quickshifter help
Discussion
Mr OCD - have you got the HM superlite yet?
I am close to placing the order for one.
I have read recently that an updated version may be coming out of the Superlite as there has been some issues with the pre set kill times not working for some bikes ( mainly KTMRC8 ) but I think there are no issues with IL4's
I am close to placing the order for one.
I have read recently that an updated version may be coming out of the Superlite as there has been some issues with the pre set kill times not working for some bikes ( mainly KTMRC8 ) but I think there are no issues with IL4's
rat840771 said:
Mr OCD - have you got the HM superlite yet?
I am close to placing the order for one.
I have read recently that an updated version may be coming out of the Superlite as there has been some issues with the pre set kill times not working for some bikes ( mainly KTMRC8 ) but I think there are no issues with IL4's
Nope... decided other bits for the bike were more important. No real plans to buy one in all honesty as I've no plans to do any track work this year.I am close to placing the order for one.
I have read recently that an updated version may be coming out of the Superlite as there has been some issues with the pre set kill times not working for some bikes ( mainly KTMRC8 ) but I think there are no issues with IL4's
rat840771 said:
Mr OCD - have you got the HM superlite yet?
I am close to placing the order for one.
I have read recently that an updated version may be coming out of the Superlite as there has been some issues with the pre set kill times not working for some bikes ( mainly KTMRC8 ) but I think there are no issues with IL4's
I've got one on an RR8 fireblade - no issues with kill times for me.I am close to placing the order for one.
I have read recently that an updated version may be coming out of the Superlite as there has been some issues with the pre set kill times not working for some bikes ( mainly KTMRC8 ) but I think there are no issues with IL4's
Only downside is, if it gets really wet (i.e. caught in a torrential downpour) it has a habit of stopping working until it dries out again (usually the next day). Annoying, but not a huge problem.
gsxr renegade said:
rat840771 said:
Mr OCD - have you got the HM superlite yet?
I am close to placing the order for one.
I have read recently that an updated version may be coming out of the Superlite as there has been some issues with the pre set kill times not working for some bikes ( mainly KTMRC8 ) but I think there are no issues with IL4's
I've got one on an RR8 fireblade - no issues with kill times for me.I am close to placing the order for one.
I have read recently that an updated version may be coming out of the Superlite as there has been some issues with the pre set kill times not working for some bikes ( mainly KTMRC8 ) but I think there are no issues with IL4's
Only downside is, if it gets really wet (i.e. caught in a torrential downpour) it has a habit of stopping working until it dries out again (usually the next day). Annoying, but not a huge problem.
Yazza54 said:
Wouldn't be best pleased about the fault when wet, it should be a sealed item, if water is getting in it could eventually damage it
No, to be honest I wasn't either but I took is a given since I use it in all weathers for commuting. It may even because I didn't seal the connections properly when installing. I just can't be arsed to take the loom apart and clean it properly! LolHM's are strain gauge based - a slightly complicated bit of electronics that measures the force on the part you insert into the linkage, then triggers an ignition cut for a certain amount of time at a certain configurable load (sensitivity). The superlite operates in push and pull, others can have the functions separated, that is all down to processing electronics.
On the ignition side, the quickshifter loom sits between the ECU and the plug top coils. The coils are 'charged' continuously by low voltage (12v I would expect in most cases), and fire the high voltage side (a spark) when that charging is interrupted - in that way you can consider them 'always on', however they are firing/switching many times per second - you would observe a square(ish) wave on an oscilloscope, it is both the charge and the trigger.
When the quickshifter is activated, it connects an earth (back to battery) directly to the coil supply (possibly via some load to avoid a direct short, but I don't know for sure, coils are very low resistance in the first place). This means that the coil is not charged, so there is no spark. The 'signal' is still present with the on/off characteristic, but it is 'diverted' away from the ignition. When the cut period ends, the connection to earth is removed, and the normal operation remains.
