MCN test of the new R1
Discussion
3DP said:
Lincsblokey said:
You say your away from the curve Pete, but your not.
MCIA figures, The Fireblade was still the best selling 1000cc bike of 2014.
BMW increased massively, but still short of the blade.
And we all know how many electronic aids they come with.....
I didn't know that - although for me, the Blade is much better to ride than the S1000RR on the road, just because of the engine characteristics in the bottom and mid-range, comfort and front end. The true acid test is what Honda replace the current Blade with and how it sells. MCIA figures, The Fireblade was still the best selling 1000cc bike of 2014.
BMW increased massively, but still short of the blade.
And we all know how many electronic aids they come with.....
Is the current Blade the last and best of the analogue Superbikes before they are consigned to history, or are Honda going to take a different path, still focusing on total control, with perhaps just the bare minimum of gadgets to keep up with the other manufacturers?
WSB seems less important than ever and they still win at the halo road events like the TT so perhaps they will keep up the Blade ethos with a blatantly more road focused bike, whilst the likes of Yamaha/BMW chase the tech, but perhaps don't get the sales.
Ducati, interestingly have realised the lower relevance of overly focused race bikes for the road with the launch of the 1299. A better road bike than the 1199 and not eligible for raceing, but also infused with electronics. Smartly, the non-S model loses a fair bit of the tech.
The new blade is coming, of that there is no doubt now, as you say it's which direction they choose. Do they go for a more rounded package with a few ponies less than the Germans but a better chassis as is now, or do they go all out and introduce a masterpiece, we all know they are certainly capable of it, but I'm not so sure that those within Honda wanting to put Mr German in his place will be able to have it their way over the bean counters.
The good thing for is is Yamaha have a new bike out, and nothing, road or track, gets the Big H's back up like a new Yam.
sc0tt said:
Does it flame on over run?
Dude, that's typically a function of fuelling maps, (i.e. whether injectors are closed when throttle =0%). I've set the ECU in my Caterham to do this, however, it f...s the exhaust wadding as most ends up blown out of the can....Some poorly setup QS will also do this, depending on how they seek reduce the torque to the dogs in the gearbox when a signal has been received for a gearchange. But this is generally more a rifle crack type sound.
Fleegle said:
PR36 said:
Fleegle said:
PR36 said:
Sorry I've no desire to offend anyone but I've raced for many years and when I hear guys talking about using max lean, tc, using max throttle etc it just sounds like baloney. .
May I ask at what level you raced?What were you riding and what era was more where my question was coming from
fergus said:
sc0tt said:
Does it flame on over run?
Dude, that's typically a function of fuelling maps, (i.e. whether injectors are closed when throttle =0%). I've set the ECU in my Caterham to do this, however, it f...s the exhaust wadding as most ends up blown out of the can....Flames are nice though.
Well I somewhat agree with the not too much electrotrickery thing.
But i think you have to differentiate between track and road.
ABS, traction control, are sensible for the road, they don't really allow you to go faster on the track.
Anti slip has nothing to do with the road as I can't believe anyone will be needing an antislip defence on anything but banzi licence losing road driving.
But, the best bike I ever took on track was a 2000 model R1 without even a steering damper. The best car I've ever taken on track was a TVR Cerbera. Neither was the fastest thing on the day, but mainly down to me rather than the vehicle, and the track is all about learning isn't it? What sort of fun learning is there otherwise. Does anyone here go on a trackday to see if they can edge their time up a second or so?
But i think you have to differentiate between track and road.
ABS, traction control, are sensible for the road, they don't really allow you to go faster on the track.
Anti slip has nothing to do with the road as I can't believe anyone will be needing an antislip defence on anything but banzi licence losing road driving.
But, the best bike I ever took on track was a 2000 model R1 without even a steering damper. The best car I've ever taken on track was a TVR Cerbera. Neither was the fastest thing on the day, but mainly down to me rather than the vehicle, and the track is all about learning isn't it? What sort of fun learning is there otherwise. Does anyone here go on a trackday to see if they can edge their time up a second or so?
PR36 said:
Fleegle said:
PR36 said:
Fleegle said:
PR36 said:
Sorry I've no desire to offend anyone but I've raced for many years and when I hear guys talking about using max lean, tc, using max throttle etc it just sounds like baloney. .
May I ask at what level you raced?What were you riding and what era was more where my question was coming from
I just wanted to establish that you had run modern machinery in anger
PS...can't blame you for not riding on the road. Its getting shyter by the day
Lincsblokey said:
I can't say I know what the new blade will or won't have, but someone did stumble upon a couple of interesting parts added to Honda Intranet (and subsequently deleted) relating to cbr1000rr and a map switch.
So it's getting satnav ?
Lincsblokey said:
The good thing for is is Yamaha have a new bike out
ISIS ?
Pass.3DP said:
I agree that it would be a great bike too without the electronics. I would argue, why not give an option for a vanilla, lower priced one, perhaps just with ABS? If it doesn't sell, then clearly the market doesn't want it.
I think where the gimmick side is truly shown for what it is, is the trickledown to 600s and MT09s and the like, with power modes, TC and antiwheelie on bikes that lets face it, have zero need for these. A basic TC to act for wet weather safety is the most that you could argue.
