the bb trackday thread.
Discussion
I think people are too in a rush to move up groups. I did 5 or 6 novice days, a couple of inters, and then fast. I was far too fast for novice even from my first Trackday as I used to race cars, but I served my time. It helped me get up to speed, learn how to overtake etc.
Not picking on MTB here, but he was in Inters at OP last week. He was doing 2.01 lap times on his 675, but got stuck behind a Ducati doing 2.06's for about 5 laps. Now, you could argue that if he moved up to fast then there shouldn't be anyone going that slowly, but I would argue that if you can't overtake someone doing 5 seconds a lap slower than you, you're not ready to move up to fast and you would benefit from more overtaking practise in inters
Not picking on MTB here, but he was in Inters at OP last week. He was doing 2.01 lap times on his 675, but got stuck behind a Ducati doing 2.06's for about 5 laps. Now, you could argue that if he moved up to fast then there shouldn't be anyone going that slowly, but I would argue that if you can't overtake someone doing 5 seconds a lap slower than you, you're not ready to move up to fast and you would benefit from more overtaking practise in inters
I did four days in Novice before moving into Inters where I have been about two years. I have no plans to move up to fast group for a while yet, and certainly not till I start doing more than 2-3 track days a year and I've a track bike to take the pressure off. I get held up sometimes in Inters but it really doesn't bother me too much as I'll either get past or sit behind and just enjoy the time on track, as it gives me a chance to relax a bit and therefore my riding improves.
You get the impression with some people that they feel being in the fast group is some kind of trophy to say they are quick, and when they don't ride well or get overtaken they spit their dummies out ...
You get the impression with some people that they feel being in the fast group is some kind of trophy to say they are quick, and when they don't ride well or get overtaken they spit their dummies out ...
mckeann said:
I think people are too in a rush to move up groups. I did 5 or 6 novice days, a couple of inters, and then fast. I was far too fast for novice even from my first Trackday as I used to race cars, but I served my time. It helped me get up to speed, learn how to overtake etc.
Not picking on MTB here, but he was in Inters at OP last week. He was doing 2.01 lap times on his 675, but got stuck behind a Ducati doing 2.06's for about 5 laps. Now, you could argue that if he moved up to fast then there shouldn't be anyone going that slowly, but I would argue that if you can't overtake someone doing 5 seconds a lap slower than you, you're not ready to move up to fast and you would benefit from more overtaking practise in inters
I have to agree, that tussle taught me a lot, what with the blocking and the 25bhp he had on me I had to think new lines and ways around, something that you don't get a lot of practice on track days as you tend to not deviate from the racing line. in retrospect I should have just sat the Not picking on MTB here, but he was in Inters at OP last week. He was doing 2.01 lap times on his 675, but got stuck behind a Ducati doing 2.06's for about 5 laps. Now, you could argue that if he moved up to fast then there shouldn't be anyone going that slowly, but I would argue that if you can't overtake someone doing 5 seconds a lap slower than you, you're not ready to move up to fast and you would benefit from more overtaking practise in inters
up. I'm far too nice on a track day.moanthebairns said:
in retrospect I should have just sat the up. I'm far too nice on a track day.
I know it's meant tongue in cheek, but it's always best to apologise with a wave if you do sit anyone up. There are people out there who will take great offence by being sat up and immediately get swamped in a descending red mist, which will only end in one way up. I'm far too nice on a track day.If you find having sat someone up and then going on to fluff lines in the next few corners, back right off and let them past you. If you feel that you are getting raggy, just pull in and compose your self
Mr OCD said:
You get the impression with some people that they feel being in the fast group is some kind of trophy to say they are quick, and when they don't ride well or get overtaken they spit their dummies out ...
None of my friends actually do trackdays or the others dont even understand bikes at all so anyone i actually have contact with in real life wouldnt understand why id even spend money of trackdays. But i do see being comfortably in the fast group as the target for myself. Mainly just to know that my ridings improving somehow. Ive done 2 days in novice, the first was awesome as i just loved every second, the 2nd day at cadwell was the most frustrating time on a bike ive ever had as i was clearly too quick for the group and there was no flow at all and probably why i have such sour memories of cadwell. Then ive done two days in inters both id say i was in the top handful of people. Both times felt right id overtake most but there was always 1 or 2 that little bit quicker. I have no intention of moving up until im at the point i was in novice where it ruined the day.
Its interesting and good ha to see that you guys that i do see in fast group didnt just start there and had to work on it. This place being the only place i get any track talk it does sometimes feel like everyones just born super fast. It also baffles me how you lot manage to juggle family/work life with 2/3 track days a month.
When I got back into track riding in 2003 I hadn't been on track for 10 years or so.
I booked into novice at Mallory and got black flagged for being a tad too quick for that group. I was moved into the fast group
For the rest of the year I booked inters then onto fast where I have stayed apart from when I went to snetterton with Fleegle for the first time.
I booked into novice at Mallory and got black flagged for being a tad too quick for that group. I was moved into the fast group
For the rest of the year I booked inters then onto fast where I have stayed apart from when I went to snetterton with Fleegle for the first time.
Tim85 said:
, the 2nd day at cadwell was the most frustrating time on a bike ive ever had as i was clearly too quick for the group and there was no flow at all and probably why i have such sour memories of cadwell. .
Not having a poke, merely baffled.. How could it be frustrating? If going faster than the majority of the Novice group, I really only see a few places at Cadwell that could create bottlenecks.....Mountain through to Old Hairpin and that stupid chicane. Everywhere else has passing opportunites. The start finish all the way through charlies and right up to Park should give a fast novice time to get bikes behind him. Confidence on the brakes will open that up to Mansfield as wellTim85 said:
It also baffles me how you lot manage to juggle family/work life with 2/3 track days a month.
I actually just got a bking this morning for spending too much, I was trying to do one every payday but will have to back it off and do it as and when from now on.I'm not rich even though I frequent PH! I have a wife and two little kids to look after and a bike that loves being spent on.
My wife truly despises bikes so I shouldn't really be pushing my luck with this, I had also completely forgotten how much I enjoyed riding/being around bikes after such a long lay off so would love to stay involved but like I say, will just have to back it off a bit.
Back to the other question, I have done 5 in novice group, I would like to try inters and have booked into that group for Oulton next time but just booking into inters is a pain as you have to do it quite far in advance which sometimes isn't doable.
moanthebairns said:
mckeann said:
I think people are too in a rush to move up groups. I did 5 or 6 novice days, a couple of inters, and then fast. I was far too fast for novice even from my first Trackday as I used to race cars, but I served my time. It helped me get up to speed, learn how to overtake etc.
Not picking on MTB here, but he was in Inters at OP last week. He was doing 2.01 lap times on his 675, but got stuck behind a Ducati doing 2.06's for about 5 laps. Now, you could argue that if he moved up to fast then there shouldn't be anyone going that slowly, but I would argue that if you can't overtake someone doing 5 seconds a lap slower than you, you're not ready to move up to fast and you would benefit from more overtaking practise in inters
I have to agree, that tussle taught me a lot, what with the blocking and the 25bhp he had on me I had to think new lines and ways around, something that you don't get a lot of practice on track days as you tend to not deviate from the racing line. in retrospect I should have just sat the Not picking on MTB here, but he was in Inters at OP last week. He was doing 2.01 lap times on his 675, but got stuck behind a Ducati doing 2.06's for about 5 laps. Now, you could argue that if he moved up to fast then there shouldn't be anyone going that slowly, but I would argue that if you can't overtake someone doing 5 seconds a lap slower than you, you're not ready to move up to fast and you would benefit from more overtaking practise in inters
up. I'm far too nice on a track day.In all seriousness though, you can't just follow someone through a corner and expect to blast past then on a straight. Youneed to hang back a bit, get a run through the corner and be on the throttle before then. Most times I overtake I'm up the inside as they drift wide on corner exit or if they are really slow mid corner I'll go round the outside as they turn in.
Tim85 said:
Its interesting and good ha to see that you guys that i do see in fast group didnt just start there and had to work on it. This place being the only place i get any track talk it does sometimes feel like everyones just born super fast. It also baffles me how you lot manage to juggle family/work life with 2/3 track days a month.
BB does give the impression everyone is pretty fast, fortunately that's not the case in real life. 
I'm deffo in the "need to work at it to be quick" group, I find it impossible to go out and be quick straight off the bat. At the end of all the days I've done recently (Donington, Oulton, Snetterton and Cadwell - all new tracks to me) I've been at the fast end of novice, but I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable moving up to Inters. I'm quite content to sit behind someone for a bit until I can safely get past, not get frustrated and then come storming into the pits raging that it's dangerous out there. It's a trackday, and if you're so fast you should be able to get past. Genuinely the only thing that annoys me about novice, not slow riders or s
t lines, but the guys who stuff it up the inside whether they can get past or not. I'm not sure where I would want to be. Consistently in fast would be my aim over the next few years, but working away might make that hard for me to achieve.
Fleegle said:
Not having a poke, merely baffled.. How could it be frustrating? If going faster than the majority of the Novice group, I really only see a few places at Cadwell that could create bottlenecks.....Mountain through to Old Hairpin and that stupid chicane. Everywhere else has passing opportunites. The start finish all the way through charlies and right up to Park should give a fast novice time to get bikes behind him. Confidence on the brakes will open that up to Mansfield as well
having done very little track days and like mtb being overly nice on road/track the biggest issue i found on track was passing people. Id have the pace to catch up to people then id subconsciously slow to their pace for a lap then find a place to pass with plenty of room then id go on. This was exagerated at cadwel with it being like a go kart track an the novice group was all over the place. This is something that hasnt been much of an issue in inters as its probably the only thing ive consciously focused on and i trusted other riders lines much more. Its still a part of me that i know even if i was the fastest guy out there id never race as its just not in my nature, the same way that you as a racer probably just have it in you to pass people without it even crossing your mind what theyre doing or what may happen its just that annoying thing in my mind thats overly british and polite. I'very only done 2 days for various reasons, went straight into inters as I have plenty of experience riding, the first time I was at the quick end of inters and didn't get passed much, on the second day I was slower as I'd fallen off in the morning, both days were on borrowed bikes so I couldn't really push much as I didn't want to bin it.
Next day will be inters again on my own bike, then we'll see if I'm quick enough to move up, I should be being awesome and all that.
Next day will be inters again on my own bike, then we'll see if I'm quick enough to move up, I should be being awesome and all that.
moanthebairns said:
End of the day its trackday, book onto whatever group you think is right.
Some days will be quick some will be slow.
This.Some days will be quick some will be slow.
Until you turn up on the day, you will have no idea about who has also booked. Sometimes you get MRO lads, etc using the day as a practice day, other times, it's just people wobbling around...
Erm
Day 1. Novice - Loons old R1, bit of a taster
Day 2. Novice - Bought an old SRAD because it was dirt cheap and wanted to see if the bug would catch. It did and I probably would've been better off in inters.
Days 3&4 double date. Downhill from here - bought a dog st Aprilia Mille, hated every second of riding it, the bike had issues, bad buy. Still one of the quickest in inters that day when I did get out but the bike was a hateful piece of crap and missed lots of sessions because of it.
Day 5. Got rid of Aprilia, went to Oulton on my new ZX6RR, stuck in novice as booked late... more teething problems, discovered suspension needed rebuilding and bike wasn't behaving as such...nothing learned. Put the ill handling down to the suspension and fired the bike off for full suspension rebuild/check over - nothing else found.
Day 6. Novice again, booked too late, went to Snetterton expecting the bike to be sorted, it wasn't. After a lot of head scratching and searching with the guys, especially Fleegle, he noticed that the wheel bearings were fked. Learned fk all again, somewhat annoyed/embarrassed I hadn't found this sooner & the fella I sent the bike to hadn't either.
I think I've literally had one good successful track day on that old SRAD. I don't regret selling it as it was just bought as a means to have a go on my own bike as I always had it in my head on Simon's that I was riding someone elses bike. But fk me, I haven't half paid the price for swapping and changing about. I guess the point I'm making that taking your time and familiarising yourself is no bad thing rather than rushing to be somewhere, as you can quickly undo all your hard work. Regaining lost confidence is like starting from scratch.
Day 7. Will be back to Oulton in Inters with a sorted bike and a softly softly catchee monkey approach for the morning to get back into it.
Day 1. Novice - Loons old R1, bit of a taster
Day 2. Novice - Bought an old SRAD because it was dirt cheap and wanted to see if the bug would catch. It did and I probably would've been better off in inters.
Days 3&4 double date. Downhill from here - bought a dog s
t Aprilia Mille, hated every second of riding it, the bike had issues, bad buy. Still one of the quickest in inters that day when I did get out but the bike was a hateful piece of crap and missed lots of sessions because of it. Day 5. Got rid of Aprilia, went to Oulton on my new ZX6RR, stuck in novice as booked late... more teething problems, discovered suspension needed rebuilding and bike wasn't behaving as such...nothing learned. Put the ill handling down to the suspension and fired the bike off for full suspension rebuild/check over - nothing else found.
Day 6. Novice again, booked too late, went to Snetterton expecting the bike to be sorted, it wasn't. After a lot of head scratching and searching with the guys, especially Fleegle, he noticed that the wheel bearings were f
ked. Learned fk all again, somewhat annoyed/embarrassed I hadn't found this sooner & the fella I sent the bike to hadn't either. I think I've literally had one good successful track day on that old SRAD. I don't regret selling it as it was just bought as a means to have a go on my own bike as I always had it in my head on Simon's that I was riding someone elses bike. But f
k me, I haven't half paid the price for swapping and changing about. I guess the point I'm making that taking your time and familiarising yourself is no bad thing rather than rushing to be somewhere, as you can quickly undo all your hard work. Regaining lost confidence is like starting from scratch. Day 7. Will be back to Oulton in Inters with a sorted bike and a softly softly catchee monkey approach for the morning to get back into it.
Edited by Yazza54 on Tuesday 2nd June 11:36
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