the bb trackday thread.
Discussion
Back to the timing questions.
Thinking about yesterday at Oulton all groups were full and the mix of ability quite pronounced. The Fast group had some really slow riders in, so on paper they'd get moved down. However, as the day was sold out then some would have to move up from Inters. That group was not fast at all. In fact many of the top end of that group would have been just as out of place as the other riders in Fast. The same applied np between Novice and Inters.
Unless TDOs have to leave spaces clear in each group to be able to move riders without backfilling. That would mean a 20% dearer day assuming 10 empty spaces in a group of 50 and probably mean less trackdaya at some tracks, as the TDO can't sell out the days at the higher price (see the difference between a sold out day on Weds at £159 vs a Bank Holiday £190 meaning only 30 places sold out of 120.
Thinking about yesterday at Oulton all groups were full and the mix of ability quite pronounced. The Fast group had some really slow riders in, so on paper they'd get moved down. However, as the day was sold out then some would have to move up from Inters. That group was not fast at all. In fact many of the top end of that group would have been just as out of place as the other riders in Fast. The same applied np between Novice and Inters.
Unless TDOs have to leave spaces clear in each group to be able to move riders without backfilling. That would mean a 20% dearer day assuming 10 empty spaces in a group of 50 and probably mean less trackdaya at some tracks, as the TDO can't sell out the days at the higher price (see the difference between a sold out day on Weds at £159 vs a Bank Holiday £190 meaning only 30 places sold out of 120.
LoonR1 said:
Back to the timing questions.
Thinking about yesterday at Oulton all groups were full and the mix of ability quite pronounced. The Fast group had some really slow riders in, so on paper they'd get moved down. However, as the day was sold out then some would have to move up from Inters. That group was not fast at all. In fact many of the top end of that group would have been just as out of place as the other riders in Fast. The same applied np between Novice and Inters.
Unless TDOs have to leave spaces clear in each group to be able to move riders without backfilling. That would mean a 20% dearer day assuming 10 empty spaces in a group of 50 and probably mean less trackdaya at some tracks, as the TDO can't sell out the days at the higher price (see the difference between a sold out day on Weds at £159 vs a Bank Holiday £190 meaning only 30 places sold out of 120.
And this is where transponders would be useful in my opinion. Thinking about yesterday at Oulton all groups were full and the mix of ability quite pronounced. The Fast group had some really slow riders in, so on paper they'd get moved down. However, as the day was sold out then some would have to move up from Inters. That group was not fast at all. In fact many of the top end of that group would have been just as out of place as the other riders in Fast. The same applied np between Novice and Inters.
Unless TDOs have to leave spaces clear in each group to be able to move riders without backfilling. That would mean a 20% dearer day assuming 10 empty spaces in a group of 50 and probably mean less trackdaya at some tracks, as the TDO can't sell out the days at the higher price (see the difference between a sold out day on Weds at £159 vs a Bank Holiday £190 meaning only 30 places sold out of 120.
Fleegle said:
I agree on your first point. BUT……..with 3 groups to choose from surely self preservation and common sense should prevail. Not everyone can afford to go racing so use trackdays as their outlet, there are also those that have raced and packed up who use these days for keeping their eye in. However, everyone should feel safe, and this can only happen if people choose wisely
Why should a fast rider have his fun curtailed by a wobbler in the wrong group, conversely, why should the wobbler feel like he’s being passed too closely when faster riders actually consider it safe ??
I had a situation on Monday where I found myself approaching a wobbler coming in to Richies at around 40mph slower, who then decided to cut in from the extreme left side and almost do a right hand turn rather than a nice sweeping curve. I had already tipped in on a line that a second prior to that seemed safe, but instantly had to start braking to avoid t-boning someone out of their depth. I shouldn’t be angry about this but when he then went on to shake his head and waving his leg at me it did piss me off. While the onus is on me to pass safely, coming down the start finish straight at probably in the region of 140 - 150mph it is easy to deal with people doing speeds within say 20mph difference, but when you are talking 40-50 difference they are soon upon you. This particular chap was no more than a slow to mid paced Inter. His poor choice of group could have been the end of both of our day.
Totally agree sounds like a nightmare. A mate was taken out by a guy who out-braked himself, basically travelling at a much higher speed in the wrong group then panicked. I guess my main point is every TD is open to this sort of thing if the riders aren't honest with themselves. It's just ego, so what if someone else is quicker, I can't think of a less fun thing to do than be sat mid corner knowing that you're in the way.Why should a fast rider have his fun curtailed by a wobbler in the wrong group, conversely, why should the wobbler feel like he’s being passed too closely when faster riders actually consider it safe ??
