed off with my seating position on my bike?

[black-k1]

thatdude said:

It adds weight and complexity, and ABS for a motorcycle is more difficult to sort out than ABS for a car - get it wrong and the ABS action could cause a bigger crash than without ABS. There's similar reasons for traction control systems, it's just so very complicated on a motorcycle.

I often wonder why motorcycles arnt fitted with heated grips as standard. You get all sorts of creature comforts in high-end sports cars, yet on a sports bike you get the bare minimum. Even stock screens are often too low to provide adequate protection.

And while we're at it, what about adjustable footpegs, saddles, all sorts? I can move my car seat into a billion different positions (yet only one is comfortable). Why cant I have the option to get pissed off with my seating position on my bike?

The weight it adds is negligible, and is in a pretty reasonable location (Lowish, between the axels etc.) and it's probably less extra weight than most riders are carrying around their middle!!

ABS on bikes has been right since the late 1980's so your "bigger crash" comment, while maybe technically correct, simply doesn't apply.

As for adding complexity, I don't disagree, but so did automatic advance and retard, electric lights and indicators, electronic ignition, fuel injection etc. Again, it's a proven technology that has been in use successfully for over 25 years.

I agree that the options and adjustments you get as standard on most bikes are pitiful. The difference with ABS, and to a lesser degree traction control, is that their not "added comforts" keep your hands warm or bum comfy but safety devices that may well save your life.

[Hooli]

I'd argue that. Warm hands are a safety feature, I almost had a bigger crash because my hands were too cold to pull the brake than I ever have nearly had due to locking a wheel.

[moanthebairns]

I always said I don't need ABS or TC on my 600's.

After having a crash similar to the one that recently was shown on here (the poor chap who had a clio pull out on him) I gets me thinking, would I want ABS or would ABS have saved me from a crash?

The area was investigated after the crash and it showed no signs of lock up. I braked so hard in a panic (not so much of a panic but more autopilot) that the rear came up and the front tucked. Would ABS have saved this crash?

I have no problems with ABS on the road, from what I've read its no where near as intrusive as a cars ABS. My skoda's ABS kicks in a lot on heavy braking. The problem of this with me is that I subconsciously lift my foot of the brake, then reapply defeating the purpose of ABS. It took me quite a while to ignore Traction control on the car as well.

I guess if it kicks in on heavy braking (panic braking) then it really isn't an issue.

[srob]

ABS isnt new technology. I have it on my 1920s bikes. In fact, the ABS is so efficient you can pull the front brake on fully and still push the bike!

Imagine how safe you'd be on that one OP

[Mr2Mike]

black-k1 said:

The weight it adds is negligible, and is in a pretty reasonable location (Lowish, between the axels etc.) and it's probably less extra weight than most riders are carrying around their middle!!

If buying an ABS eqipped bike means you automatically lose weight to compensate then I'm feeling much more keen to buy one.

black-k1 said:

ABS on bikes has been right since the late 1980's so your "bigger crash" comment, while maybe technically correct, simply doesn't apply.

I don't believe that for a second. Really good ABS on cars was an absolute rarity back then, so getting it spot on for a bike wasn't going to happen.

black-k1 said:

As for adding complexity, I don't disagree, but so did automatic advance and retard, electric lights and indicators, electronic ignition, fuel injection etc. Again, it's a proven technology that has been in use successfully for over 25 years.

No, it might have been fitted to one or two bikes 25 years ago, but it's only been a common fitment in the last 5 years or so.

Just thinking back I have never binned a bike on a road by locking up the front wheel, and surely any half decent rider would instinctively back off if the front started to lock? On a car you don't have individual control of all the brakes like you do on a bike so the argument is stronger for them. I suspect the same thing will happen with cars as with bikes, learn on something equipped with numerous rider aids and you'll start to rely on them, and be a liability if you ride something without them.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Thursday 2nd October 10:01

[ccr32]

MK3 Dan said:

btdk5 said:

MK3 Dan said:

Im sure it is something that will cause discussions/arguments but everyone that I know within club racing that has access to things like ABS and traction control switch them off (ZX10R etc) as it hinders progress in the dry.

Surely this shows that if the rider skill is high enough then they are not required?

Me on the other hand, will make the most of any extra help I can get!

You don't really get people pulling out from a side road on track though....

Im not saying you do, but I bet they are braking just as dam hard ;-)

And they find it intrusive! Like I said I will take it and I am sure in the right conditions its perfect but I am indicating that there may actually be times when a skilled rider can still out smart the electronics in the right conditions.

Ron Haslam doesn't mind it...
http://www.visordown.com/advanced-riding/kneedown-...

[black-k1]

Mr2Mike said:

Just thinking back I have never binned a bike on a road by locking up the front wheel, and surely any half decent rider would instinctively back off if the front started to lock? On a car you don't have individual control of all the brakes like you do on a bike so the argument is stronger for them. I suspect the same thing will happen with cars as with bikes, learn on something equipped with numerous rider aids and you'll start to rely on them, and be a liability if you ride something without them.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Thursday 2nd October 10:01

... and many smokers haven't got cancer so smoking for them must be safe!

The "rely on" argument is crap. To actually use the ABS you have to have gone beyond the limit of braking capability for that given situation. No one (who survives more than a few days) regularly pushes their braking to the point of losing grip. In fact, the opposite may be true. Most riders do not use enough of their braking capability for fear of locking up(particularly the front end.). ABS allows riders to explore the limits of just how good their brakes are without the fear of a face plant in the tarmac.

This is ancient but just as relevant today as it was then. Very worth a read ... http://www.ibmwr.org/prodreview/abstests.html

[toxgobbler]

jackh707 said:

Spot on.

I don't feel the need in summer with warm sticky tyres... But I'd rather have it than not.

Rest of the year, cold tyres, wet/diesel ABS all the way.

It's saved me many times commuting through city centres in winter.

This with me too, I don't believe it should be mandatory, I choose to have it and have had on my last 5 bikes sometimes as it's been included and other times as I have had an option fitted, it has kept me shiny side up on more than one occasion in London when muppet pedestrians dart out between buses. I have traction control as well, although it has never engaged with my riding (except when I went off road and forgot to turn it off)

[Hooli]

srob said:

ABS isnt new technology. I have it on my 1920s bikes. In fact, the ABS is so efficient you can pull the front brake on fully and still push the bike!

Imagine how safe you'd be on that one OP

[GrumpyTwig]

I presume ABS stops you sliding the back around a bit under braking by biasing too much force to the rear as it'd just kick in the ABS?


Terribly droll and mature imo, not at all any place on something with two wheels. Next they'll be telling you what to wear....

[srob]

GrumpyTwig said:

I presume ABS stops you sliding the back around a bit under braking by biasing too much force to the rear as it'd just kick in the ABS?


Terribly droll and mature imo, not at all any place on something with two wheels. Next they'll be telling you what to wear....

Does ABS work on the rear or just the front?

[Richyboy]

The good thing about abs is it will get more people into biking, surely that can't be a bad thing.

[black-k1]

srob said:

GrumpyTwig said:

I presume ABS stops you sliding the back around a bit under braking by biasing too much force to the rear as it'd just kick in the ABS?


Terribly droll and mature imo, not at all any place on something with two wheels. Next they'll be telling you what to wear....

Does ABS work on the rear or just the front?

Both