Honda VRX400 1995 "barn find" restoration
Discussion
This is the cover for the front sprocket, and was thick with oily gunge inside ... it took far far too long in the parts washer and white spirit to clean it up. Bit of a gouge there where the chain (?) has hit the inside, but it's fine.
Whipped the rocker covers off, things look visually pretty healthy in there. Decided to put the covers back on though whilst I continue to clean the outside of the engine, to stop crud getting inside.
This is the rubber chain guide that goes on the swing arm ... it was so covered in more oily gunge I didn't even realise it was there ! Just derusting and painting two small mounting washer type things that hold it on.
Whipped the rocker covers off, things look visually pretty healthy in there. Decided to put the covers back on though whilst I continue to clean the outside of the engine, to stop crud getting inside.
This is the rubber chain guide that goes on the swing arm ... it was so covered in more oily gunge I didn't even realise it was there ! Just derusting and painting two small mounting washer type things that hold it on.
So ... this whole restoration was, as I've said before, a learning exercise. Here's where I own up to my first mistake ..
Decided to do a (cold) compression test. 140 psi on the rear, 180 on the front ... oh dear, that's a bit out, even by the manual's quite generous 30 psi difference allowance (normally anything over 10% is bad)
Rang a local classic bike place (www.northleicestermotorcycles.com) and had a long, very useful chat with a very friendly chap there (bearing in mind, I'm not an existing customer ... he was full of advice and time). He recons that as the bike's not been used for 5 years, whatever valve was in the down position has got some surface corrosion on the mating surface.
His first thing was that he'd have taken it for a long, hard blast. I explained that wasn't possible (smashed wheel, no brakes etc). But he actually talked me out of bringing the engine in (I was prepared to take the engine to be looked at) ... he said that either the valve just needs relapping, or more likely, a good old blast will just clear it out. So at the moment I think I'm erring towards saving myself a couple of hundred pounds, taking a gamble, and just putting the engine back in the bike and hoping that it will be okay once run for a bit (though it's a bit of a pain to get out !). That's what he advised anyway.
My mistake, however, was the following ... when I explained the fact I got it running albeit lumpy, he said that I should have persevered and got it running better before stripping the bike. He said one of his favourite sayings ... "95% of carb problems are electrical". Or in other words, he thinks it's probably unlikely that the rough running was down to the carbs and dirt etc, probably more like an electrical issue of some kind.
Oh well, you live, you learn. For anyone else, next time try harder to get it running well before stripping ...
So I've been consoling myself with the mucky job of trying to clean up the engine. I've also been ordering and testing a variety of VHT paints, to try and find a silver that's close to the original block colour. The sprocket is knackered and needs replacing.
Also ... FRAME'S BACK !
Very very pleased with the frame itself, superb job, can't fault it (for £80) and I'm a picky bugger. There's not even any powder coating on any threads or holes, they seem to have contentiously blocked any hole that might get clogged up with powder.
However, I'm not so happy with the swing arm ... nothing the powder coaters have done wrong, but after blasting the rust damage (which I knew was there) was much worse than I thought ... there's patches with heavy rust damage (which needs filling really) and on the underside the metal's so thin it's peppered through. Should be an easily welded on plate, but just more work than I was expecting. So I think I'm going to cut out and replace the under side (plate), strip the swing arm again back to bare metal, then fill the rusty areas, prime and paint gloss black. The frame will be powder coated, the swing arm painted.
Decided to do a (cold) compression test. 140 psi on the rear, 180 on the front ... oh dear, that's a bit out, even by the manual's quite generous 30 psi difference allowance (normally anything over 10% is bad)
Rang a local classic bike place (www.northleicestermotorcycles.com) and had a long, very useful chat with a very friendly chap there (bearing in mind, I'm not an existing customer ... he was full of advice and time). He recons that as the bike's not been used for 5 years, whatever valve was in the down position has got some surface corrosion on the mating surface.
His first thing was that he'd have taken it for a long, hard blast. I explained that wasn't possible (smashed wheel, no brakes etc). But he actually talked me out of bringing the engine in (I was prepared to take the engine to be looked at) ... he said that either the valve just needs relapping, or more likely, a good old blast will just clear it out. So at the moment I think I'm erring towards saving myself a couple of hundred pounds, taking a gamble, and just putting the engine back in the bike and hoping that it will be okay once run for a bit (though it's a bit of a pain to get out !). That's what he advised anyway.
