Potentially bad news for commuters in London

[mitzy]

They have been trying to find a way to get motorbikes to pay , now they have found it with another EU crazy law.

They should be ashamed of themselves on this one.

[bass gt3]

mitzy said:

They have been trying to find a way to get motorbikes to pay , now they have found it with another EU crazy law.

They should be ashamed of themselves on this one.

But is it still the case that vehicles with 7e free?? And I seem to recall tracked vehicles are exempt?
In some ways it's a poor show, but the reality of how many 13 year old bikes will be making the commute come 2020 will be the real factor. If there's ever an excuse needed to get a new bike, this is right up there amongst the best. For less than a years equivalent charge you could get a nice modern bike and ride for free.

[WaferThinHam]

It's only a proposal. I'm sure MAG will swiftly kick it into touch.........Hahaha, they'll be too busy down the pub.

[catso]

WaferThinHam said:

It's only a proposal.

Yes, after much hype and arguing they'll probably implement a 'watered-down' charge of, say a fiver and everyone will be happy...

but the small print will read that it's applicable to all bikes, including new ones.

[Hackney]

RemyMartin said:

y2blade said:

And rightly so.
Why should it be free?

Trolling I assume?

Maybe the tax on fuel, tax to use the bike in the first place (VED) and the tax when the bike being bought isn't enough?

Not to mention bikes do not cause congestion, generally don't sit in jams at idle all day.

Few reasons to be begin with.

But as low / zero emission cars cause congestion but not emissions it's certainly not a "congestion" charge is it?

Also, car owners pay all of the taxes you listed, so are you saying they shouldn't pay congestion charge either? (FWIW I don't think they should, the whole thing is a farce)

[WaferThinHam]

Hackney said:

But as low / zero emission cars cause congestion but not emissions it's certainly not a "congestion" charge is it?

Also, car owners pay all of the taxes you listed, so are you saying they shouldn't pay congestion charge either? (FWIW I don't think they should, the whole thing is a farce)

Depends on your definition of "emissions" really.

[btdk5]

I doubt there is anyone who works in central london who cant afford a 12 year old bike so in a way seems to be a pointless policy that will only serve to catch people out then send them a £100 fine for non payment.

[Mr2Mike]

Hackney said:

But as low / zero emission cars cause congestion but not emissions it's certainly not a "congestion" charge is it?

Of course they cause emissions, just not ones local to the vehicle.

Hackney said:

Also, car owners pay all of the taxes you listed, so are you saying they shouldn't pay congestion charge either? (FWIW I don't think they should, the whole thing is a farce)

Cars cause congestion and a car that spends most of it's time crawling through traffic jams is going to have higher emissions.

[Mr2Mike]

y2blade said:

And rightly so.
Why should it be free?

I look forward to the day that cyclists get hit with this as well.

[Prof Prolapse]

I think they should instead impose a tax on cockney accents. Or better yet, those Londoners who have lived here for a decade but speak English like they've just got here on a floating door.

bds.

[HiFiHunter]

The issue is not the cost of buying a big < 13 years old when working in London. It's the fact London is a complete grinder for bikers, through combination of high theft rates, stupid drivers, filtering all the time and grim inevitability you'll hit the deck regularly, it makes perfect sense to get a solid old dependable commuter bike, that's cheap to run and patch up. The usual suspects: old carb Fazer's, SV650s, CB500's, ER5's, '90s Ninjas and so on.

Most of us London commuters live way out of town, to buy affordable property and bike to avoid insane tube/train fairs and journey times. Not biking, it no longer an option. The issue is bikes contribute <1% of NO2 emissions yet are still expected to fork out as much as everyone else.

If this tax comes in, it'll be the nail in the coffin for most motorcycle couriers. Bike crime will go up due to influx in more desirable/valuable bikes on the streets. The cost of commuting will be higher, not just from cost of buying a newer bike, but through higher cost of insuring, maintaining and fixing it.

[TheInternet]

HiFiHunter said:

The issue is bikes contribute <1% of NO2 emissions yet are still expected to fork out as much as everyone else.

Not only a tiny proportion of the emissions, but also expected to drop by just 15% with the introduction of the ULEZ and charges, the least impact of any vehicle class.

Information here
Consultation here

[sjg]

Nothing to do with congestion, everything to do with the legal allowed levels of NO2 and particulates.

The alternative is to go down the French route, ignore it until you're actually breaching it, then ban vehicles with odd or even numbers on days when the levels get too high. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/an-...

..which is arguably a lot less convenient than paying £12.50 or getting over a fear of fuel injection on your commuter.

[supersingle]

The Commies in The EU and TFL hate personal mobility, they want us all on their cattle trucks were they can better control us. The nitrogen oxide limits will be ratcketed down until the only vehicles allowed are electric. You think they'll always allow electric cars and bikes? They hate them too and they'll find a way to ban them leaving the roads clear for buses and the occational Zil.

[anonymous-user]

supersingle said:

The Commies in The EU and TFL hate personal mobility, they want us all on their cattle trucks were they can better control us. The nitrogen oxide limits will be ratcketed down until the only vehicles allowed are electric. You think they'll always allow electric cars and bikes? They hate them too and they'll find a way to ban them leaving the roads clear for buses and the occational Zil.

Nail hit squarely on head.

[Baryonyx]

thatdude said:

but it's carbed, it lobs away fuel on the overrun, the hydrocarbon emissions are a joke compared to modern fuel injekshun.

I had heard about this, carbed engines being bad on the old emissions because on a closing throttle the fuelling goes very rich in the absence of air and the unburnt fuel goes off through the exhaust in a partially combusted mix, leading to 'bad gases'. I love trailing throttle on my bike, I'm doing my bit for global warming by keeping the planet warm - as it's fking freezing up here!

Why is it that air cooled engines are worse again on the emissions (the two stroke, air cooled, carb fed bike seemingly being the dinosaur manufacturers have been forced to abandon as the years went on)?

[Tribal Chestnut]

Crossflow Kid said:

Nail hit squarely on head.

Apart from the word 'commies'. It's just the powers that be, whether they purport to push a left or right wing agenda. They simply want our money in their pockets or those of their associates. They neither believe in communism, nor the free market.

[Prof Prolapse]

Tribal Chestnut said:

Apart from the word 'commies'. It's just the powers that be, whether they purport to push a left or right wing agenda. They simply want our money in their pockets or those of their associates. They neither believe in communism, nor the free market.

What are you on about?

At worst they tax you and spend it in areas of society you don't feel need supported.

We don't live in a banana republic just yet.

[Tribal Chestnut]

Prof Prolapse said:

What are you on about?

At worst they tax you and spend it in areas of society you don't feel need supported.

We don't live in a banana republic just yet.

You know what I'm on about, but I suspect we have very different ideas about what state expenditure should constitute.

[Guybrush]

Crossflow Kid said:

supersingle said:

The Commies in The EU and TFL hate personal mobility, they want us all on their cattle trucks were they can better control us. The nitrogen oxide limits will be ratcketed down until the only vehicles allowed are electric. You think they'll always allow electric cars and bikes? They hate them too and they'll find a way to ban them leaving the roads clear for buses and the occational Zil.

Nail hit squarely on head.

Agreed. Communism has failed and their only alternative was to cloak themselves in the veneer of environmentalism.