the bb trackday thread.

[snorky782]

Confidence is a tricky thing, I've really suffered over the last 18 months for no reason at all. I'm not sure buying another bike will solve your problem though. You need to try to test yourself with the gears and sometimes dropping back a group can help, as you're not as nervous as the other riders are slower than you.

[Biker's Nemesis]

Yep, without Confidence you're wasting your time on track, when I separated my hip from my thigh in 2012 I couldn't/wouldn't push on track at all.. Just takes time, unless you're a pro racer making a living at it then so what, just re build your confidence slowly.

[Tim85]

maybe get a cheap 600 for track days. 1-2 grand will get you something semi 'decent' fuel injected 01-04 with all the track bits already on. Yeah its not going to be your pride and joy but the worry about binning it isnt there and you can keep your rc8 mint for the road or for later once youve built up more track confidence. With 100/110 hp and a 600s delivery the chances of high siding due to too much throttle are massively reduced if non existent unless in 1st or your really hamfisted. You still see older 600s in fast group with confident riders so its not like you'll be a rolling road block and after jumping off your rc8 the 600 will feel like a toy and not intimidating at all. Plus parts if you do have an off will be pennies compared to any of the ktm bits. Just another idea.

[moanthebairns]

At Knockhill and it's like a bsb test day

Chrissy rouse
Nei motorsport
Pr racing

To name but a few..

I would not like to be an orange bib novice in the open pit lane day today. No way.

[curlie467]

Hehe, enjoy and show them how it's done!

[mckeann]

jackh707 said:

1 - I always find myself short shifting to the gear above coming out of corners as Im paranoid of high siding, and then getting passed accelerating out of corners because I am in the wrong gear.


2 - I also find it hard work turning it when dropping the tyres down to track day pressures. I am using M7RRs which are better tyres than I am.


3 - Ive had confidence issues since I binned it at oulton last year on a different bike.

Its not an easy bike to ride at the best of times, but I love to to bits.

Point 1. The closer you are to the rev limiter, the less likely you are to high side. I find that it's peak torque rather than peak power which upsets the rear tyre the most. Plus, if it does spin and you're in a lower gear, it will hit the limiter sooner which acts like a very crude form of TC.

Point 2. Drop the rear pressure a lot on track, but with the front keep it up nearer 33-35 hot. Lots of people drop it to 30 hot and it makes turning much heavier.

Point 3. It just takes time. Do you know why you crashed??? Once I work out why I crash, I'm generally happy to push again and not do whatever caused the crash. To the weird unknown ones that mess with my head

[MotorsportTom]

mckeann said:

Point 3. It just takes time. Do you know why you crashed??? Once I work out why I crash, I'm generally happy to push again and not do whatever caused the crash. To the weird unknown ones that mess with my head

Best point for my limited experience.

A crash not long back I can't 100% pin down why my highside happened and I haven't been pushing as much since albeit on the road.

I'll see how I get on at Pembrey tomorrow.

Also ref the pressures, any idea of a rough guide for dropping pressures of temp vs pressure or if it's a damp circuit? Or is it a case of just try and see how it feels?

I'd rather have an idea of where to start from

[jackh707]

Thanks, some good advice from everyone.

I'll take on board the tyre front tyre pressure thing, its likely I am dropping it a little too much. And the revs/gearing, Ill try using the right gear again.

Ive been eyeing up cbr600s on ebay overnight and I think it may be the way to go.

Confidence is related to binning at outlton. I lost the back end. I was getting faster and faster all day brimming with confidence and went for a big fast overtake at Island round the outside of someone who was reasonably quick. It was early in the season cold and damp in places and I simply asked too much from the tyres. Rear shot out, bucked me out of the seat. Caught it, back on the bike but by that time going wide at around 100 onto damp grass. Kept it upright for 30 yards before it went down. I tumbled for a while, bike slid a LONG way. I was absolutely fine no injuries but just pissed off at myself.

[snorky782]

I think there's a key point here. You're blaming the tyres as you "asked too much of them". You didn't. You asked too much of yourself. To have any chance of learning from a crash you have to look at yourself fairly critically.

I left the track at Island flat out in 4th gear last year. It was because I did something wrong, not the bike and certainly not the tyre.

Chances are that you tried the overtake, glanced right thinking "Ooooo that's a bit close" and headed straight where you were looking.

That needs to be your starting point on regaining your confidence

[moto_traxport]

snorky782 said:

I think there's a key point here. You're blaming the tyres as you "asked too much of them". You didn't. You asked too much of yourself. To have any chance of learning from a crash you have to look at yourself fairly critically.

I left the track at Island flat out in 4th gear last year. It was because I did something wrong, not the bike and certainly not the tyre.

Chances are that you tried the overtake, glanced right thinking "Ooooo that's a bit close" and headed straight where you were looking.

That needs to be your starting point on regaining your confidence

I think you can ask too much of the tyres. I'm guessing you're thinking that a racer might get round the corner at, let's say 70mph and our track day chap managed to crash at 60mph (all other things being equal) then it's not the tyres.

Corner entry speed, cornering angle, throttle input, weight distribution all are going to be different but if you totter in there at 45mph, put it on it's ear and pin the throttle at the same time you will still manage to crash and I would still term it as asking too much of the tyres - you've just done it at a lower speed due to your inputs.

[jackh707]

It was the tyres for the conditions. One of those conditions was me riding too fast.

They were original Pirelli diablos on an old fireblade, conditions: fairly cold with damp patches.

At snorkle; I don't know why you are trying to tell me how I crashed. It wasn't a question.
I posted how I came off above.

An astute person would correlate my discussion about my current fear of high-siding with that of the mechanism of my crash, losing the back end.

It's losing the back end I am having confidence issues with, not going wide.

Thanks for the input.

[snorky782]

jackh707 said:

It was the tyres for the conditions. One of those conditions was me riding too fast.

They were original Pirelli diablos on an old fireblade, conditions: fairly cold with damp patches.

At snorkle; I don't know why you are trying to tell me how I crashed. It wasn't a question.
I posted how I came off above.

An astute person would correlate my discussion about my current fear of high-siding with that of the mechanism of my crash, losing the back end.

It's losing the back end I am having confidence issues with, not going wide.

Thanks for the input.

You've completely missed my point.

You need to understand your crash and why it happened. It's highly unlikely that it was anything other than your input. That's not me having a go at you, it's me trying to help you. Buying a 600cc bike or a cheaper one won't remove your current anxiety about losing the rear.

I know, I've had serious problems with exactly that over the past year and the only way I've got over it is analysing prior issues and realising its me and not the bike, followed by starting to push a bit more each time and realising I'm not going to the moon.

[jackh707]

snorky782 said:

You've completely missed my point.

You need to understand your crash and why it happened. It's highly unlikely that it was anything other than your input. That's not me having a go at you, it's me trying to help you. Buying a 600cc bike or a cheaper one won't remove your current anxiety about losing the rear.

I know, I've had serious problems with exactly that over the past year and the only way I've got over it is analysing prior issues and realising its me and not the bike, followed by starting to push a bit more each time and realising I'm not going to the moon.

I haven't missed your point, my input was going too fast and asking too much from the rear, Ultimately I lost rear tyre adhesion/grip. I know what happened I am happy with it. I'm not going to write 1000 words on here as to exactly why I know the rear kicked out under too much power/not enough grip but that's what happened.

I do appreciate what you are saying though.
The reason I am afraid of crashing is damaging what is a very nice bike, I don't like damaging nice things.

A Japanese bike with track fairings that isn't cosmetically immaculate and dosnt have so much perosnal value is perfect for me. Removing the fear of damaging something precious would be removing my biggest barrier to riding harder on track.