My mistake, however, was the following ... when I explained the fact I got it running albeit lumpy, he said that I should have persevered and got it running better before stripping the bike. He said one of his favourite sayings ... "95% of carb problems are electrical". Or in other words, he thinks it's probably unlikely that the rough running was down to the carbs and dirt etc, probably more like an electrical issue of some kind.
Oh well, you live, you learn. For anyone else, next time try harder to get it running well before stripping ...
So I've been consoling myself with the mucky job of trying to clean up the engine. I've also been ordering and testing a variety of VHT paints, to try and find a silver that's close to the original block colour. The sprocket is knackered and needs replacing.
Also ... FRAME'S BACK !
Very very pleased with the frame itself, superb job, can't fault it (for £80) and I'm a picky bugger. There's not even any powder coating on any threads or holes, they seem to have contentiously blocked any hole that might get clogged up with powder.
However, I'm not so happy with the swing arm ... nothing the powder coaters have done wrong, but after blasting the rust damage (which I knew was there) was much worse than I thought ... there's patches with heavy rust damage (which needs filling really) and on the underside the metal's so thin it's peppered through. Should be an easily welded on plate, but just more work than I was expecting. So I think I'm going to cut out and replace the under side (plate), strip the swing arm again back to bare metal, then fill the rusty areas, prime and paint gloss black. The frame will be powder coated, the swing arm painted.
So had little progress over the last week or two due to the festive season, but had a solid day on the bike today.
Started by cutting out the rusted-thin area on the swing arm. Glad I did, as this lot fell out ...
Inside it looks reasonably okay, though a bit thinner in places than the factory intended. It's currently drying under a coat of Kurust, and tomorrow I'll etch prime as much of the inside as I can. Once the bike's back together I'll waxoyl inside too.
Following best Project Binky principles, I made a new plate to cover the hole using CAD (Cardboard Aided Design). This plate is cut out now, and also drying from a coat of etch primer on the inside. Welding it on is going to have to wait however ... after 15 years of inactivity my MIG welder is terminal, so I'm going to have to purchase a new one.
Attention turned to the engine. I've been cleaning years of black kack off the sprocket area on and off recently. This has left a clean, but oxidised block.
This area was proper kacky. I've decided that once the engine is back together, before I put it back in the frame I'm going to fill it with oil and just check that none of the seals in this area seep. The oil filter was a right bugger to get off.
About four hours, and numerous different shaped wire wheels, wire drill bits, emery paper and various shaped hand wire brushes later the block is pretty much free of loose oxidisation and paint. Had a headache after that, and choked on dust, but at least I have a solid base to repaint.
A good degrease and blow dry later ...
Note I'm leaving all the alloy covers on (e.g. rocker, clutch etc) for now, to stop dirt going into the engine. These will come off and go off to the polishers once the engine's been painted.
Then I used a paintbrush and thinners to 'wash' and wipe down the block (still got more of that to come, stopped as it wasn't helping the headache)
I'm going to have to paint the engine in sections. Masking up of items that can't be removed takes a while. A quick test spray of two different kinds of VHT paint ... I think I'm preferring the one on the left (Halfraud's "aluminium") as it has the nearest slightly grey colour I can find to the original paint. The one on the right's a bit too silvery for my taste, I think. Note some bolts I'm not bothering to mask up ... I'll individually remove and replace those when I have replacements.
Started by cutting out the rusted-thin area on the swing arm. Glad I did, as this lot fell out ...
Inside it looks reasonably okay, though a bit thinner in places than the factory intended. It's currently drying under a coat of Kurust, and tomorrow I'll etch prime as much of the inside as I can. Once the bike's back together I'll waxoyl inside too.
Following best Project Binky principles, I made a new plate to cover the hole using CAD (Cardboard Aided Design). This plate is cut out now, and also drying from a coat of etch primer on the inside. Welding it on is going to have to wait however ... after 15 years of inactivity my MIG welder is terminal, so I'm going to have to purchase a new one.
Attention turned to the engine. I've been cleaning years of black kack off the sprocket area on and off recently. This has left a clean, but oxidised block.
This area was proper kacky. I've decided that once the engine is back together, before I put it back in the frame I'm going to fill it with oil and just check that none of the seals in this area seep. The oil filter was a right bugger to get off.
About four hours, and numerous different shaped wire wheels, wire drill bits, emery paper and various shaped hand wire brushes later the block is pretty much free of loose oxidisation and paint. Had a headache after that, and choked on dust, but at least I have a solid base to repaint.
A good degrease and blow dry later ...
Note I'm leaving all the alloy covers on (e.g. rocker, clutch etc) for now, to stop dirt going into the engine. These will come off and go off to the polishers once the engine's been painted.
Then I used a paintbrush and thinners to 'wash' and wipe down the block (still got more of that to come, stopped as it wasn't helping the headache)
I'm going to have to paint the engine in sections. Masking up of items that can't be removed takes a while. A quick test spray of two different kinds of VHT paint ... I think I'm preferring the one on the left (Halfraud's "aluminium") as it has the nearest slightly grey colour I can find to the original paint. The one on the right's a bit too silvery for my taste, I think. Note some bolts I'm not bothering to mask up ... I'll individually remove and replace those when I have replacements.
I should point out that the plate is on the bottom of the swingarm (it's upside down in the picture), so it won't show once back on the bike. But yeah, not good. Only showed through a couple of small pinholes, so it makes you wonder how many swingarms are out there on the road almost as bad, but you can't see it. The swingarm condition is at odds with the rest of the condition of the bike, certainly.
The seals ... are they something that can be replaced from the outside ?
The seals ... are they something that can be replaced from the outside ?
Engine is painted, about 3-4 coats in total. Pleased with the final result, but nothing interesting to tell about how I got to this point ... just many many hours rubbing down, cleaning, masking and painting.
My old (20-25yo) welder has finally expired ... it did get some right hammer when I was in my 20's, so it doesn't owe me anything ...
So I bought a cheap little home welder, plenty good enough for the thin work I'll be doing. Not had chance yet to give it some action. Inside of the swing arm is all painted with etch primer now. New swing arms are about £500, so I won't be bothering with a new one ! Just need to spend many hours filling and rubbing the old one, I guess ...
My old (20-25yo) welder has finally expired ... it did get some right hammer when I was in my 20's, so it doesn't owe me anything ...
So I bought a cheap little home welder, plenty good enough for the thin work I'll be doing. Not had chance yet to give it some action. Inside of the swing arm is all painted with etch primer now. New swing arms are about £500, so I won't be bothering with a new one ! Just need to spend many hours filling and rubbing the old one, I guess ...
Also been doing some videos to go alongside this thread ...
Episode 1 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGMxn66_gos
Episode 2 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeJpExYHQrw
Episode 3 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeMAgvm9JvA
Episode 4 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su0M31KCAm4
Episode 5 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM76eSnSxM4
Episode 1 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGMxn66_gos
Episode 2 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeJpExYHQrw
Episode 3 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeMAgvm9JvA
Episode 4 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su0M31KCAm4
Episode 5 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM76eSnSxM4
Here's a tip for you, pop pickers.
Due to being a 'tard like me, if you round a bolt head like I did (though inattention, listening to the radio) and the correct spanner and socket size (8mm) is just spinning on the nut, get the next size down in imperial (7/16") and hammer that on hard. Often the imperial (or vice versa of course) socket will be half way between the metric sizes (7.9mm in this case) and just enough if you whack it on with a hammer just to crack the nut. Of course it helps if the bolt heads are soft as poo, like these are.
The clutch cover REALLY didn't want to come off, much use of the rubber hammer was employed, but it's off now ...
Inside the clutch area.
Not sure what this chain is, I need to figure it out (any clues, anyone ?) but it's as flappy as anything. Need to figure out if it's supposed to be like that, or if there's any adjustment. There's no obvious tensioner. Investigations follow ...