On the ignition side, the quickshifter loom sits between the ECU and the plug top coils. The coils are 'charged' continuously by low voltage (12v I would expect in most cases), and fire the high voltage side (a spark) when that charging is interrupted - in that way you can consider them 'always on', however they are firing/switching many times per second - you would observe a square(ish) wave on an oscilloscope, it is both the charge and the trigger.
When the quickshifter is activated, it connects an earth (back to battery) directly to the coil supply (possibly via some load to avoid a direct short, but I don't know for sure, coils are very low resistance in the first place). This means that the coil is not charged, so there is no spark. The 'signal' is still present with the on/off characteristic, but it is 'diverted' away from the ignition. When the cut period ends, the connection to earth is removed, and the normal operation remains.
upsidedownmark said:
HM's are strain gauge based - a slightly complicated bit of electronics that measures the force on the part you insert into the linkage, then triggers an ignition cut for a certain amount of time at a certain configurable load (sensitivity). The superlite operates in push and pull, others can have the functions separated, that is all down to processing electronics.
On the ignition side, the quickshifter loom sits between the ECU and the plug top coils. The coils are 'charged' continuously by low voltage (12v I would expect in most cases), and fire the high voltage side (a spark) when that charging is interrupted - in that way you can consider them 'always on', however they are firing/switching many times per second - you would observe a square(ish) wave on an oscilloscope, it is both the charge and the trigger.
When the quickshifter is activated, it connects an earth (back to battery) directly to the coil supply (possibly via some load to avoid a direct short, but I don't know for sure, coils are very low resistance in the first place). This means that the coil is not charged, so there is no spark. The 'signal' is still present with the on/off characteristic, but it is 'diverted' away from the ignition. When the cut period ends, the connection to earth is removed, and the normal operation remains.
Yeah, all that I'm aware of.On the ignition side, the quickshifter loom sits between the ECU and the plug top coils. The coils are 'charged' continuously by low voltage (12v I would expect in most cases), and fire the high voltage side (a spark) when that charging is interrupted - in that way you can consider them 'always on', however they are firing/switching many times per second - you would observe a square(ish) wave on an oscilloscope, it is both the charge and the trigger.
When the quickshifter is activated, it connects an earth (back to battery) directly to the coil supply (possibly via some load to avoid a direct short, but I don't know for sure, coils are very low resistance in the first place). This means that the coil is not charged, so there is no spark. The 'signal' is still present with the on/off characteristic, but it is 'diverted' away from the ignition. When the cut period ends, the connection to earth is removed, and the normal operation remains.
I will try to explain what my question really is about.
This little washer type sensor - When enough force is applied to the sensor, does it close or open the circuit? Does it send the signal back to the quickshifter box, or does it cut the signal to the quickshifter box?
And one more thing, at what voltage can this sensor operate? 12V I assume?
Thank you!
Siqqe said:
Yeah, all that I'm aware of.
Doesn't sound like it.Siqqe said:
I will try to explain what my question really is about.
Its answered in the last two paragraphs above your post.The quickshifter turns off the coils when triggered for a set amount of time. The 'washer' sends a signal to the 'box' which then cuts the coils. Assuming 12v seems pretty sensible.
If you want a more detailed explanation talk to the guys at Healtech they are pretty helpful.
Edited by trickywoo on Thursday 30th April 10:12
Siqqe said:
Yeah, all that I'm aware of.
I will try to explain what my question really is about.
This little washer type sensor - When enough force is applied to the sensor, does it close or open the circuit? Does it send the signal back to the quickshifter box, or does it cut the signal to the quickshifter box?
And one more thing, at what voltage can this sensor operate? 12V I assume?
Thank you!
Taken from HM Plus SS user guide:I will try to explain what my question really is about.
This little washer type sensor - When enough force is applied to the sensor, does it close or open the circuit? Does it send the signal back to the quickshifter box, or does it cut the signal to the quickshifter box?
And one more thing, at what voltage can this sensor operate? 12V I assume?
Thank you!
A load cell is simply a strain gauge with an amplifier that produces a voltage relative to the force being applied. This is typically 2.5V for no load and increases to 5V for a positive load (PUSH) or decreases to 0V for a negative load (PULL). To use a load cell as a quickshifter, external electronics are required to convert this voltage signal to a method of cutting the ignition, typically via an ignition controller.
trickywoo said:
Its answered in the last two paragraphs above your post.