I had a situation on Monday where I found myself approaching a wobbler coming in to Richies at around 40mph slower, who then decided to cut in from the extreme left side and almost do a right hand turn rather than a nice sweeping curve. I had already tipped in on a line that a second prior to that seemed safe, but instantly had to start braking to avoid t-boning someone out of their depth. I shouldn’t be angry about this but when he then went on to shake his head and waving his leg at me it did piss me off. While the onus is on me to pass safely, coming down the start finish straight at probably in the region of 140 - 150mph it is easy to deal with people doing speeds within say 20mph difference, but when you are talking 40-50 difference they are soon upon you. This particular chap was no more than a slow to mid paced Inter. His poor choice of group could have been the end of both of our day.
A few of us worked out the costs once and a few years back the most quality time was either in Spain or over a weekend race, with free practice on the Friday. That was something like £200 for the entry but you had 2-3 races and two solid days of riding. Worst value was Donnington, same sort of money for 9 laps or something which was a joke, it also pissed down and the place was like glass. I think if you pick the right club it's an alternative as long as you set a budget, not sure if it's still the same cost wise? You definitely get less of the BS, people don't tend to stay long if they fall out with the paddock and get a s
tty reputation. Fleegle said:
And this is where transponders would be useful in my opinion.
And evidence of previous lap times. Without evidence, you have to start in C group and work up. Think of it like a TD license system. You only get to A group if you have proof of previous laps at the venue and their average is within the A group bracket.Even race license holders shouldn't be exempt except for certain categories, International/BSB/SStock etc.
Wouldn't take long for enough data to be acquired to start streaming applicants into their correct group...
yonex said:
Fleegle said:
I agree on your first point. BUT……..with 3 groups to choose from surely self preservation and common sense should prevail. Not everyone can afford to go racing so use trackdays as their outlet, there are also those that have raced and packed up who use these days for keeping their eye in. However, everyone should feel safe, and this can only happen if people choose wisely
Why should a fast rider have his fun curtailed by a wobbler in the wrong group, conversely, why should the wobbler feel like he’s being passed too closely when faster riders actually consider it safe ??
I had a situation on Monday where I found myself approaching a wobbler coming in to Richies at around 40mph slower, who then decided to cut in from the extreme left side and almost do a right hand turn rather than a nice sweeping curve. I had already tipped in on a line that a second prior to that seemed safe, but instantly had to start braking to avoid t-boning someone out of their depth. I shouldn’t be angry about this but when he then went on to shake his head and waving his leg at me it did piss me off. While the onus is on me to pass safely, coming down the start finish straight at probably in the region of 140 - 150mph it is easy to deal with people doing speeds within say 20mph difference, but when you are talking 40-50 difference they are soon upon you. This particular chap was no more than a slow to mid paced Inter. His poor choice of group could have been the end of both of our day.
Totally agree sounds like a nightmare. A mate was taken out by a guy who out-braked himself, basically travelling at a much higher speed in the wrong group then panicked. I guess my main point is every TD is open to this sort of thing if the riders aren't honest with themselves. It's just ego, so what if someone else is quicker, I can't think of a less fun thing to do than be sat mid corner knowing that you're in the way.Why should a fast rider have his fun curtailed by a wobbler in the wrong group, conversely, why should the wobbler feel like he’s being passed too closely when faster riders actually consider it safe ??
I had a situation on Monday where I found myself approaching a wobbler coming in to Richies at around 40mph slower, who then decided to cut in from the extreme left side and almost do a right hand turn rather than a nice sweeping curve. I had already tipped in on a line that a second prior to that seemed safe, but instantly had to start braking to avoid t-boning someone out of their depth. I shouldn’t be angry about this but when he then went on to shake his head and waving his leg at me it did piss me off. While the onus is on me to pass safely, coming down the start finish straight at probably in the region of 140 - 150mph it is easy to deal with people doing speeds within say 20mph difference, but when you are talking 40-50 difference they are soon upon you. This particular chap was no more than a slow to mid paced Inter. His poor choice of group could have been the end of both of our day.
