Honda VRX400 1995 "barn find" restoration
Discussion
Hi Evil,
I watched your Youtube vid where it would only idle but not rev.
I couldn't be bothered to read through all 5 pages so you might have fixed this already.....
Put the airbox back together and try again.
Seriously, it'll probably be that easy.
On a DRZ and on an ER5 I've been tricked by this - you think you're saving time by not having to bolt one last part back on to test but they just won't rev without it on.
Yours sounded like the same issue.
It really is worth checking this before you do anything major
Cheers, Andy.
I watched your Youtube vid where it would only idle but not rev.
I couldn't be bothered to read through all 5 pages so you might have fixed this already.....
Put the airbox back together and try again.
Seriously, it'll probably be that easy.
On a DRZ and on an ER5 I've been tricked by this - you think you're saving time by not having to bolt one last part back on to test but they just won't rev without it on.
Yours sounded like the same issue.
It really is worth checking this before you do anything major
Cheers, Andy.
AndyDRZ said:
Hi Evil,
I watched your Youtube vid where it would only idle but not rev.
I couldn't be bothered to read through all 5 pages so you might have fixed this already.....
Put the airbox back together and try again.
Seriously, it'll probably be that easy.
On a DRZ and on an ER5 I've been tricked by this - you think you're saving time by not having to bolt one last part back on to test but they just won't rev without it on.
Yours sounded like the same issue.
It really is worth checking this before you do anything major
Cheers, Andy.
I think we're a bit past "pop the airbox back on"!I watched your Youtube vid where it would only idle but not rev.
I couldn't be bothered to read through all 5 pages so you might have fixed this already.....
Put the airbox back together and try again.
Seriously, it'll probably be that easy.
On a DRZ and on an ER5 I've been tricked by this - you think you're saving time by not having to bolt one last part back on to test but they just won't rev without it on.
Yours sounded like the same issue.
It really is worth checking this before you do anything major
Cheers, Andy.
Though on your ER5 point, did I understand right that 20% of the development of the GPZ500S (and presumably ER5) was on tuning the airbox/airflow?
So ... this whole restoration was, as I've said before, a learning exercise. Here's where I own up to my first mistake ..
Decided to do a (cold) compression test. 140 psi on the rear, 180 on the front ... oh dear, that's a bit out, even by the manual's quite generous 30 psi difference allowance (normally anything over 10% is bad)
Rang a local classic bike place (www.northleicestermotorcycles.com) and had a long, very useful chat with a very friendly chap there (bearing in mind, I'm not an existing customer ... he was full of advice and time). He recons that as the bike's not been used for 5 years, whatever valve was in the down position has got some surface corrosion on the mating surface.
His first thing was that he'd have taken it for a long, hard blast. I explained that wasn't possible (smashed wheel, no brakes etc). But he actually talked me out of bringing the engine in (I was prepared to take the engine to be looked at) ... he said that either the valve just needs relapping, or more likely, a good old blast will just clear it out. So at the moment I think I'm erring towards saving myself a couple of hundred pounds, taking a gamble, and just putting the engine back in the bike and hoping that it will be okay once run for a bit (though it's a bit of a pain to get out !). That's what he advised anyway.
My mistake, however, was the following ... when I explained the fact I got it running albeit lumpy, he said that I should have persevered and got it running better before stripping the bike. He said one of his favourite sayings ... "95% of carb problems are electrical". Or in other words, he thinks it's probably unlikely that the rough running was down to the carbs and dirt etc, probably more like an electrical issue of some kind.
Oh well, you live, you learn. For anyone else, next time try harder to get it running well before stripping ...
So I've been consoling myself with the mucky job of trying to clean up the engine. I've also been ordering and testing a variety of VHT paints, to try and find a silver that's close to the original block colour. The sprocket is knackered and needs replacing.
Also ... FRAME'S BACK !
Very very pleased with the frame itself, superb job, can't fault it (for £80) and I'm a picky bugger. There's not even any powder coating on any threads or holes, they seem to have contentiously blocked any hole that might get clogged up with powder.
However, I'm not so happy with the swing arm ... nothing the powder coaters have done wrong, but after blasting the rust damage (which I knew was there) was much worse than I thought ... there's patches with heavy rust damage (which needs filling really) and on the underside the metal's so thin it's peppered through. Should be an easily welded on plate, but just more work than I was expecting. So I think I'm going to cut out and replace the under side (plate), strip the swing arm again back to bare metal, then fill the rusty areas, prime and paint gloss black. The frame will be powder coated, the swing arm painted.
Decided to do a (cold) compression test. 140 psi on the rear, 180 on the front ... oh dear, that's a bit out, even by the manual's quite generous 30 psi difference allowance (normally anything over 10% is bad)
Rang a local classic bike place (www.northleicestermotorcycles.com) and had a long, very useful chat with a very friendly chap there (bearing in mind, I'm not an existing customer ... he was full of advice and time). He recons that as the bike's not been used for 5 years, whatever valve was in the down position has got some surface corrosion on the mating surface.