The quickshifter turns off the coils when triggered for a set amount of time. The 'washer' sends a signal to the 'box' which then cuts the coils. Assuming 12v seems pretty sensible.
If you want a more detailed explanation talk to the guys at Healtech they are pretty helpful.
I still understand how the quickshifter works, and that the quickshifter box cuts the coils, but that's not my question. No need to be rude just because you don't understand my question.The quickshifter turns off the coils when triggered for a set amount of time. The 'washer' sends a signal to the 'box' which then cuts the coils. Assuming 12v seems pretty sensible.
If you want a more detailed explanation talk to the guys at Healtech they are pretty helpful.
Edited by trickywoo on Thursday 30th April 10:12
clen666 said:
Taken from HM Plus SS user guide:
A load cell is simply a strain gauge with an amplifier that produces a voltage relative to the force being applied. This is typically 2.5V for no load and increases to 5V for a positive load (PUSH) or decreases to 0V for a negative load (PULL). To use a load cell as a quickshifter, external electronics are required to convert this voltage signal to a method of cutting the ignition, typically via an ignition controller.
Thank you! That answers my questions.A load cell is simply a strain gauge with an amplifier that produces a voltage relative to the force being applied. This is typically 2.5V for no load and increases to 5V for a positive load (PUSH) or decreases to 0V for a negative load (PULL). To use a load cell as a quickshifter, external electronics are required to convert this voltage signal to a method of cutting the ignition, typically via an ignition controller.
At a very simplified level, maybe that answers your question, but you're thinking about it in the wrong manner/don't understand clearly.
The 'ignition circuit' is continually opening and closing in normal operation, otherwise the bike wouldn't run. It isn't on or off, it is a signal, not a solid voltage.
The quickshifter activation interrupts that pattern, effectively holding the ignition signal 'off'. Looking at the wiring I just fitted to my bike, I'm 90% sure it doesn't actually break the circuit at all; it just provides an easier path to earth. Instead of having only one place to go, the electricity has two options. Like water flowing downhill, electricity takes the easiest path; if you allow it directly back to earth, it won't bother running around the plug top coil, so not charging it. Nothing gets disconnected. Depending on why you ask this question, that might be important.
And yes, it was explained the last two paragraphs of my original answer
Edit to add:
The strain gauge is a resistance, that resistance varies under load. It does not send any on/off signal to the quickshifter box. (there's actually miles of very fine wire looped up inside a strain gauge, and the resistance changes in proportion to the very tiny change in length). The 'quickshifter box' measures that resistance and and processes the signal to decide when to trigger. When it triggers it effectively 'cuts' the ignition as described above. The sensor does not cut anything.
Notes:
1) In the case of the superlite, the strain gauge and processing electronics (quickshifter box) are integrated into one package. Functionally as above.
2) HM don't use load cells (an off the shelf integration of a strain gauge and amp), they use a strain gauge and their own custom processing (i.e. the box).
The 'ignition circuit' is continually opening and closing in normal operation, otherwise the bike wouldn't run. It isn't on or off, it is a signal, not a solid voltage.
The quickshifter activation interrupts that pattern, effectively holding the ignition signal 'off'. Looking at the wiring I just fitted to my bike, I'm 90% sure it doesn't actually break the circuit at all; it just provides an easier path to earth. Instead of having only one place to go, the electricity has two options. Like water flowing downhill, electricity takes the easiest path; if you allow it directly back to earth, it won't bother running around the plug top coil, so not charging it. Nothing gets disconnected. Depending on why you ask this question, that might be important.
And yes, it was explained the last two paragraphs of my original answer
Edit to add:
The strain gauge is a resistance, that resistance varies under load. It does not send any on/off signal to the quickshifter box. (there's actually miles of very fine wire looped up inside a strain gauge, and the resistance changes in proportion to the very tiny change in length). The 'quickshifter box' measures that resistance and and processes the signal to decide when to trigger. When it triggers it effectively 'cuts' the ignition as described above. The sensor does not cut anything.