I agree with your point on BMW - I was seriously considering an S1000R recently - especially after the MCN bike show, but BMW pre-sets mean you have to spec up the electronics in order to get enough control to turn them right down/off. So their sales dept says "People want lots of electronics - look at the sales figures of the options", when really I'd have to pay an extra £1k to have the ability to turn them off.
Your Aprilia seems to have the best electronics recipe and there were some great deals to be had, but it's not comfortable for me and rightly or wrongly I don't really trust that V4, or Aprilia dealers' warranty service.
As someone who has had both I have to agree with you, the lack of adjustability of the BMWs system was annoying as you can't fine tune it to how you actually ride, and in honesty I only ever had it come on a couple of times on the road-in the wet where it wouldn't have thrown me off or anything anyway. The system on the Aprilia is miles better as it's fully adjustable, like bassgt3 said above, level 8 is annoyingly intrusive, it will cut power noticeably doing a fast pull away from lights in the dry!!, on the lower levels, again I've not had it come on a lot on the road, on a trackday though it is brilliant, yes you can get on the power out of bends earlier once you get used to it, I still couldn't get on the throttle at full lean though!!.I think where the gimmick side is truly shown for what it is, is the trickledown to 600s and MT09s and the like, with power modes, TC and antiwheelie on bikes that lets face it, have zero need for these. A basic TC to act for wet weather safety is the most that you could argue.
I agree with your point on BMW - I was seriously considering an S1000R recently - especially after the MCN bike show, but BMW pre-sets mean you have to spec up the electronics in order to get enough control to turn them right down/off. So their sales dept says "People want lots of electronics - look at the sales figures of the options", when really I'd have to pay an extra £1k to have the ability to turn them off.
Your Aprilia seems to have the best electronics recipe and there were some great deals to be had, but it's not comfortable for me and rightly or wrongly I don't really trust that V4, or Aprilia dealers' warranty service.
I wrote a feature a few years ago that involved lapping an empty circuit on a GSX-R 1000 and an S1000RR. The aim was to see if I was actually going any faster on the bike with the 'safety net' that TC and good ABS provides. I was marginally quicker (1.1 seconds off the top of my head) on the BMW. I was making up the time at the end of big straights, maybe because I was getting better drive onto them off the preceding corner because of traction control, maybe just because the RR pulled away at the end of the big straights because it simply made more power. I know the traction was working, but it certainly didn't feel like I was relying on the electronics in anyway. In fact in some sections of the circuit (Mireval) where we expected the BMW to gap the Suzuki (big braking sections into tight corners), the older 'analogue' bike was quicker than the newer one. I'm all for more power and more tech, but it's hard to know how much better you'd go with rider aids unless you could run bikes back to back on the same day. I know for a fact it takes massive conkers to go to the stop in second gear when you're knee down, whether a bike has TC or not. The good guys have the skill to deal with what a bike does after that bit regardless of electronics, the rest of us (me definitely included) assume that the world will end if things get too far out of shape and settle for gobbing off about how good they are in the paddock. Also, in ten years of going on press launches nobody has ever told me what I can or can't write about a bike just because they're paying for dinner. I'd absolutely love to be handed a brown envelope stuffed full of cash by a manufacturer, it simply doesn't happen.
I went with a mate who was buying a bike today and I had a chat with the Yamaha guy. He said the first allocations of r1s had all sold out nationwide. The second allocations set for August were nearing the point of selling out. He said realistically you'd be looking at next January for a bike. And no chance of a dealer getting a demo bike as obviously they don't even have enough stock to sell yet.
And the r1m's obviously sold out quickly but he said that wasn't anything to do with the dealers it all went through Yamaha direct.
Impressive sales considering all of those people either haven't even sat on the bike or may of at one of the shows. But none of them have ridden or heard it.
And the r1m's obviously sold out quickly but he said that wasn't anything to do with the dealers it all went through Yamaha direct.
Impressive sales considering all of those people either haven't even sat on the bike or may of at one of the shows. But none of them have ridden or heard it.
Tim85 said:
I went with a mate who was buying a bike today and I had a chat with the Yamaha guy. He said the first allocations of r1s had all sold out nationwide. The second allocations set for August were nearing the point of selling out. He said realistically you'd be looking at next January for a bike. And no chance of a dealer getting a demo bike as obviously they don't even have enough stock to sell yet.
And the r1m's obviously sold out quickly but he said that wasn't anything to do with the dealers it all went through Yamaha direct.
Impressive sales considering all of those people either haven't even sat on the bike or may of at one of the shows. But none of them have ridden or heard it.
My take on this is that there is a lot of pent up 'Yamaha Superbike' demand in the system. There's a generation of 40 somethings with disposable income that grew up on Yamaha 2 stroke fumes and are intensely loyal to the brand. I would argue that Yamaha probably have the best brand loyalty of the Jap manufacturers amongst their buyers. They haven't had anything new in the sport bike arena for the brand since 2009. It will be interesting to see how it does in the second year and after group tests prove whether it's better than the RSV4/S1000RR/ZX10R/1299 in real life. It really has to be at that price, if they want continued sales with the fastest/newest is bestest buyers, as it won't sell on looks alone!And the r1m's obviously sold out quickly but he said that wasn't anything to do with the dealers it all went through Yamaha direct.
Impressive sales considering all of those people either haven't even sat on the bike or may of at one of the shows. But none of them have ridden or heard it.
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