His first thing was that he'd have taken it for a long, hard blast. I explained that wasn't possible (smashed wheel, no brakes etc). But he actually talked me out of bringing the engine in (I was prepared to take the engine to be looked at) ... he said that either the valve just needs relapping, or more likely, a good old blast will just clear it out. So at the moment I think I'm erring towards saving myself a couple of hundred pounds, taking a gamble, and just putting the engine back in the bike and hoping that it will be okay once run for a bit (though it's a bit of a pain to get out !). That's what he advised anyway.
My mistake, however, was the following ... when I explained the fact I got it running albeit lumpy, he said that I should have persevered and got it running better before stripping the bike. He said one of his favourite sayings ... "95% of carb problems are electrical". Or in other words, he thinks it's probably unlikely that the rough running was down to the carbs and dirt etc, probably more like an electrical issue of some kind.
Oh well, you live, you learn. For anyone else, next time try harder to get it running well before stripping ...
So I've been consoling myself with the mucky job of trying to clean up the engine. I've also been ordering and testing a variety of VHT paints, to try and find a silver that's close to the original block colour. The sprocket is knackered and needs replacing.
Also ... FRAME'S BACK !
Very very pleased with the frame itself, superb job, can't fault it (for £80) and I'm a picky bugger. There's not even any powder coating on any threads or holes, they seem to have contentiously blocked any hole that might get clogged up with powder.
However, I'm not so happy with the swing arm ... nothing the powder coaters have done wrong, but after blasting the rust damage (which I knew was there) was much worse than I thought ... there's patches with heavy rust damage (which needs filling really) and on the underside the metal's so thin it's peppered through. Should be an easily welded on plate, but just more work than I was expecting. So I think I'm going to cut out and replace the under side (plate), strip the swing arm again back to bare metal, then fill the rusty areas, prime and paint gloss black. The frame will be powder coated, the swing arm painted.
So had little progress over the last week or two due to the festive season, but had a solid day on the bike today.
Started by cutting out the rusted-thin area on the swing arm. Glad I did, as this lot fell out ...
Inside it looks reasonably okay, though a bit thinner in places than the factory intended. It's currently drying under a coat of Kurust, and tomorrow I'll etch prime as much of the inside as I can. Once the bike's back together I'll waxoyl inside too.
Following best Project Binky principles, I made a new plate to cover the hole using CAD (Cardboard Aided Design). This plate is cut out now, and also drying from a coat of etch primer on the inside. Welding it on is going to have to wait however ... after 15 years of inactivity my MIG welder is terminal, so I'm going to have to purchase a new one.
Attention turned to the engine. I've been cleaning years of black kack off the sprocket area on and off recently. This has left a clean, but oxidised block.
This area was proper kacky. I've decided that once the engine is back together, before I put it back in the frame I'm going to fill it with oil and just check that none of the seals in this area seep. The oil filter was a right bugger to get off.
About four hours, and numerous different shaped wire wheels, wire drill bits, emery paper and various shaped hand wire brushes later the block is pretty much free of loose oxidisation and paint. Had a headache after that, and choked on dust, but at least I have a solid base to repaint.
A good degrease and blow dry later ...
Note I'm leaving all the alloy covers on (e.g. rocker, clutch etc) for now, to stop dirt going into the engine. These will come off and go off to the polishers once the engine's been painted.
Then I used a paintbrush and thinners to 'wash' and wipe down the block (still got more of that to come, stopped as it wasn't helping the headache)
I'm going to have to paint the engine in sections. Masking up of items that can't be removed takes a while. A quick test spray of two different kinds of VHT paint ... I think I'm preferring the one on the left (Halfraud's "aluminium") as it has the nearest slightly grey colour I can find to the original paint. The one on the right's a bit too silvery for my taste, I think. Note some bolts I'm not bothering to mask up ... I'll individually remove and replace those when I have replacements.
Started by cutting out the rusted-thin area on the swing arm. Glad I did, as this lot fell out ...
Inside it looks reasonably okay, though a bit thinner in places than the factory intended. It's currently drying under a coat of Kurust, and tomorrow I'll etch prime as much of the inside as I can. Once the bike's back together I'll waxoyl inside too.
Following best Project Binky principles, I made a new plate to cover the hole using CAD (Cardboard Aided Design). This plate is cut out now, and also drying from a coat of etch primer on the inside. Welding it on is going to have to wait however ... after 15 years of inactivity my MIG welder is terminal, so I'm going to have to purchase a new one.
Attention turned to the engine. I've been cleaning years of black kack off the sprocket area on and off recently. This has left a clean, but oxidised block.
This area was proper kacky. I've decided that once the engine is back together, before I put it back in the frame I'm going to fill it with oil and just check that none of the seals in this area seep. The oil filter was a right bugger to get off.