Notes:
1) In the case of the superlite, the strain gauge and processing electronics (quickshifter box) are integrated into one package. Functionally as above.
2) HM don't use load cells (an off the shelf integration of a strain gauge and amp), they use a strain gauge and their own custom processing (i.e. the box).
Edited by upsidedownmark on Thursday 30th April 11:11
upsidedownmark said:
At a very simplified level, maybe that answers your question, but you're thinking about it in the wrong manner; The 'ignition circuit' is continually opening and closing in normal operation, otherwise the bike wouldn't run. It isn't on or off, it is a signal, not a solid voltage.
The quickshifter activation interrupts that pattern, effectively holding the ignition signal 'off'. Looking at the wiring I just fitted to my bike, I'm 90% sure it doesn't actually break the circuit at all; it just provides an easier path to earth. Instead of having only one place to go, the electricity has two options. Like water flowing downhill, electricity takes the easiest path; if you allow it directly back to earth, it won't bother running around the plug top coil, so not charging it. Depending on why you ask this question, that might be important.
And yes, it was explained the last two paragraphs of my original answer
Edit to add:
The strain gauge is a resistance, that resistance varies under load. It does not send any on/off signal to the quickshifter box. (there's actually miles of very fine wire looped up inside a strain gauge, and the resistance changes in proportion to the very tiny change in length). The 'quickshifter box' amplifies and processes that signal and decides when to trigger. When it triggers it effectively 'cuts' the ignition as described above. The sensor does not cut anything.
Yes, I understand.The quickshifter activation interrupts that pattern, effectively holding the ignition signal 'off'. Looking at the wiring I just fitted to my bike, I'm 90% sure it doesn't actually break the circuit at all; it just provides an easier path to earth. Instead of having only one place to go, the electricity has two options. Like water flowing downhill, electricity takes the easiest path; if you allow it directly back to earth, it won't bother running around the plug top coil, so not charging it. Depending on why you ask this question, that might be important.
And yes, it was explained the last two paragraphs of my original answer
Edit to add:
The strain gauge is a resistance, that resistance varies under load. It does not send any on/off signal to the quickshifter box. (there's actually miles of very fine wire looped up inside a strain gauge, and the resistance changes in proportion to the very tiny change in length). The 'quickshifter box' amplifies and processes that signal and decides when to trigger. When it triggers it effectively 'cuts' the ignition as described above. The sensor does not cut anything.
- note that in the case of the superlite, the strain gauge and processing electronics (quickshifter box) are integrated into one package. Functionally as above.
Edited by upsidedownmark on Thursday 30th April 11:03
But the main question was how the strain gauge worked, not how the quickshifter system itself works. But that has been answered now, and Iäm thankful for your response.
Just wanted to add my 2 pence to the thread (again).
It turns out the problems i was having with mine cutting out weren't supposed to be happening and the unit eventually failed completely at the beginning of March.
I got in touch with HM and they organised a warranty replacement fairly quickly which i fitted to the bike.
That replacement unit has just failed on me tonight while i was on my way to my mate's house. Coming up to a roundabout, changing down the gears into 1st, pulled the clutch in and the engine died straight away. Tried re-starting it, but the quickshifter unit just doesn't play ball at all and it just constantly cranks over and doesn't fire.
I'll be sending this one back to HM and getting a refund, as i now just don't have any confidence that another replacement unit will function correctly.
It turns out the problems i was having with mine cutting out weren't supposed to be happening and the unit eventually failed completely at the beginning of March.
I got in touch with HM and they organised a warranty replacement fairly quickly which i fitted to the bike.
That replacement unit has just failed on me tonight while i was on my way to my mate's house. Coming up to a roundabout, changing down the gears into 1st, pulled the clutch in and the engine died straight away. Tried re-starting it, but the quickshifter unit just doesn't play ball at all and it just constantly cranks over and doesn't fire.
I'll be sending this one back to HM and getting a refund, as i now just don't have any confidence that another replacement unit will function correctly.
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