A few of us worked out the costs once and a few years back the most quality time was either in Spain or over a weekend race, with free practice on the Friday. That was something like £200 for the entry but you had 2-3 races and two solid days of riding. Worst value was Donnington, same sort of money for 9 laps or something which was a joke, it also pissed down and the place was like glass. I think if you pick the right club it's an alternative as long as you set a budget, not sure if it's still the same cost wise? You definitely get less of the BS, people don't tend to stay long if they fall out with the paddock and get a s
tty reputation. 
yonex said:
Fleegle said:
I agree on your first point. BUT……..with 3 groups to choose from surely self preservation and common sense should prevail. Not everyone can afford to go racing so use trackdays as their outlet, there are also those that have raced and packed up who use these days for keeping their eye in. However, everyone should feel safe, and this can only happen if people choose wisely
Why should a fast rider have his fun curtailed by a wobbler in the wrong group, conversely, why should the wobbler feel like he’s being passed too closely when faster riders actually consider it safe ??
I had a situation on Monday where I found myself approaching a wobbler coming in to Richies at around 40mph slower, who then decided to cut in from the extreme left side and almost do a right hand turn rather than a nice sweeping curve. I had already tipped in on a line that a second prior to that seemed safe, but instantly had to start braking to avoid t-boning someone out of their depth. I shouldn’t be angry about this but when he then went on to shake his head and waving his leg at me it did piss me off. While the onus is on me to pass safely, coming down the start finish straight at probably in the region of 140 - 150mph it is easy to deal with people doing speeds within say 20mph difference, but when you are talking 40-50 difference they are soon upon you. This particular chap was no more than a slow to mid paced Inter. His poor choice of group could have been the end of both of our day.
Totally agree sounds like a nightmare. A mate was taken out by a guy who out-braked himself, basically travelling at a much higher speed in the wrong group then panicked. I guess my main point is every TD is open to this sort of thing if the riders aren't honest with themselves. It's just ego, so what if someone else is quicker, I can't think of a less fun thing to do than be sat mid corner knowing that you're in the way.Why should a fast rider have his fun curtailed by a wobbler in the wrong group, conversely, why should the wobbler feel like he’s being passed too closely when faster riders actually consider it safe ??
I had a situation on Monday where I found myself approaching a wobbler coming in to Richies at around 40mph slower, who then decided to cut in from the extreme left side and almost do a right hand turn rather than a nice sweeping curve. I had already tipped in on a line that a second prior to that seemed safe, but instantly had to start braking to avoid t-boning someone out of their depth. I shouldn’t be angry about this but when he then went on to shake his head and waving his leg at me it did piss me off. While the onus is on me to pass safely, coming down the start finish straight at probably in the region of 140 - 150mph it is easy to deal with people doing speeds within say 20mph difference, but when you are talking 40-50 difference they are soon upon you. This particular chap was no more than a slow to mid paced Inter. His poor choice of group could have been the end of both of our day.
A few of us worked out the costs once and a few years back the most quality time was either in Spain or over a weekend race, with free practice on the Friday. That was something like £200 for the entry but you had 2-3 races and two solid days of riding. Worst value was Donnington, same sort of money for 9 laps or something which was a joke, it also pissed down and the place was like glass. I think if you pick the right club it's an alternative as long as you set a budget, not sure if it's still the same cost wise? You definitely get less of the BS, people don't tend to stay long if they fall out with the paddock and get a s
tty reputation. Even in a budget class, this is a £700 weekend before you feed yourself, maintain your bike, have a beer
I think transponders are a great idea. The problem comes with peoples mindsets. Some people genuinely think their doing really well and the fastest thing since sliced bread even when in reality theyre holding most of the fast group up. Then on the other side like me i try my best to stay humble and always think worse of my riding. hence i stayed in novice too long and will probably not move out of inters for a long while. Im not head hunting, far from it id much rather be out on track on my own but to others i might of frustrated them in novice etc. Then theres those that purposefully head hunt. And the ones that just book whatevers left.
Personally id much rather pay more and have the TDo save 5 spaces per group and shuffle as much as possible when neccesary. I think 100- 160 quid a day is pretty damn good value for the fun i have anyway.
Its like anything, you cant please everyone. Its a business and i think in the most everyday ive been on has been ran superbly.
On a side note my mate races sidecars and he says a lot of people get their acu with no intention of ever racing just so they can use the open pitlane test days as trackdays as they cost a lot less. Id of thought that would be a better day for those really chasing times.
Personally id much rather pay more and have the TDo save 5 spaces per group and shuffle as much as possible when neccesary. I think 100- 160 quid a day is pretty damn good value for the fun i have anyway.
Its like anything, you cant please everyone. Its a business and i think in the most everyday ive been on has been ran superbly.
On a side note my mate races sidecars and he says a lot of people get their acu with no intention of ever racing just so they can use the open pitlane test days as trackdays as they cost a lot less. Id of thought that would be a better day for those really chasing times.
yonex said:
Totally agree sounds like a nightmare. A mate was taken out by a guy who out-braked himself, basically travelling at a much higher speed in the wrong group then panicked. I guess my main point is every TD is open to this sort of thing if the riders aren't honest with themselves. It's just ego, so what if someone else is quicker, I can't think of a less fun thing to do than be sat mid corner knowing that you're in the way.
So now you're agreeing that a slow rider in the wrong group is a potential hazard...And yet......
yonex said:
The idea of track days is to allow people who don't want to race to get on track, that's it.
The moment you start getting pissed off with the level of others is when you need to either a. race, b. shut up and take the track day for what it is, c. take up golf. Still, people love to be big fishes in small ponds..using track days for 'setup' rather than a test day. Yeah, stay classy.
Here you're proposing that a TD is solely for the non racers to experience riding on a track and anyone faster should just suck it up or take up Golf...and that using a TD for anything other than recreational enjoyment is somehow wrong.The moment you start getting pissed off with the level of others is when you need to either a. race, b. shut up and take the track day for what it is, c. take up golf. Still, people love to be big fishes in small ponds..using track days for 'setup' rather than a test day. Yeah, stay classy.
Do you talk s
t for a living or is this just an off day??also theres quite a few companies that do road bike 'novice' only days. so people can opt not to be with the more experienced ones if they wish. Theres also ladies only days now... whats that about. All those hungry men at home wasting away whilst their wives are unshackled for a day. Theyll be voting next!
bass gt3 said:
yonex said:
Totally agree sounds like a nightmare. A mate was taken out by a guy who out-braked himself, basically travelling at a much higher speed in the wrong group then panicked. I guess my main point is every TD is open to this sort of thing if the riders aren't honest with themselves. It's just ego, so what if someone else is quicker, I can't think of a less fun thing to do than be sat mid corner knowing that you're in the way.
So now you're agreeing that a slow rider in the wrong group is a potential hazard...And yet......
yonex said:
The idea of track days is to allow people who don't want to race to get on track, that's it.
The moment you start getting pissed off with the level of others is when you need to either a. race, b. shut up and take the track day for what it is, c. take up golf. Still, people love to be big fishes in small ponds..using track days for 'setup' rather than a test day. Yeah, stay classy.
Here you're proposing that a TD is solely for the non racers to experience riding on a track and anyone faster should just suck it up or take up Golf...and that using a TD for anything other than recreational enjoyment is somehow wrong.The moment you start getting pissed off with the level of others is when you need to either a. race, b. shut up and take the track day for what it is, c. take up golf. Still, people love to be big fishes in small ponds..using track days for 'setup' rather than a test day. Yeah, stay classy.
Do you talk s
t for a living or is this just an off day??neelyp said:
bass gt3 said:
yonex said:
Totally agree sounds like a nightmare. A mate was taken out by a guy who out-braked himself, basically travelling at a much higher speed in the wrong group then panicked. I guess my main point is every TD is open to this sort of thing if the riders aren't honest with themselves. It's just ego, so what if someone else is quicker, I can't think of a less fun thing to do than be sat mid corner knowing that you're in the way.
So now you're agreeing that a slow rider in the wrong group is a potential hazard...And yet......
yonex said:
The idea of track days is to allow people who don't want to race to get on track, that's it.
The moment you start getting pissed off with the level of others is when you need to either a. race, b. shut up and take the track day for what it is, c. take up golf. Still, people love to be big fishes in small ponds..using track days for 'setup' rather than a test day. Yeah, stay classy.
Here you're proposing that a TD is solely for the non racers to experience riding on a track and anyone faster should just suck it up or take up Golf...and that using a TD for anything other than recreational enjoyment is somehow wrong.The moment you start getting pissed off with the level of others is when you need to either a. race, b. shut up and take the track day for what it is, c. take up golf. Still, people love to be big fishes in small ponds..using track days for 'setup' rather than a test day. Yeah, stay classy.
Do you talk s
t for a living or is this just an off day??t load of people love doing them so what does it matter, it's daft commenting (me) 
Back OT...apologies for the derailment.
George29 said:
Try putting the balls of your feet on the pegs not your heels. You will save a lot in toe sliders, and be able to move around on the bike a lot easier.
I did realise this eventually. Does this only apply with your right foot as you never touch the back brake? Or would you move your left around as well - moving your foot back and forth to operate the gears?
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff