the bb trackday thread.
Discussion
Biker's Nemesis said:
McKean was showing me his stuff on the laptop today and I was fascinating for me, I was that impressed I was going to get on of them thingy's you and him have right up until he told me it doesn't work on a Fireblade unless you have a race ECU or Nemesis TC thing.
Sadly Honda use a completely closed and undecipherable CAN bus on their bikes. Biker's Nemesis said:
I know he'll read this and not reply but the daft f
ker is wasted just doing TD's, he really is FAF. (fast as fk)
I fkn hate him.
(no I don't, he's way too nice to hate)
The wker
He'd be even quicker with a couple of changes to the setup. ker is wasted just doing TD's, he really is FAF. (fast as fk)I fkn hate him.
(no I don't, he's way too nice to hate)
The w
kerAnd yes, he is FAF!
Edited by bass gt3 on Wednesday 24th June 23:24
For me the lap times are a gauge of improvement, how else do you know you have gone quicker if you don't time it? That said, I don't have a lap timer, I video the session then watch it back and see what times I get. That way I don't get caught up in it and don't chase times as that would just end up in crashing a lot. The advantage with the video is that I can watch it back and then learn where I can improve.
Out of interest what are you guys doing at Cadwell? After watching a lot of videos learning the track I went with the expectation of doing between 1:50 to 1:55 as that seemed to be most common from the fast/inters group videos. After watching my videos I was doing consistent 1:45-1:48's and got a 1:44.9 in mid way through the afternoon which I was well pleased with given I've never been before.
Out of interest what are you guys doing at Cadwell? After watching a lot of videos learning the track I went with the expectation of doing between 1:50 to 1:55 as that seemed to be most common from the fast/inters group videos. After watching my videos I was doing consistent 1:45-1:48's and got a 1:44.9 in mid way through the afternoon which I was well pleased with given I've never been before.
Biker's Nemesis said:
bass gt3 said:
Sadly Honda use a completely closed and undecipherable CAN bus on their bikes.
That sort of stuff would interest me rather than a lap timer.Although with Aim stuff, it can be moved from bike to bike so you're set for years
bass gt3 said:
It's the main PITA with Hondas. To get useful data costs a lot as it needs to be analogue sensors which starts getting $$$$$.
Although with Aim stuff, it can be moved from bike to bike so you're set for years
Sorry for being dumb steve but you will have to explain stuff like that to me in baby steps.Although with Aim stuff, it can be moved from bike to bike so you're set for years
My question is what would I have to do to get that sort of information? (as cheap as possible)
The way to think about Data logging isn't to measure absolute lap times, as these just don't tell the whole story. Notonce you're going at a good pace.
Good data can tell you not what you're doing but what you're losing, where you're loosing it and how consistent you are. It can help optimise the bike for a given track from gearing as a minimum to suspension if you have the sensors. So rather than fumbling around trying to establish a set up, you can do a couple of sessions and really start to zero in.
For example, Neils' gearing is far from ideal at Croft. Too many needless gear changes which could be fixed by calculating the optimal final drive. Everything is a compromise but it can get you damn close.
I'm a far better engineer than rider
Good data can tell you not what you're doing but what you're losing, where you're loosing it and how consistent you are. It can help optimise the bike for a given track from gearing as a minimum to suspension if you have the sensors. So rather than fumbling around trying to establish a set up, you can do a couple of sessions and really start to zero in.
For example, Neils' gearing is far from ideal at Croft. Too many needless gear changes which could be fixed by calculating the optimal final drive. Everything is a compromise but it can get you damn close.
I'm a far better engineer than rider
Biker's Nemesis said:
No Steve, just the ABS sensors which are on the standard wheels which are in my loft, I am running Dymags. Will I need wheel speed sensors?