Due to being a 'tard like me, if you round a bolt head like I did (though inattention, listening to the radio) and the correct spanner and socket size (8mm) is just spinning on the nut, get the next size down in imperial (7/16") and hammer that on hard. Often the imperial (or vice versa of course) socket will be half way between the metric sizes (7.9mm in this case) and just enough if you whack it on with a hammer just to crack the nut. Of course it helps if the bolt heads are soft as poo, like these are.
The clutch cover REALLY didn't want to come off, much use of the rubber hammer was employed, but it's off now ...
Inside the clutch area.
Not sure what this chain is, I need to figure it out (any clues, anyone ?) but it's as flappy as anything. Need to figure out if it's supposed to be like that, or if there's any adjustment. There's no obvious tensioner. Investigations follow ...
Found the relevant bit in the workshop manual, but unless it's mentioned in the Japanese text there's nothing about allowable slack on the oil pump chain ...
Welded up the bottom of the subframe today. It's about 15 years since I last did any welding, so I'm not too disappointed in the results ... not too pigeon-s**tty !
Dressed up a bit. Remember this is underneath so won't be seen.
Also angle-ground and lanished back some of the rust areas (pitting) so when it goes back for blasting and powder coating again, the finish will be better.
Not a bad 'workshop' :-)
More bits arrived from David Silver, mainly service items and gaskets/seals. Doesn't look much for a hundred quid, does it ?
Welded up the bottom of the subframe today. It's about 15 years since I last did any welding, so I'm not too disappointed in the results ... not too pigeon-s**tty !
Dressed up a bit. Remember this is underneath so won't be seen.
Also angle-ground and lanished back some of the rust areas (pitting) so when it goes back for blasting and powder coating again, the finish will be better.
Not a bad 'workshop' :-)
More bits arrived from David Silver, mainly service items and gaskets/seals. Doesn't look much for a hundred quid, does it ?
Replacing sprocket shaft and gear change seals, easy enough job ... you were right Mr2Mike / Benni
So, after the £1300 quote for all the chrome, I shopped round a bit, ordered the few items from Japan that are still available (which works out cheaper than rechroming) and went with splitting the items between two different rechromers (amazing the difference in quotes ... part X would be £35 with one chromer and £55 with another, but with part Y it would be the second chromer who was cheaper). It's still going to cost me the best part of £1k though, for all the chrome.
With that in mind, I've decided to have a go at polishing up all the alloy components ... I was going to send them to a polisher, but I think the cost would be an issue now. I think I'm going to be well over my £3k original budget. Maybe I need to revise that to £4k ...
Bought a polishing kit for a bench grinder off ebay, and I've been playing on a small component (headlight bracket)
I'm reasonably happy with the result ... I'll do further posting / a video on the process, once I've refined it myself.
(edited as I can't tell my headlight bracket from my rear footrest bracket ...)
So, after the £1300 quote for all the chrome, I shopped round a bit, ordered the few items from Japan that are still available (which works out cheaper than rechroming) and went with splitting the items between two different rechromers (amazing the difference in quotes ... part X would be £35 with one chromer and £55 with another, but with part Y it would be the second chromer who was cheaper). It's still going to cost me the best part of £1k though, for all the chrome.
With that in mind, I've decided to have a go at polishing up all the alloy components ... I was going to send them to a polisher, but I think the cost would be an issue now. I think I'm going to be well over my £3k original budget. Maybe I need to revise that to £4k ...
Bought a polishing kit for a bench grinder off ebay, and I've been playing on a small component (headlight bracket)
I'm reasonably happy with the result ... I'll do further posting / a video on the process, once I've refined it myself.
(edited as I can't tell my headlight bracket from my rear footrest bracket ...)
Edited by evil len on Monday 16th February 12:30
Oh and I dropped the swing arm off again today to be re blasted and re powder coated.
At the moment I've got :
- forks with hard-rechromers
- some chrome items with one rechromer
- some chrome items with second rechromer
- order of parts on its way from David Silver
- order of parts on its way from ISICAR in Japan
- swingarm back at powder coaters
... this is going to be an expensive month !!
Outsourcing work still to come :
- carb ultrasound and blasting (once I have carb kit)
- wheels rebuilt
- paintwork
At the moment I've got :
- forks with hard-rechromers
- some chrome items with one rechromer
- some chrome items with second rechromer
- order of parts on its way from David Silver
- order of parts on its way from ISICAR in Japan
- swingarm back at powder coaters
... this is going to be an expensive month !!