About four hours, and numerous different shaped wire wheels, wire drill bits, emery paper and various shaped hand wire brushes later the block is pretty much free of loose oxidisation and paint. Had a headache after that, and choked on dust, but at least I have a solid base to repaint.
A good degrease and blow dry later ...
Note I'm leaving all the alloy covers on (e.g. rocker, clutch etc) for now, to stop dirt going into the engine. These will come off and go off to the polishers once the engine's been painted.
Then I used a paintbrush and thinners to 'wash' and wipe down the block (still got more of that to come, stopped as it wasn't helping the headache)
I'm going to have to paint the engine in sections. Masking up of items that can't be removed takes a while. A quick test spray of two different kinds of VHT paint ... I think I'm preferring the one on the left (Halfraud's "aluminium") as it has the nearest slightly grey colour I can find to the original paint. The one on the right's a bit too silvery for my taste, I think. Note some bolts I'm not bothering to mask up ... I'll individually remove and replace those when I have replacements.
Good progress! The swingarm is a bit of a shocker, not seen one that bad before.
For the sake of a few quid it would be worth replacing the oil seals on the output shaft and gear change shaft.
For the fasteners, if you clean them up with a wire wheel etc. and use a plating kit to put back the passivated zinc plating they will look like new. With the price of OEM fasteners, the kit would pay for itself pretty quickly.
For the sake of a few quid it would be worth replacing the oil seals on the output shaft and gear change shaft.
For the fasteners, if you clean them up with a wire wheel etc. and use a plating kit to put back the passivated zinc plating they will look like new. With the price of OEM fasteners, the kit would pay for itself pretty quickly.
Edited by Mr2Mike on Sunday 4th January 09:37
I should point out that the plate is on the bottom of the swingarm (it's upside down in the picture), so it won't show once back on the bike. But yeah, not good. Only showed through a couple of small pinholes, so it makes you wonder how many swingarms are out there on the road almost as bad, but you can't see it. The swingarm condition is at odds with the rest of the condition of the bike, certainly.
The seals ... are they something that can be replaced from the outside ?
The seals ... are they something that can be replaced from the outside ?
evil len said:
p.s. interesting it's got a Yamaha oil filter ?!?
Honda NC700 and Kawasaki gpz 500 have the same oil filter. I bought a Honda one while I was getting some other bits, then once home noticed it had the same part number as the an aftermarket one I had left over from my old kwaka.The seals should be removable from the outside, best wait until someone more in the know adds comment
or try to find an exploded view, if they are standard seals with mm measurements it should be OK,
only very rarely manufacturers have special seals made with an extra lip or shape that requires removal from inside
or having to split the cases, standard seals can be bought from your local tech parts supplier, much cheaper than Honda OEM.
If standard, just whack and turn a short spax screw or two (180° apart)
in the area between outer and inner edge and pull with pliers until the seal comes out,
when fitting new seals cover up the shafts with insulation tape and grease
before sliding the seals on the shaft to prevent lip damage.
or try to find an exploded view, if they are standard seals with mm measurements it should be OK,
only very rarely manufacturers have special seals made with an extra lip or shape that requires removal from inside
or having to split the cases, standard seals can be bought from your local tech parts supplier, much cheaper than Honda OEM.
If standard, just whack and turn a short spax screw or two (180° apart)
in the area between outer and inner edge and pull with pliers until the seal comes out,
when fitting new seals cover up the shafts with insulation tape and grease
before sliding the seals on the shaft to prevent lip damage.
Engine is painted, about 3-4 coats in total. Pleased with the final result, but nothing interesting to tell about how I got to this point ... just many many hours rubbing down, cleaning, masking and painting.
My old (20-25yo) welder has finally expired ... it did get some right hammer when I was in my 20's, so it doesn't owe me anything ...
So I bought a cheap little home welder, plenty good enough for the thin work I'll be doing. Not had chance yet to give it some action. Inside of the swing arm is all painted with etch primer now. New swing arms are about £500, so I won't be bothering with a new one ! Just need to spend many hours filling and rubbing the old one, I guess ...
My old (20-25yo) welder has finally expired ... it did get some right hammer when I was in my 20's, so it doesn't owe me anything ...
So I bought a cheap little home welder, plenty good enough for the thin work I'll be doing. Not had chance yet to give it some action. Inside of the swing arm is all painted with etch primer now. New swing arms are about £500, so I won't be bothering with a new one ! Just need to spend many hours filling and rubbing the old one, I guess ...
Also been doing some videos to go alongside this thread ...
Episode 1 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGMxn66_gos
Episode 2 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeJpExYHQrw
Episode 3 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeMAgvm9JvA
Episode 4 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su0M31KCAm4
Episode 5 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM76eSnSxM4
Episode 1 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGMxn66_gos
Episode 2 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeJpExYHQrw
Episode 3 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeMAgvm9JvA
Episode 4 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su0M31KCAm4
Episode 5 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM76eSnSxM4
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff