RE: Honda RC213V-S - will it be built?

[spareparts]

It's price, rarity, and fact that it appears to be nothing more than a pet project for HRC - arguably the most respected motorbike engineering team out there - takes absolutely nothing away from it being the most exciting road legal superbike out there.

All these things make it even more attractive IMHO with more WANT factor than anything else!

Come on - these are unicorns that often get dreamt about, but manufacturer's rarely rarely execute on. How can true petrolheads be interested in yet another Fireblade UJM? This is the polar opposite, a halo'd unicorn, the Godzilla of superbikes!!!

[09dfearon]

Bit of a weird one this. They will be bought by millionaires for average pace Sunday rides out usually to meets I guess but in a way this sort of misses the point of what the bike is all about. Best use of the handling and performance of a bike like this would be for the track but then most people wouldn't track a 200k bike. Most bikers I know (some with money most can only dream of) will just buy a track bike for less that an eighth of what this costs as they want to focus on riding and having fun and not worrying if they drop it! Could buy 4 ninja h2rs and track them with your mates! That's proper fun!

[spareparts]

How it gets used is somewhat irrelevant - that is a personal decision for the lucky owners - although it would be fantastic to see them getting used as intended.

Only the green-eyed could critique this bike for what it is. It is road legal. It can get ridden on the B452 if you wanted to, ridden to one of those Bike magazine 'Own the track' trackdays, it can get ridden to your local McDonalds or Tescos if you wanted to. It could be blitzed down the Kemmel straight at Spa if you wanted. It is dreamy

[jeffw]

This is the first time since I ordered and bought my RC30 in 1988 have I gone 'wow' at a picture of a new bike. Lots and lots of want, can never afford it but still....

[BigHeartedTone]

Lincsblokey said:

The Aprilia was always a GP bike heavily disguised for the road (not that you would guess it given that the road bike is wk)

I'm curious as to why you say this? Too little power you think?

Lots of folks like them...

[bass gt3]

BigHeartedTone said:

I'm curious as to why you say this? Too little power you think?

Lots of folks like them...

Pay no heed, LB is a Honda/Kawa fan boi, who has the hate for anything else
Ever since Liverpool went to shyte again, his inherent bitterness has risen
The Ape is a very good bike. it's had some issues in it's early days but overall it's a top piece of kit. Just because it doesn't make 200 (2015 will) and weighs a little more tells only half the story.
It's not for nothing that it wins the majority of the shootouts it's featured in, despite it's lower power and additional weight. Ride one and see, it's like an overpowered 250

[Terminator X]

bogie said:

What about cyclists and horse riders ? their death rate per mile travelled is higher and getting worse each year whilst motorcycling has improved ...why not try to educate them too? can we slow down the horses maybe or limit people to riding smaller ones until they have passed a more stricter test ? More horsey types are wearing airbags than bikers these days, but its still not helping the stats

and that cycling thing...well there's no law to cover that at all which I find outrageous, you dont even have to wear a helmet to go out and travel at 30-40mph if you wish. We should get the Euro parliament to regulate cycling before more people kill themselves each year

Here's the top 10 causes of death in the UK. Motorcycling does not even move the needle. Death is one of the most certain things that will happen to us all, so you may as well live life to the full and do whatever makes you happy

1 Heart disease 37423 15.60%
2 Lung cancer 16698 7.00%
3 Emphysema/ 14378 6.00%
4 Stroke 14116 5.90%
5 Dementia and Alzheimer’5.80%
6 Flu/pneumonia 11063 4.60%
7 Prostate cancer 9698 4.00%
8 Bowel cancer 7841 3.30%
9 Lymphoid cancer 6301 2.60%
10 Throat cancer 4603 1.90%

Must be wrong, Ebola is not featured?

TX.

[thatdude]

bogie said:

What about cyclists and horse riders ? their death rate per mile travelled is higher and getting worse each year whilst motorcycling has improved ...why not try to educate them too? can we slow down the horses maybe or limit people to riding smaller ones until they have passed a more stricter test ? More horsey types are wearing airbags than bikers these days, but its still not helping the stats

and that cycling thing...well there's no law to cover that at all which I find outrageous, you dont even have to wear a helmet to go out and travel at 30-40mph if you wish. We should get the Euro parliament to regulate cycling before more people kill themselves each year

Here's the top 10 causes of death in the UK. Motorcycling does not even move the needle. Death is one of the most certain things that will happen to us all, so you may as well live life to the full and do whatever makes you happy

1 Heart disease 37423 15.60%
2 Lung cancer 16698 7.00%
3 Emphysema/ 14378 6.00%
4 Stroke 14116 5.90%
5 Dementia and Alzheimer’5.80%
6 Flu/pneumonia 11063 4.60%
7 Prostate cancer 9698 4.00%
8 Bowel cancer 7841 3.30%
9 Lymphoid cancer 6301 2.60%
10 Throat cancer 4603 1.90%

What is interesting there is that some of these diseases do not receive the publicity that e.g. breast cancer does.

Out of all of those, there is heart disease, stroke, influenza and more recently dementia that receive a lot of attention in terms of charity advertising and public information services, but the others not really anything.

[Mastodon2]

redroadster said:

Having seen 2 bikers get splattered through crazy cray speeds which bikes can achieve in such a short space I have formed the opinion that for the road there's no need for bikes to get any faster, for race tracks that's a different story,so yes if you think my comment is odd that's fair enough maybe you have not seen the uk death rate for bikes and wonder why it is ?

I,ve seen more people been pushed around in bikers gear in wheelchairs ansd can only guess why . . .

What a strange thing to say. Did some mean bikers laugh at your Mini-engined Smart or something?

[Lincsblokey]

bass gt3 said:

BigHeartedTone said:

I'm curious as to why you say this? Too little power you think?

Lots of folks like them...

Pay no heed, LB is a Honda/Kawa fan boi, who has the hate for anything else
Ever since Liverpool went to shyte again, his inherent bitterness has risen
The Ape is a very good bike. it's had some issues in it's early days but overall it's a top piece of kit. Just because it doesn't make 200 (2015 will) and weighs a little more tells only half the story.
It's not for nothing that it wins the majority of the shootouts it's featured in, despite it's lower power and additional weight. Ride one and see, it's like an overpowered 250

Its heavy.

Its STILL unreliable

It is underpowered. hellishly.

Not just my opinion, but the guys who ride them regularly, and one of my oldest mates who races one at the TT and short circuits too.

And the 2015 wont make 200. itll be 180 tops, 200 at the crank just doesnt cut it when BMW & Kawasaki are making that at the wheels.

It has one thing going for it though. Alongside the ZX10R & Fireblade, its the only 1000cc sportsbike worth saying looks 'nice'

[thatdude]

redroadster said:

Having seen 2 bikers get splattered through crazy cray speeds which bikes can achieve in such a short space I have formed the opinion that for the road there's no need for bikes to get any faster, for race tracks that's a different story,so yes if you think my comment is odd that's fair enough maybe you have not seen the uk death rate for bikes and wonder why it is ?

I,ve seen more people been pushed around in bikers gear in wheelchairs ansd can only guess why . . .

The powerful motorcycle is not the problem here

It's a lack of respect for the power, and the insufficient skill of the rider.

Bikes don't kill the rider, the rider kills the rider.

[bass gt3]

Lincsblokey said:

Its heavy.

Compared to the competition, yes, it's a couple of KGs up. But the packaging negates it as it's so compact.

Lincsblokey said:

Its STILL unreliable.

After 2011, not so much. Before?? yeah, I'd have no arguments. However, a LOT has changed in the motor to aid oil and cooling and QC is better. Just looking on the American forum there's no issues coming out on post 2011 bikes. And even the earlier models are being recalled for things like better starter motor etc so the care is ongoing

Lincsblokey said:

It is underpowered. hellishly.

Nah. Mine seeing 170 on a DJ dyno. Comparable with the completion, and a friends 2014 zx10 or 1199 doesn't walkaway on track or on the road. What it does need however is the fuelling looked at (PCV etc) and a decent pipe and it flies.

Lincsblokey said:

Not just my opinion, but the guys who ride them regularly, and one of my oldest mates who races one at the TT and short circuits too.

I think that's the rub. For low level racing, the Ape doesn't make the same power as the ZX and BM, yet on many circuits, lap times are comparable. The gulf between the full fat racers and the street bikes is huge with the Aprilia compared to the others. At the sharp end, it won WSB with only an 8 engine allowance so the performance is there. And on the road, it's like the Blade and the BB R1 with tons of mid and upper grunt rather than a peaky headline figure. Much easier and faster in the real world. In fact I pass more ZX10's and BM's on my 675 than probably any other, so yes, peak power sells. Don't mean most can use it

Lincsblokey said:

And the 2015 wont make 200. itll be 180 tops, 200 at the crank just doesnt cut it when BMW & Kawasaki are making that at the wheels.

I doubt it. Aprilia HAVE to get it up there otherwise they'll fall too far behind. Looking at the numbers, peak HP is up but peak Tq is down so it looks like they've set it up for more top end breathing and power and sacrificed some of the midrange. Personally, I'd be happy with 180-190 at the wheel, good mid range and top and decent electronics like the competition. Auto blipper etc. Ultimate power is only relevant to a VERY small number of peeps. Look how quick McKeann goes(went)on an old 2012 Blade.

Lincsblokey said:

It has one thing going for it though. Alongside the ZX10R & Fireblade, its the only 1000cc sportsbike worth saying looks 'nice'

Agreed, although the ZX isn't so pretty, not like ZX's of old.

