Oulton 27th / 28th Feb

[moanthebairns]

Serious question.

Whats wrong with original.

I have 3 full sets.

Each costing 5 quid a lever, used admittedly as spares.

The asv ones I got on my triple from mckeann I love to bits. But for a track bike. Whats the point. It's just looks isn't it.

[George29]

moanthebairns said:

Serious question.

Whats wrong with original.

I have 3 full sets.

Each costing 5 quid a lever, used admittedly as spares.

The asv ones I got on my triple from mckeann I love to bits. But for a track bike. Whats the point. It's just looks isn't it.

The ASV ones bend up when you drop it, stopping you needing a new lever every time.

Also ASV have a lifetime guarantee, so in theory you will only ever need to buy one pair.

[Prof Prolapse]

I have the Chinese levers of over two years.

What fails on them?

[Hooli]

Fleegle said:

bass gt3 said:

And yet people still buy them......

I'm a great believer in you get what you pay for. If you are happy with dirt cheap brake levers, then expect to be eating the dirt

Thing is with cheap ones, if they don't fit you can buy another & still be quids up. Not sure I'd trust them on track as you're always braking hard, I bet they get an easier life on a road bike.

Having said that, the cheap levers on my 14 currently have a small bit of metal glued on so they activate the clutch properly due to poor manufacturing. It's worked for 30k, so doesn't concern me anymore. Mind you, I must mod the spare under the seat one day in case I ever need it.

[Yazza54]

Hooli said:

Thing is with cheap ones, if they don't fit you can buy another & still be quids up. Not sure I'd trust them on track as you're always braking hard, I bet they get an easier life on a road bike.

Jazoli's brakes locked on after 3 slow sighting laps.

[LoonR1]

Prof Prolapse said:

I have the Chinese levers of over two years.

What fails on them?

Lots, but if you read back through this thread BN explains how something gets hot and expands activating the brake. The hotter it gets, the more it expands and the more it pushes the brake on until eventually they're on completely and bang

[Hooli]

Yazza54 said:

Hooli said:

Thing is with cheap ones, if they don't fit you can buy another & still be quids up. Not sure I'd trust them on track as you're always braking hard, I bet they get an easier life on a road bike.

Jazoli's brakes locked on after 3 slow sighting laps.

So they are out of tolerance the other way to mine. Not something you want & glad to hear Jazoli is basicly ok.

[bass gt3]

LoonR1 said:

Prof Prolapse said:

I have the Chinese levers of over two years.

What fails on them?

Lots, but if you read back through this thread BN explains how something gets hot and expands activating the brake. The hotter it gets, the more it expands and the more it pushes the brake on until eventually they're on completely and bang

Not sure thermal expansion would be the cause of such failures TBH. Even considering the shyte metal chinky manufacturers tend to use, it won't expand enough to do this. We're talking a few mm of movement in the system to activate the master cylinder.
However, given their superb materials and machining quality, it's quite possible they weren't fitting well and began to bind themselves on.
If I recall, Jazoli mentioned fitting them the night before?? So I'd suspect it's new equipment failure rather than a prolonged failure.
Question is would you fit a kak metal brake pedal in the family car?? If not, why is it ok on a bike?? If you see the crap that gets melted down by the Chinese metal merchants and used for casting you'd soon have a change of mind!!

[Jazoli]

LoonR1 said:

Lots, but if you read back through this thread BN explains how something gets hot and expands activating the brake. The hotter it gets, the more it expands and the more it pushes the brake on until eventually they're on completely and bang

Yep and you can hear it happeneing as I'm going up Clay Hill, the bike starts bogging down, which is the brakes binding then bang I'm tarmac surfing.

The only reason I fitted them was I wasn't happy with the feel and lever travel of the front brake the night before I set off to the TD and didn't have time to piss about so just bunged the levers on to give me a bit more adjustment over the standard ones as the brakes felt spongy, they had been in the bottom of my toolbox for the last couple of years, I had my standard levers in my toolbox at oulton

And Yazza, it was halfway round the second sighting lap , not the third

[bass gt3]

Jazoli said:

Yep and you can hear it happeneing as I'm going up Clay Hill, the bike starts bogging down, which is the brakes binding then bang I'm tarmac surfing.

The only reason I fitted them was I wasn't happy with the feel and lever travel of the front brake the night before I set off to the TD and didn't have time to piss about so just bunged the levers on to give me a bit more adjustment over the standard ones as the brakes felt spongy, they had been in the bottom of my toolbox for the last couple of years, I had my standard levers in my toolbox at oulton

And Yazza, it was halfway round the second sighting lap , not the third

Did the levers have reach adjusters??

[LoonR1]

So a Yes and a No in response. As everyone knows I don't understand this stuff but am lucky enough to be able to get the expensive stuff so am unlikely to suffer. Although I did have a rear brake lever vanish on me on Friday (not that I ever use it).

[grahamr88]

I suspect the issue with the brake lever was that due to poor tolerances, it applied the brake just enough to cover up the compensating port, which is supposed to allow fluid to expand into the reservoir as it heats up. With this covered up, as the brakes heat up from use and the fluid expands, the pads are forced towards the disc. Once they start rubbing the heat build-up increases, and they're forced on harder and so on until the wheel locks.

Spinning the wheel on the paddock stand wouldn't reveal this problem, it's not until the brakes get hot that it manifests itself. The good news for those with cheap Chinese levers is that if it hasn't happened already, it isn't likely to happen now. I wouldn't want to buy new ones though, which interestingly means that second-hand, pre-tested levers should probably be worth more than new ones.

