Sussex to London commute - good idea/bad idea?

Sussex to London commute - good idea/bad idea?

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Sidewindow

Original Poster:

300 posts

222 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
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I'm sure this has been asked before, i've tried a search but no real luck so hope someone can offer some sensible advice!

I have taken a job in the city (Liverpool Street) and live in Horsham, West Sussex, about 40 miles away. My options are to commute by train, with a connection en route and a 20 minute walk the other end; the cost for this is approx £315 per month and 1.5 hours each way, or go by bike which I estimate would take an hour each way.

One slight issue is that I don't currently have a bike licence! I have ridden a few small bikes and did my CBT a few years ago which has now expired. This is something I can fix and hopefully achieve fairly quickly. I have a feeling I would really enjoy commuting this way rather than by train, although appreciate it is dangerous and no doubt unpleasant in winter.

If this isn't a stupid idea, what might I budget for a suitable used bike (I'm assuming it would need to be at least 250cc), and gear, fuel, maintenance, servicing etc? How much does it cost to park a bike in London how easy is it to find a space?

Thanks!


rev-erend

21,404 posts

283 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
Hi - I used to commute from East Grinstead to Fleet Street which if my failing memory servers me was 30 miles and generally took 1 hour or about 1hr 15mins in the winter and I did it on a ZXR 750 two up and later on a Yamaha 600 diversion but that was not as much fun.

All months were ok except the worst of the winter where lots of rain and cold made it a real chore.

Tyres, punctures, chains and servicing all happen very regularly.

You mentioned you don't have a licence - well London is not the place to learn to ride. It is aggressive and unforgiving. You see big accidents regularly and need to have very good riding skills, knowing where to be, where not to be and sometimes the reactions of a cat.

In short and to be brutally honest - I would not recommend it to a novice.

Sidewindow

Original Poster:

300 posts

222 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
Thanks for your advice Rev which I take on board. I used to cycle to work in central London and so can understand what you mean, the roads are unforgiving and there's not a lot of space. This is something that worried me, needing a large enough bike to handle the distance but then having to navigate it through difficult and tight traffic. I assume that riding defensively is the only way and even then you still have a high chance of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

When you commuted from East Grinstead, how did you cope with punctures and breakdowns, were they really that frequent?

Thanks again

spareparts

6,777 posts

226 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
quotequote all
rev-erend said:
You mentioned you don't have a licence - well London is not the place to learn to ride. It is aggressive and unforgiving. You see big accidents regularly and need to have very good riding skills, knowing where to be, where not to be and sometimes the reactions of a cat.
Sounds like the perfect place to learn how to ride! If you can ride in London, you can ride anywhere.
I've seen lots of people who normally ride out in the sticks, and when they ride into London they haven't got a clue! They hold up traffic, don't filter or they block filtering lanes, generally dawdle, hesitate and leave their bikes prone. They are accidents waiting to happen.
This is not just about bikes, but also cars.

But for a brand new rider, I would agree that the ride from Sussex to Liverpool St is a long ride to be doing it both ways - it will be tough for a while, but not impossible. Just be prepared to crash and you'll be fine.

smack

9,727 posts

190 months

Wednesday 4th March 2015
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spareparts said:
Just be prepared to crash and you'll be fine.
hehe

What the other guys have said it right. But if you have cycled in London loads, you should already know how to reaction and ride in that madhouse.

thatdude

2,654 posts

126 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
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It's alright until you get into london. It's then just about ok if you have your wits about you and you are prepared to back off for the sake of getting to work a minute earlier but at least arriving to work (same goes for coming home!)

Nice days are enjoyable. Hot days in the summer can be horrible.

Wet days are miserable

cold days are slightly less miserable providing you have the kit

cold, wet days will make you wish you could work from home or didnt have to travel by motorbike.

Bear in mind that most motorcycles have servicing intervals of 4000 - 6000 miles. Also bear in mind tyres generally need changing sooner, chain and sprockets need changing on average every 20,000 miles (possible to get more from them!) and things like brake calipers need regular servicing in order to keep them from sticking (they are very exposed). You will be stopping for fuel every other day (probably) and you might want a change of clothes (especially in the winter if you wear a few layers underneath textiles...i totally recommend textile gear with removable thermal lining)

I had a similar distance commute in my old job, and when it was a ncie day I liked riding. but it was easier to take the car on many days (which added time to my journey but there was less physical exertion getting to work so when i got there i was raring to go)


I say this: get your motorcycle lisence, get yourself a motorcycle, and have it there as an option - especially when its milder weather. Riding in london, as others have said, is quite the baptism of fire for someone with little experieince. You need to build up your confidence of slow control and stuff. Do it, but take it easy!

crofty1984

15,830 posts

203 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
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If it's any help, I commute 32 miles each way by bike, about 80% dual carriageway/a-road. I think it's quite nice. Wakes you up in the morning because you have to concentrate more on what you're doing and you're in the elements. Then you can de-stress on the way home. Plus the traffic on the Acle straight is wk so it's nice to overtake everyone instead of being sat in a queue. Not as much fun in the rain, but that goes without saying.