Other things to remember are the Italians are nightmares for over gearing their bikes. The RSV4 will pull 330kph on standard gearing,( obviouslyit won't) but it's fecking ridiculous. So once you've changed the front and back to what they should be, they go VERY well. Mine is geared for a top end of 175mph and in any gear, any revs, it will live with anything doing a roll on and only a beemer will pull a bike length or two on it at the top top end. negligible really

Edited by bass gt3 on Friday 28th November 13:21

[Greenslade]

I'll eat my hat if this costs £200k. Where has that figure arrived from? Seeing as will conform to the Japanese arbitrary limit of 200hp I cannot see how they can get to a price tag above £25k let alone six figures, unless it weighs about 25kg less than competition through the use of exotic materials. Still, as an exercise in free advertising through all the forums it is doing rather well

[bass gt3]

Greenslade said:

I'll eat my hat if this costs £200k. Where has that figure arrived from? Seeing as will conform to the Japanese arbitrary limit of 200hp I cannot see how they can get to a price tag above £25k let alone six figures, unless it weighs about 25kg less than competition through the use of exotic materials. Still, as an exercise in free advertising through all the forums it is doing rather well

Who says it'll be limited to 200 bhp?? The H2R is over 300 and used the 'Track Only' bike classification to break the ceiling. Nothing stopping HRC putting a 'track map' in the bike that releases the full power and a 'road map' that retains the agreed 200 bhp limit.
As for the cost, lots of sources from Honda themselves are saying it's pretty much a full fat bike and you'll need a mechanic to go with it. Pistons need replacing every 300kmsfor example, so I suspect a full engine refresh at XXX hours of use.
And despite the hue and cry about the price, there are MANY individuals who would pay that price and more to own the bike. Look at cars like the P1 and such, no shortage of buyers there. The owners may not all be bikers, but they'll but anything exotic and bespoke, especially if it's closely linked to the real McCoy that MM & DP ride. They reckon on building & selling 500, I reckon they could shift 3 times that at an even higher price

[BigHeartedTone]

bass gt3 said:

a lot of positive stuff..

Edited by bass gt3 on Friday 28th November 13:21

For the road though its all about the sound of the exhaust. At any revs it wins..

And lets face it on the road or track most owners of this Honda are going to appreciate the soundtrack of their V4 more than any other part of its capability.

Edited by BigHeartedTone on Friday 28th November 13:49

[bass gt3]

BigHeartedTone said:

For the road though its all about the sound of the exhaust. At any revs it wins..

Yip.

[Jewelly_Boy]

Greenslade said:

I'll eat my hat if this costs £200k. Where has that figure arrived from? Seeing as will conform to the Japanese arbitrary limit of 200hp I cannot see how they can get to a price tag above £25k let alone six figures, unless it weighs about 25kg less than competition through the use of exotic materials. Still, as an exercise in free advertising through all the forums it is doing rather well

25k - no way.

I'd say 60k.

Panigale S is nearly 25k! and this bike is 50 times more special.

[NotReallyBored]

I just had a bit of wee come out seeing that Honda. It might end up a NR750 all over again, but who cares, it's Honda going a little nuts and i'm all up for that.

As for the road safety doomsayer. Buy a Prius....

[BigHeartedTone]

The price will be high enough that they don't have to make too many. 100? 200?
They'll lose money on each one any way.

[Walter Sobchak]

Lincsblokey said:

Its heavy.

Its STILL unreliable

It is underpowered. hellishly.

Not just my opinion, but the guys who ride them regularly, and one of my oldest mates who races one at the TT and short circuits too.

And the 2015 wont make 200. itll be 180 tops, 200 at the crank just doesnt cut it when BMW & Kawasaki are making that at the wheels.

It has one thing going for it though. Alongside the ZX10R & Fireblade, its the only 1000cc sportsbike worth saying looks 'nice'

I've put 4000 Miles on mine since getting it in June and not had any issues, my S1000RR blew an engine and had to have a new one under warranty.
Hellishly underpowered is a bit of an overstatement, its got plenty of power, yes it's down 15 or so BHP on the S1000RR and ZX10R but interestingly I'm quicker on it than I was on the BMW, and it doesn't seem to be me alone that thinks it as it seems to always be at or near the top in the shootouts despite its power deficit, where it makes it up IMO is the chassis/set up, its the best handling bike I've ever ridden, match that up to a smooth,linear engine and you've got a great package, not to mention the electronics.
It isn't a perfect bike though, it's thirsty, and the parts supply to dealerships can take a stupidly long time.
It isn't the perfect superstock bike either because the power deficit makes a difference, hopefully the 2015 model will change that.

Would I buy one again over a BMW or a ZX10R?-in a heartbeat.

Edited by Walter Sobchak on Friday 28th November 23:17

Edited by Walter Sobchak on Friday 28th November 23:18