More info is better 
But sensors can be set up to read disc bolts or similar so not necessary to fit the OEM tone rings. You can buy cheap Hall Effect sensors and make a simple bracket to mount them.Given it's a Blade, it's be nice to have front speed, rear speed, rpm, gear position ( if it's the later model you should be able to pickup the 5vdc line from the sensor easily enough.
With the accurate GPS and these we could get a ton of info as the gyro and accelerometers are very good. Have a look at the Aim Evo 4 unit. It takes 5 analogue inputs, 2 wheel speed, includes a GPS sensor and can be connected to a CANbus system if you change bikes later in life. Doesn't have a display (can be added) but will obviously provide all the data you need to be useful
But are you going to keep the Blade for long?? If you are going to change I'd say wait and get the Solo DL if it's compatible with the new bike..
Edited by bass gt3 on Wednesday 24th June 23:16
Prof Prolapse said:
Loon, you're a man of your word and I'm happy to concede I was wrong (for now at least!).
Gwm, you're a terrible guinea pig.
Put this in here since it's the main convo thread. Gwm, you're a terrible guinea pig.
I think it was a pretty fair test. I'm not a complete Novice but middle of the pack Novice group. I knew the track and (roughly) what I was letting myself in for with riding something like a tricked RR. My first lap on it was tentative at best, I reckon I could beat my 600 time with more track time on it - but that's not what the bet was about.
mckeann said I should give some thoughts on the RR. For reference, I've had shots on plenty of middle of the range bikes, but never something as powerful as the RR. It was in Sport mode when I went out, so I had full power but TC and anti-wheelie settings were high.
Initial impressions - very comfortable, turns in very quick (without that feeling of "falling in"); and very stable. To be honest, at first when I was taking it (mega) easy it felt like a docile pussy cat.
At first I was rolling around in 2nd, coasting a lot and only using minimal braking to get a feel for it. As I picked up pace (relative...), I was trying to accelerate harder (rather than short shifting and using <50% throttle) and brake later. The brakes especially were brilliant, really sharp with a nice progressive "bite" as you squeezed harder. By far my favourite thing, and something I'm glad is on my road R. In the Novice group anyway, diving harder on the brakes past folk was one of the easier ways I found to pass people when I couldn't catch them through a corner or powering out.
But here comes the who crux of the argument - the power. Only at 2 points at OP was I ever pinning the throttle (and probably then not even 100%) - along The Avenue (straightest bit of the track) and after Druids going under the bridge. Each time the front was lifting FAST and the anti-wheelie was cutting in. The first time it happened I knew it was coming but when it's someone else's bike and you're not used to it - I puckered! Funny but it felt better/more "safe" than on mine, I'd guess due to the suspension being firmer/better. Though OP probably isn't the easiest to get used to a bike so flighty due to all the bumps. It takes real confidence to let the front go light while accelerating, still banked over and the next corner less than 100m away.
mkeann warned me that if I just went for it out the gate that things would happen so much faster I wouldn't react fast enough or panic and crash. While I never went fast enough for it to be an issue, I see what he means. The speed you have to brake/accelerate/move your bum/change gear/ etc when "on it" is a gulf from my pace. The only time I felt I made any mistake in the short session was when I outbraked myself once at Druids; squeezed a bit hard while leaning over, straightened up and went way wide. No drama, but checked my ego a bit.
Personal opinion - no Novice rider has the experience or confidence to make use of the extra power. Fast guys don't really lean on the electronic aids, so a Novice rider is never going to either. If you are fast enough to manhandle a 1000cc sportsbike around a circuit, making use of the extra 70bhp over a 600cc machine, you will be far exceeding any novice group.
Basically - the extra power is wasted on a Novice and only makes it harder to get your acceleration right. Plus point was I went (felt) faster on my 600, as it felt so soft and under powered afterwards
Also, you've never seen someone as nervous as Loon when I set off!
And apologies for hammering it into 2nd and relying on the slipper clutch - though it didn't even squirm so I took the "chirp" as a good sign! Totally want one now 
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