I use a Honda NC700X because:
It's a proper bike as opposed to a Maxi scooter
It does 80mpg day in, day out
Has a neat little storage trunk where the tank should be you can fit a full-face helmet in
Comfy, upright riding position
I like the engine

Some people don't like the engine so you need to ride one to see if it's for you. It's a long-stroke, low revving parallel twin. It tops out at 106mph but has plenty of oomph to get you there, especially if you ride it properly.

Full Disclosure - I've wimped out and used the car for the last month or so, but back on it now and regret leaving it so long. smile

One thing I will say is heated grips make any commute 1000% nicer on a cold day.

Prof Prolapse

16,160 posts

189 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
spareparts said:
They hold up traffic, don't filter or they block filtering lanes, generally dawdle, hesitate and leave their bikes prone. They are accidents waiting to happen.
This is not just about bikes, but also cars.
That sounds like me every time I drive abroad. They're all wrong but me so it's fine. biglaugh

The OP could also get a few practice runs in when it's quiet to build confidence if it's so bad. He doesn't have to do his first run in rush hour.

Schnellmann

1,893 posts

203 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
Think it depends a bit on your job and whether you have regular hours or not. I used to work in London and often finished late and mentally frazzled. No way I coulld have (safely) ridden home. Hated the commute on the train though.

It is possible though as good friend commutted for years from West London into the city and he sometimes worked very late. And he never had a significant crash. Just know I couldn't have done it myself.

Deranged Granny

2,313 posts

167 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
spareparts said:
rev-erend said:
You mentioned you don't have a licence - well London is not the place to learn to ride. It is aggressive and unforgiving. You see big accidents regularly and need to have very good riding skills, knowing where to be, where not to be and sometimes the reactions of a cat.
Sounds like the perfect place to learn how to ride! If you can ride in London, you can ride anywhere.
I've seen lots of people who normally ride out in the sticks, and when they ride into London they haven't got a clue! They hold up traffic, don't filter or they block filtering lanes, generally dawdle, hesitate and leave their bikes prone. They are accidents waiting to happen.
This is not just about bikes, but also cars.

But for a brand new rider, I would agree that the ride from Sussex to Liverpool St is a long ride to be doing it both ways - it will be tough for a while, but not impossible. Just be prepared to crash and you'll be fine.
+1

Your slow speed control will come on leaps and bounds.

Moulder

1,463 posts

211 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
I used to live in Dorking and rode into London occasionally, I am not sure I would expect to do Horsham to Liverpool Street in 60 minutes during rush hour. It is 40-45 miles so this would require you to average 40-45mph over your commute.

I would trial it before committing to doing your tests and buying a bike. As you don't have a bike the simplest way to do this would be drive the route ridiculously early one morning, ideally at the weekend. This should remove the traffic element you would filter past on a bike but still be realistic in terms of traffic lights, etc.

It would also be good to try and get an idea of nearby bike bays if there is no parking at the office. These tend to fill up early and parking is merciless.

If commuting by bike is what you want to do because you like the idea of it the above is not supposed to put you off, but if it is just for saving time it may avoid you being disappointed.

mattfuey

442 posts

137 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
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Just as a note on bike parking, if you go to Finsbury Circus, which is a 2 minute walk from Liverpool Street Station, there's bike parking there - albeit limited.

Not too sure on elsewhere in the immediate area.

Sidewindow

Original Poster:

300 posts

222 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
Thank you for everyone's advice and thoughts, very interesting and much appreciated! I think the consensus is that it's do-able but with a fair few downsides (and some upsides)! I have some time off before I start work so might look into getting my licence anyway, as one poster suggested it then at least gives me the option if I want to start trying bike ownership, getting some miles under my belt and then perhaps trying the commute. I drive up to London a lot and half the time it's painless which is why I have been considering getting a bike, I will drive up early one day to see how long it takes. I'm sure there are people out there that ride into London from much further (I know of someone that rides in from Brighton every day) so it is of course possible but perhaps not the best thing for a brand new rider. I also hadn't considered factors like servicing every 4,000 miles... that would come up every 2.5 months doing 80 miles a day!

Thanks again and any more thoughts are welcome!

CaptainSlow

13,179 posts

211 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
I rode 33 miles into London on my 125 last winter.

I would recommend something like a cbf500; enough power, good on fuel, narrow and upright and not nickable.

SteelerSE

1,885 posts

155 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
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OP - it's also worth noting that more modern bikes have 8-10k servicing intervals and if you get something simple enough then you can easily do that yourself. Just oil and filter. Also my tyres (VFR800) last me at least 6000 miles and more likely 8000.

I've done some commuting into the city, about 35 miles each way, and during the school holidays it was great, I actually quite enjoyed it. When everyone was back at work it was nowhere near as good and added 15-20 minutes of filtering to the journey.

I'm going to go back to it soon because national rail has completely screwed my journey by closing bits of London Bridge for 18 months so it's now a 2 hour journey door to door, a sardine job on the train and a walk from Waterloo to the city (40 mins). The bike is an hour if I leave early enough and 75 mins if I don't.

It's absolutely no fun though - solid concentration for at least half of the journey and then I get to the M3 which is more filtering through roadworks.

London sucks. The job is good but there is no good way of getting here.

SteelerSE

1,885 posts

155 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
CaptainSlow said:
I rode 33 miles into London on my 125 last winter.

I would recommend something like a cbf500; enough power, good on fuel, narrow and upright and not nickable.
Yup. And tank range becomes all important - fill ups become a huge chore, so the less the better.

Sidewindow

Original Poster:

300 posts

222 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
SteelerSE said:
I'm going to go back to it soon because national rail has completely screwed my journey by closing bits of London Bridge for 18 months so it's now a 2 hour journey door to door, a sardine job on the train and a walk from Waterloo to the city (40 mins). The bike is an hour if I leave early enough and 75 mins if I don't.
.......
London sucks. The job is good but there is no good way of getting here.
Well my train journey would be Horsham to London Bridge with a change at Three Bridges or East Croydon (haven't fully researched it yet). London Bridge seems to be working okay while they do the improvement work or have I missed something critical? Wondering how it has affected your journey so badly? And why walk from Waterloo when you could take the Waterloo & City line (unless you like walking)!

Good to hear there are some bikes out there that offer much longer service intervals etc. and tank range would be pretty important!

Renn Sport

2,761 posts

208 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
I think that it’s a fair old journey and one that you should ease yourself into. I would say get your licence and get some miles under your belt. See how confident you feel and if you can tackle the route.

I would suggest doing your DAS and getting a starter bike like a Honda CBR600F from the early 2000’s and see how you feel riding it. Also you could attempt a few jaunts into town on the weekend to recon the terrain.

I used to work with a chap who used to come to work in Southwark from Portsmouth each day on his CBR600F. Its realistically cheap, with decent wind protection and not the most sought after motorcycle in London. Which is something to consider if you are leaving your bike in the public bays. Many workplaces allow bikes to park inside the secure parking areas, which is handy.

However talking about bike desirability, even if you buy an older bike make sure it’s up to scratch in terms of service items and tyres. You don’t need unreliability and or crap tyres messing your head up.

You could also do what I do and only commute by bike on certain days to break up the weekly commute. That way you stay fresh and enjoy the odd commute by bike and sometimes come in by train. Just a thought.

HiFiHunter

99 posts

144 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
London a bad place to learn to ride? Pah, sorted me out fine. Had also previously cycled in the centre, but with no motorcycle experience, I spent 6 weeks doing CBT, Theory and DAS, then picked up a cheap Yamaha Fazer 600 and started commuting from Dagenham to London bridge everyday. A little trial by fire, but I've learnt a lot. Obviously, for the first few months I wasn't filtering much, just building confidence etc. Of course I had a few offs, doesn't every newbie? Many were the fault of others lane twitching though.

Anyway, a commute from Horsham will be further, certainly doable, but in under an hour, you'd be pushing it. I'd expect at least 1.5hrs, especially for first 6 months.

From my experience the plus points are:-
No messing about with tube, train, buses, other commuters, sardine can carriages, delays, strikes etc.
On a bike, you can always keep moving and feel in control, so no matter how bad the traffic gets, so psychologically it's never as demoralising.
You've got a bike to have some fun on at weekends. Or even on nice summer evenings after work.
There's a good social scene, always ride outs to do etc.
Within London, the weather never really gets super bad. I ride all year round and in last 2.5 years only had 1 day when I've had to leave bike at home.


Negative points:-
By the time you've factored in your clothing (and wear'n'tear of), necessary security, camera for insurance, on going bike maintenance (tyres, chain, servicing, mot etc), plus general fixing stuff up after drops and the inevitable addiction to buying better gear - it really isn't much cheaper than a season ticket.
You will have some off's. Some might hurt. But many will likely be at low speed.
Riding in crappy weather isn't fun, and needs more gear to make it bearable.
Do bear in mind you'll spend 5-10mins at each end of a journey changing in/out of your gear and locking/unlocking you bike.
Bike theft is a big issue in London.
I do miss having chance to read book etc on my commute.


Parking wise: almost all bays on the street are free (expect Westminster - £1/day). Many multistories are free - often a better and more secure option.
Remember the Square mile is now a 20mph zone.
There's no congestion charge for bikes, but bear in mind the proposed UltraLow Emission zone that may come in in 2020, when choosing a bike.



okgo

37,859 posts

197 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
rev-erend said:
Hi - I used to commute from East Grinstead to Fleet Street which if my failing memory servers me was 30 miles and generally took 1 hour or about 1hr 15mins in the winter and I did it on a ZXR 750 two up and later on a Yamaha 600 diversion but that was not as much fun.

All months were ok except the worst of the winter where lots of rain and cold made it a real chore.

Tyres, punctures, chains and servicing all happen very regularly.

You mentioned you don't have a licence - well London is not the place to learn to ride. It is aggressive and unforgiving. You see big accidents regularly and need to have very good riding skills, knowing where to be, where not to be and sometimes the reactions of a cat.

In short and to be brutally honest - I would not recommend it to a novice.
Meanwhile thousands of people, women, foreigners, etc etc commute by scooter seemingly without issue on a daily basis. I don't think its as bad as you make out Rev..