[mckeann]

If you can stretch to 4K, my friend is selling up and has an 07 cbr600 Trackbike, with V5, and everything else you need for track use, warmers, genny, stands etc

[mckeann]

I can vouch for this bike. Infact, there's some videos of me riding it on my Vimeo account

http://www.motoforum.net/topic/122242-honda-cbr600...

[snorky782]

jackh707 said:

I haven't missed your point, my input was going too fast and asking too much from the rear, Ultimately I lost rear tyre adhesion/grip. I know what happened I am happy with it. I'm not going to write 1000 words on here as to exactly why I know the rear kicked out under too much power/not enough grip but that's what happened.

I do appreciate what you are saying though.
The reason I am afraid of crashing is damaging what is a very nice bike, I don't like damaging nice things.

A Japanese bike with track fairings that isn't cosmetically immaculate and dosnt have so much perosnal value is perfect for me. Removing the fear of damaging something precious would be removing my biggest barrier to riding harder on track.

What value do you place on yourself? You're probably more valuable than any bike you could rodeo N track and crashing on any bike can hurt. That's likely to be in your mind too.

[roboR]

Just got back from Jerez. My transport pulled out last minute, and as I'd booked and had a load of other mates going up I decided to drive up from Gibraltar.

Bloody miserable. The day was great but SO hot. Was mid 30's all day which kinda sucks to do a track day in, was sweating buckets.

Then the drive back and my main fuse blew. Luckily had the spare, but it's melted half the box and socket things for it to go in, so going to have to replace that.

No idea of times as I wasn't receiving their emails. But I FELT a lot faster. I saw (on their own paper leaderboard thing they use to move people up and down) that I did a 2:26.01 on the first session (which makes it my best so far anyways) and that session felt really slow compared to the later ones, so hopefully gone under 2:20's. Either way, a lovely day and I'm going to sleep like a baby

[gwm]

Brakes question:

My 2003 GSX-R 600 has the 750 forks and calipers from a K7. I've never liked the brake feel so over the winter rebuilt the calipers with new seals, fitted a Brembo RCS 19 master cylinder and filled it with Silkolene Pro Race brake fluid. There was already braided lines fitted. I have bleed it thoroughly and done the cable tie trick.

BUT, the lever still doesn't feel so firm and you still have that "flex" when pulling hard. Obviously I'm comparing to my BMW that has the Brembo calipers but that feels sharp and goes rock solid after a couple of squeezes.

What am I missing here?

[hebegb]

gwm said:

Brakes question:

My 2003 GSX-R 600 has the 750 forks and calipers from a K7. I've never liked the brake feel so over the winter rebuilt the calipers with new seals, fitted a Brembo RCS 19 master cylinder and filled it with Silkolene Pro Race brake fluid. There was already braided lines fitted. I have bleed it thoroughly and done the cable tie trick.

BUT, the lever still doesn't feel so firm and you still have that "flex" when pulling hard. Obviously I'm comparing to my BMW that has the Brembo calipers but that feels sharp and goes rock solid after a couple of squeezes.

What am I missing here?

I know others will have more to add and offer , but have you bled both at the calipers and then at the master cylinder too...? ( what Yazza did for mine when i had introduced air into the lines having changed pads and done a thorough piston cleanup) it sorted them right out.

[curlie467]

You might be missing nothing and it is the nature of the beast.
My CBR600rr has brakes that feel like you describe and it is just how they are, I actually prefer that kind of feel anyway.


I am a big fan of back bleeding however and do it on any motorbikes or push bikes, you basically force the fluid upwards with a full syringe attached to the caliper nipple, crack open the nipple (after taking the master cylinder cap off or undo thebleed screw/nipple/widget) and plunge the syringe (or however you use a syringe haha). Keep an eye on the master cylinder to watch for any air coming up into the cylinder or out of the bleed nipple (attach a tube to see this easier).

Might be worth a try, are you planning a trip to Oulton? Be good to catch up.