Outsourcing work still to come :
- carb ultrasound and blasting (once I have carb kit)
- wheels rebuilt
- paintwork
Not much progress this week due top being ill, plus redecorating a bedroom
Another bit polished up
Another £200 worth of bits from David Silver
Output shaft seal replaced
Water pipe fitted because, well, ... easy
Removing lacquer from alloy parts before polishing. Mrs EL was less than pleased that I stole her kitchen sink bowl
Swing arm back from the powder coaters ... second attempt much better
Even the cat approves !
Another bit polished up
Another £200 worth of bits from David Silver
Output shaft seal replaced
Water pipe fitted because, well, ... easy
Removing lacquer from alloy parts before polishing. Mrs EL was less than pleased that I stole her kitchen sink bowl
Swing arm back from the powder coaters ... second attempt much better
Even the cat approves !
Cheers for the info londonbabe
More bits from Japan ... new handlebars, chain guard, more seals, new bolts, chrome water pipes and two, very very expensive (for what you get) carb seal kits. HMRC buggered up though and read 16050 yen as 76050 yen and charged me sod loads of duty and vat, more than the order's worth ! I've got to write off to them with loads of evidence to claim it back. What a ballache ...
Was prevaricating about whether to replace the swing arm bearings or not as they seemed to be in very good condition. Noticed a bit of play on the needle bearing (needle bearing on the drive side, ball bearing on the other side) so bought new bearings and seals. Then found out the new needle bearing had the same amount of play. Bugger. That's £60 wasted then. I guess it's peace of mind (anyone want any really good condition s/h swingarm bearings for a VRX400 going cheap ?!?!
)
Ah, so we're here again then. I need a bigger vice. I also need soft jaws. How my vice didn't pop whilst pressing these in I'm not sure ...
Ball bearing pressed in ...
... then the needle, and dust seals fitted to both.
SO EXCITED !!!
The forks came back from www.pittedforks.co.uk (A.M. Philpot (Hard Chrome) Ltd.) ... couldn't be happier ! Awesome job, sexy ... they re-hard-chromed the stanchions (if you recall they were pitted and had ripped the seals) and polished the sliders, and replaced a bearing I didn't have the tool to do myself, all for £260. And they've come back earlier than they said. Feast your eyes on these ...
HUGE amount of padding and wrapping ... cardboard box -> paper shreddings -> layer of bubble wrap -> layer of bubble wrap -> wrapped in paper -> fork
Well happy.
More bits from Japan ... new handlebars, chain guard, more seals, new bolts, chrome water pipes and two, very very expensive (for what you get) carb seal kits. HMRC buggered up though and read 16050 yen as 76050 yen and charged me sod loads of duty and vat, more than the order's worth ! I've got to write off to them with loads of evidence to claim it back. What a ballache ...
Was prevaricating about whether to replace the swing arm bearings or not as they seemed to be in very good condition. Noticed a bit of play on the needle bearing (needle bearing on the drive side, ball bearing on the other side) so bought new bearings and seals. Then found out the new needle bearing had the same amount of play. Bugger. That's £60 wasted then. I guess it's peace of mind (anyone want any really good condition s/h swingarm bearings for a VRX400 going cheap ?!?!
)
Ah, so we're here again then. I need a bigger vice. I also need soft jaws. How my vice didn't pop whilst pressing these in I'm not sure ...
Ball bearing pressed in ...
... then the needle, and dust seals fitted to both.
SO EXCITED !!!
The forks came back from www.pittedforks.co.uk (A.M. Philpot (Hard Chrome) Ltd.) ... couldn't be happier ! Awesome job, sexy ... they re-hard-chromed the stanchions (if you recall they were pitted and had ripped the seals) and polished the sliders, and replaced a bearing I didn't have the tool to do myself, all for £260. And they've come back earlier than they said. Feast your eyes on these ...
HUGE amount of padding and wrapping ... cardboard box -> paper shreddings -> layer of bubble wrap -> layer of bubble wrap -> wrapped in paper -> fork
Well happy.
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