[fergus]

Jazoli said:

The only reason I fitted them was I wasn't happy with the feel and lever travel of the front brake the night before I set off to the TD and didn't have time to piss about so just bunged the levers on to give me a bit more adjustment over the standard ones as the brakes felt spongy,

How does a new brake lever cure the fluid bleeding problems you've alluded to above?

As Steve said, not sure how on a t/day, within 3 laps you'd be able to get enough heat in the system to even remotely warm the brake fluid, let alone transfer this from the m/c to the lever

Could it have been sticky pistons in the caliper, which began to bind, then got hotter and hotter than locked your front wheel?

[Yazza54]

Oh yeah I was on my third lap when I came back around and saw your trumpet smeared down the road from the second lap

[theshrew]

Yazza How did you find your new bike ya old fart

[Jazoli]

theshrew said:

Yazza How did you find your new bike ya old fart

He was loving it, that's why he was such a miserable bd

[Prof Prolapse]

bass gt3 said:

LoonR1 said:

Prof Prolapse said:

I have the Chinese levers of over two years.

What fails on them?

Lots, but if you read back through this thread BN explains how something gets hot and expands activating the brake. The hotter it gets, the more it expands and the more it pushes the brake on until eventually they're on completely and bang

Not sure thermal expansion would be the cause of such failures TBH. Even considering the shyte metal chinky manufacturers tend to use, it won't expand enough to do this. We're talking a few mm of movement in the system to activate the master cylinder.
However, given their superb materials and machining quality, it's quite possible they weren't fitting well and began to bind themselves on.
If I recall, Jazoli mentioned fitting them the night before?? So I'd suspect it's new equipment failure rather than a prolonged failure.
Question is would you fit a kak metal brake pedal in the family car?? If not, why is it ok on a bike?? If you see the crap that gets melted down by the Chinese metal merchants and used for casting you'd soon have a change of mind!!

I tried to read back Loon but there's 26 pages and it seemed easier to ask.

I'm not debating whether to have them fitted as such, I just want to know what actually fails as this is the crux of the argument to me. The reason I have them is because they're very simple things, everything obviously fits and works as it should. I appreciate casting material is generally not fabulous on these items, I call it "monkey metal" myself, but ultimately it is very strong, and isn't under any significant stress even under a good handful of braking. Like wise the adjuster I looked at last week, which are the most complicated bit, seem fine, simple, and wearing well.

I'm entirely open to the concept they're for the bin, but generalisations about quality of materials and poor QC doesn't seem enough to throw away something which has worked for years, and replace it with the OEM levers which I find uncomfortable, or spend hundreds on Gucci levers which frankly I'm not willing to do at the moment.

I fit cheap parts to many things. I don't subscribe to the paying more is always better philosophy that people seem to adopt when they have too much expendable income, but I do like to think I judge things as fit for purpose before I do so. Which I felt I had done successfully in this instance.

[bass gt3]

Prof Prolapse said:

I tried to read back Loon but there's 26 pages and it seemed easier to ask.

I'm not debating whether to have them fitted as such, I just want to know what actually fails as this is the crux of the argument to me. The reason I have them is because they're very simple things, everything obviously fits and works as it should. I appreciate casting material is generally not fabulous on these items, I call it "monkey metal" myself, but ultimately it is very strong, and isn't under any significant stress even under a good handful of braking. Like wise the adjuster I looked at last week, which are the most complicated bit, seem fine, simple, and wearing well.

I'm entirely open to the concept they're for the bin, but generalisations about quality of materials and poor QC doesn't seem enough to throw away something which has worked for years, and replace it with the OEM levers which I find uncomfortable, or spend hundreds on Gucci levers which frankly I'm not willing to do at the moment.

I fit cheap parts to many things. I don't subscribe to the paying more is always better philosophy that people seem to adopt when they have too much expendable income, but I do like to think I judge things as fit for purpose before I do so. Which I felt I had done successfully in this instance.

I think it's a case of if they've been fine for 2 years, they're ok. It seems to be the "new fitment" cases such as Jazoli's.
In essence, it's a bit of a lottery if they're any good, something you may only find out the hard way.

[Jazoli]

fergus said:

How does a new brake lever cure the fluid bleeding problems you've alluded to above?

As Steve said, not sure how on a t/day, within 3 laps you'd be able to get enough heat in the system to even remotely warm the brake fluid, let alone transfer this from the m/c to the lever

Could it have been sticky pistons in the caliper, which began to bind, then got hotter and hotter than locked your front wheel?

I said they felt a bit spongy the night before even after being properly bled with fresh fluid, I'd not even ridden the bike at this point after buying it so just thought they might be a bit crap anyway, the pistons were not sticky as they are all brand new, they moved freely back and forth and popped out easily when I looked at it yesterday, I have big hands so like my levers a long way from the bar, anyway it doesn't matter now, my bike is fked and its going to cost me £lots to fix it, but will be thoroughly tested before I take it back on track

Edited by Jazoli on Monday 2nd March 18:06

[Prof Prolapse]

bass gt3 said:

I think it's a case of if they've been fine for 2 years, they're ok. It seems to be the "new fitment" cases such as Jazoli's.
In essence, it's a bit of a lottery if they're any good, something you may only find out the hard way.

I like those odds.

I'll have another look before I take it to the track.

More than anything I'd feel a right dhead if they failed now.