Why do modern motorbikes not have abs
Discussion
Richyboy said:
The good thing about abs is it will get more people into biking, surely that can't be a bad thing.
Really? I'm not seeing it. I think the things putting most people off two wheels are more based around the aspects of being exposed to the elements and to anything that hits you, even the fact it's more physical to ride a bike and lounge back in your heated leather saloon.Did the onset of ABS in cars get more people driving cars, or just more people driving cars with ABS?
moanthebairns said:
I always said I don't need ABS or TC on my 600's.
After having a crash similar to the one that recently was shown on here (the poor chap who had a clio pull out on him) I gets me thinking, would I want ABS or would ABS have saved me from a crash?
The area was investigated after the crash and it showed no signs of lock up. I braked so hard in a panic (not so much of a panic but more autopilot) that the rear came up and the front tucked. Would ABS have saved this crash?
I have no problems with ABS on the road, from what I've read its no where near as intrusive as a cars ABS. My skoda's ABS kicks in a lot on heavy braking. The problem of this with me is that I subconsciously lift my foot of the brake, then reapply defeating the purpose of ABS. It took me quite a while to ignore Traction control on the car as well.
I guess if it kicks in on heavy braking (panic braking) then it really isn't an issue.
As I recall, the road was dry when you were assaulted by a Mondeo. Had the road been wet, you may well have dropped it before impact. So to speak. After having a crash similar to the one that recently was shown on here (the poor chap who had a clio pull out on him) I gets me thinking, would I want ABS or would ABS have saved me from a crash?
The area was investigated after the crash and it showed no signs of lock up. I braked so hard in a panic (not so much of a panic but more autopilot) that the rear came up and the front tucked. Would ABS have saved this crash?
I have no problems with ABS on the road, from what I've read its no where near as intrusive as a cars ABS. My skoda's ABS kicks in a lot on heavy braking. The problem of this with me is that I subconsciously lift my foot of the brake, then reapply defeating the purpose of ABS. It took me quite a while to ignore Traction control on the car as well.
I guess if it kicks in on heavy braking (panic braking) then it really isn't an issue.
ABS would have allowed you to stay upright, but you'd still have hit the Mondeo at a higher speed.
Surprised that no-one has mentioned Cornering ABS yet. Standard on current KTM 1190 models I believe, and can be retro fitted to some models. BMW are offering it as an option soon.
Too much?
Mad Jock said:
moanthebairns said:
I always said I don't need ABS or TC on my 600's.
After having a crash similar to the one that recently was shown on here (the poor chap who had a clio pull out on him) I gets me thinking, would I want ABS or would ABS have saved me from a crash?
The area was investigated after the crash and it showed no signs of lock up. I braked so hard in a panic (not so much of a panic but more autopilot) that the rear came up and the front tucked. Would ABS have saved this crash?
I have no problems with ABS on the road, from what I've read its no where near as intrusive as a cars ABS. My skoda's ABS kicks in a lot on heavy braking. The problem of this with me is that I subconsciously lift my foot of the brake, then reapply defeating the purpose of ABS. It took me quite a while to ignore Traction control on the car as well.
I guess if it kicks in on heavy braking (panic braking) then it really isn't an issue.
As I recall, the road was dry when you were assaulted by a Mondeo. Had the road been wet, you may well have dropped it before impact. So to speak. After having a crash similar to the one that recently was shown on here (the poor chap who had a clio pull out on him) I gets me thinking, would I want ABS or would ABS have saved me from a crash?
The area was investigated after the crash and it showed no signs of lock up. I braked so hard in a panic (not so much of a panic but more autopilot) that the rear came up and the front tucked. Would ABS have saved this crash?
I have no problems with ABS on the road, from what I've read its no where near as intrusive as a cars ABS. My skoda's ABS kicks in a lot on heavy braking. The problem of this with me is that I subconsciously lift my foot of the brake, then reapply defeating the purpose of ABS. It took me quite a while to ignore Traction control on the car as well.
I guess if it kicks in on heavy braking (panic braking) then it really isn't an issue.
ABS would have allowed you to stay upright, but you'd still have hit the Mondeo at a higher speed.
Surprised that no-one has mentioned Cornering ABS yet. Standard on current KTM 1190 models I believe, and can be retro fitted to some models. BMW are offering it as an option soon.
Too much?
Does ABS allow only a maximum amount of pressure to be applied thus resulting in not loading the front and the rear rising, causing a trip over the bars.
crofty1984 said:
Quick Jeeves! Pull the suggestion of retardation lever!
That reminds me of the first time i road the old chaps 1950's bike. as i pulled off the drive he said just try the front brake to get a feel for it.. Just as well i did as I only just stopped at the traffic lights 100metres away and i was only doing 10 mph..the rear is just as useless the other way.. touch it and the rear locks,the bike doesnt slow any as the tyres have so little grip... its onl a 172 and the scariest thing ive ever ridden...
Im using abs and tcs as the excuse to buy a new bike with it...
Mad Jock said:
As I recall, the road was dry when you were assaulted by a Mondeo. Had the road been wet, you may well have dropped it before impact. So to speak.
ABS would have allowed you to stay upright, but you'd still have hit the Mondeo at a higher speed.
Surprised that no-one has mentioned Cornering ABS yet. Standard on current KTM 1190 models I believe, and can be retro fitted to some models. BMW are offering it as an option soon.
Too much?
That cornering ABS system needs to make its way onto more bikes, and fast - from the vids I've seen it cuts out the tendancy for a bike to stand up and go straight on when hauling on the brakes mid corner, and as we've seen from videos, that can cause a trip over the other side of the road, in front of a car, over a wall and down a hillside... ABS would have allowed you to stay upright, but you'd still have hit the Mondeo at a higher speed.
Surprised that no-one has mentioned Cornering ABS yet. Standard on current KTM 1190 models I believe, and can be retro fitted to some models. BMW are offering it as an option soon.
Too much?
moanthebairns said:
I never hit the Mondeo I hit the road furniture.
Does ABS allow only a maximum amount of pressure to be applied thus resulting in not loading the front and the rear rising, causing a trip over the bars.
As ABS basically works by comparing front wheel and rear wheel speeds, if it detects that the front is turning slower than the rear, or vice versa, it releases the brake pressure on the slower wheel, within limits, allowing it to turn again. As a locked tyre has lost it's grip, releasing the brake allows the tyre to grip again, and the brakes are re-applied.Does ABS allow only a maximum amount of pressure to be applied thus resulting in not loading the front and the rear rising, causing a trip over the bars.
Some ABS systems won't work below a certain speed, around 15 to 20 mph.
Traction control works in the same way, except the other way round. It detects if the rear is spinning faster than the front, and compensates by interrupting the ignition.
If, in your case, the rear of your bike is rising, the bike is effectively rotating around your front tyre, so long as it still has grip. Lose that grip, and therefore the retardation, and the bike will more than likely drop it's rear (ooh er) back on the deck. Whether ABS would alone prevent a stoppie, I have no idea. I really don't want to test that.
The sensors that activate anti-wheelie I suppose could work with the brakes/ABS to act as anti-stoppie.
Mad Jock said:
moanthebairns said:
I never hit the Mondeo I hit the road furniture.
Does ABS allow only a maximum amount of pressure to be applied thus resulting in not loading the front and the rear rising, causing a trip over the bars.
As ABS basically works by comparing front wheel and rear wheel speeds, if it detects that the front is turning slower than the rear, or vice versa, it releases the brake pressure on the slower wheel, within limits, allowing it to turn again. As a locked tyre has lost it's grip, releasing the brake allows the tyre to grip again, and the brakes are re-applied.Does ABS allow only a maximum amount of pressure to be applied thus resulting in not loading the front and the rear rising, causing a trip over the bars.
Some ABS systems won't work below a certain speed, around 15 to 20 mph.
Traction control works in the same way, except the other way round. It detects if the rear is spinning faster than the front, and compensates by interrupting the ignition.
If, in your case, the rear of your bike is rising, the bike is effectively rotating around your front tyre, so long as it still has grip. Lose that grip, and therefore the retardation, and the bike will more than likely drop it's rear (ooh er) back on the deck. Whether ABS would alone prevent a stoppie, I have no idea. I really don't want to test that.
The sensors that activate anti-wheelie I suppose could work with the brakes/ABS to act as anti-stoppie.
I assume that it would apply the brakes in a fashion as not to induce a stoppie in the first place.
But can anyone confirm that. I've had the rear skid loads but never the front.
Mad Jock said:
moanthebairns said:
I never hit the Mondeo I hit the road furniture.
Does ABS allow only a maximum amount of pressure to be applied thus resulting in not loading the front and the rear rising, causing a trip over the bars.
As ABS basically works by comparing front wheel and rear wheel speeds, if it detects that the front is turning slower than the rear, or vice versa, it releases the brake pressure on the slower wheel, within limits, allowing it to turn again. As a locked tyre has lost it's grip, releasing the brake allows the tyre to grip again, and the brakes are re-applied.Does ABS allow only a maximum amount of pressure to be applied thus resulting in not loading the front and the rear rising, causing a trip over the bars.
Some ABS systems won't work below a certain speed, around 15 to 20 mph.
Traction control works in the same way, except the other way round. It detects if the rear is spinning faster than the front, and compensates by interrupting the ignition.
If, in your case, the rear of your bike is rising, the bike is effectively rotating around your front tyre, so long as it still has grip. Lose that grip, and therefore the retardation, and the bike will more than likely drop it's rear (ooh er) back on the deck. Whether ABS would alone prevent a stoppie, I have no idea. I really don't want to test that.
The sensors that activate anti-wheelie I suppose could work with the brakes/ABS to act as anti-stoppie.
Tall_Paul said:
That cornering ABS system needs to make its way onto more bikes, and fast - from the vids I've seen it cuts out the tendancy for a bike to stand up and go straight on when hauling on the brakes mid corner, and as we've seen from videos, that can cause a trip over the other side of the road, in front of a car, over a wall and down a hillside...
I have an 1190 with this system fitted and it's pretty amazing. I have had to grab a handful whilst leant over and i can say the ABS kicked in yet the bike kept it's course. No standing up and heading for a hedge, nothing. Very impressive system and should be standard/mandatory on all bikes really.Test rode a duke 690 last year. Absolutely pissing down, horrible day.
Some wally decides he'll be crossing the road, right in front of me (25 mph ish) reckon I'm going to hit him as he was only a few metres away. Got the choice of swerving hard, almost certainly going to come off and take his legs out with the bike, or brake, lock the front, and probably take his legs out with the bike at a slower speed. So I slam on.. only to stop millimeters from him, may have tapped him with the front tyre even.
He said 'I didn't think you were going to stop!'
'Neither did I mate. .'
Didn't know it had ABS! Salesman only told me when I got back to the shop. Result.
Some wally decides he'll be crossing the road, right in front of me (25 mph ish) reckon I'm going to hit him as he was only a few metres away. Got the choice of swerving hard, almost certainly going to come off and take his legs out with the bike, or brake, lock the front, and probably take his legs out with the bike at a slower speed. So I slam on.. only to stop millimeters from him, may have tapped him with the front tyre even.
He said 'I didn't think you were going to stop!'
'Neither did I mate. .'
Didn't know it had ABS! Salesman only told me when I got back to the shop. Result.
Mad Jock said:
As ABS basically works by comparing front wheel and rear wheel speeds, if it detects that the front is turning slower than the rear, or vice versa, it releases the brake pressure on the slower wheel, within limits, allowing it to turn again. As a locked tyre has lost it's grip, releasing the brake allows the tyre to grip again, and the brakes are re-applied.
Some ABS systems won't work below a certain speed, around 15 to 20 mph.
Traction control works in the same way, except the other way round. It detects if the rear is spinning faster than the front, and compensates by interrupting the ignition.
If, in your case, the rear of your bike is rising, the bike is effectively rotating around your front tyre, so long as it still has grip. Lose that grip, and therefore the retardation, and the bike will more than likely drop it's rear (ooh er) back on the deck. Whether ABS would alone prevent a stoppie, I have no idea. I really don't want to test that.
The sensors that activate anti-wheelie I suppose could work with the brakes/ABS to act as anti-stoppie.
Sorry but none of that is true.Some ABS systems won't work below a certain speed, around 15 to 20 mph.
Traction control works in the same way, except the other way round. It detects if the rear is spinning faster than the front, and compensates by interrupting the ignition.
If, in your case, the rear of your bike is rising, the bike is effectively rotating around your front tyre, so long as it still has grip. Lose that grip, and therefore the retardation, and the bike will more than likely drop it's rear (ooh er) back on the deck. Whether ABS would alone prevent a stoppie, I have no idea. I really don't want to test that.
The sensors that activate anti-wheelie I suppose could work with the brakes/ABS to act as anti-stoppie.
ABS works by detecting the rate of deceleration on a wheel not differences front to rear.
trickywoo said:
Mad Jock said:
As ABS basically works by comparing front wheel and rear wheel speeds, if it detects that the front is turning slower than the rear, or vice versa, it releases the brake pressure on the slower wheel, within limits, allowing it to turn again. As a locked tyre has lost it's grip, releasing the brake allows the tyre to grip again, and the brakes are re-applied.
Some ABS systems won't work below a certain speed, around 15 to 20 mph.
Traction control works in the same way, except the other way round. It detects if the rear is spinning faster than the front, and compensates by interrupting the ignition.
If, in your case, the rear of your bike is rising, the bike is effectively rotating around your front tyre, so long as it still has grip. Lose that grip, and therefore the retardation, and the bike will more than likely drop it's rear (ooh er) back on the deck. Whether ABS would alone prevent a stoppie, I have no idea. I really don't want to test that.
The sensors that activate anti-wheelie I suppose could work with the brakes/ABS to act as anti-stoppie.
Sorry but none of that is true.Some ABS systems won't work below a certain speed, around 15 to 20 mph.
Traction control works in the same way, except the other way round. It detects if the rear is spinning faster than the front, and compensates by interrupting the ignition.
If, in your case, the rear of your bike is rising, the bike is effectively rotating around your front tyre, so long as it still has grip. Lose that grip, and therefore the retardation, and the bike will more than likely drop it's rear (ooh er) back on the deck. Whether ABS would alone prevent a stoppie, I have no idea. I really don't want to test that.
The sensors that activate anti-wheelie I suppose could work with the brakes/ABS to act as anti-stoppie.
ABS works by detecting the rate of deceleration on a wheel not differences front to rear.
doesn't the blackbird have linked braking, or some honda
moanthebairns said:
unless its linked braking
doesn't the blackbird have linked braking, or some honda
Makes no difference. ABS systems use rate of deceleration as the basis for modulating pressure.doesn't the blackbird have linked braking, or some honda
There may be other sensors in the loop detecting rear wheel lift in addition and releasing front brake pressure to bring it down etc.
trickywoo said:
Sorry but none of that is true.
ABS works by detecting the rate of deceleration on a wheel not differences front to rear.
How does that work then? Surely in the dry the wheel will be decelerating much faster (because of higher grip) than in the wet, but ABS will still activate in the wet.ABS works by detecting the rate of deceleration on a wheel not differences front to rear.
Or does it just detect the sudden slowing of the wheel when it's about to lock up?
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