Can I make my bike older?

Can I make my bike older?

Author
Discussion

londonbabe

Original Poster:

2,044 posts

192 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
quotequote all
I have a scooter that was imported and given an abitrary reg date ('declared first used' I believe) of 1984. (The thing was picked up from a scrapyard in Italy, and at some point in its life the frame number had been mucked about with.)

I found that one feature of my frame is only found on earlier bikes, and wondered if I can get it re-registered with a 70s plate on the strength of that one feature, or whether I shouldn't poke the Swansea bear and risk them asking awkward questions about the serial no. What do you think?

Tall_Paul

1,915 posts

227 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
quotequote all
Pretty sure you can just buy a private plate, you can't make a vehicle appear newer so you're fine.

"Conditions for assigning a personalised registration number

You can’t:

put a personalised registration number onto a vehicle displaying a ‘Q’ number plate
make the vehicle look newer than it actually is"

Edited by Tall_Paul on Saturday 28th March 22:17

Dog Star

16,131 posts

168 months

Sunday 29th March 2015
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As long as you make it older, yes. I've just assigned a 1930s XXX123 style plate to my MV F4

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Sunday 29th March 2015
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londonbabe said:
I have a scooter that was imported and given an abitrary reg date ('declared first used' I believe) of 1984. (The thing was picked up from a scrapyard in Italy, and at some point in its life the frame number had been mucked about with.)

I found that one feature of my frame is only found on earlier bikes, and wondered if I can get it re-registered with a 70s plate on the strength of that one feature, or whether I shouldn't poke the Swansea bear and risk them asking awkward questions about the serial no. What do you think?
It won't be an "arbitrary" date - whoever imported it will have provided paperwork "proving" the age, either Italian registration docs or some kind of club-issued ageing certificate, almost certainly tying in with the VIN on it.

Point out that the apparent age doesn't fit the VIN, and you're saying "Give me a Q plate, because the age can't be determined."

srob

11,599 posts

238 months

Sunday 29th March 2015
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TooMany2cvs said:
It won't be an "arbitrary" date - whoever imported it will have provided paperwork "proving" the age, either Italian registration docs or some kind of club-issued ageing certificate, almost certainly tying in with the VIN on it.

Point out that the apparent age doesn't fit the VIN, and you're saying "Give me a Q plate, because the age can't be determined."
I don't see why you'd get a Q plate.

If you wrote to the DVLA and enclosed a relevant dating certificate from an owners club or whoever, stating that an error was made when originally dating it, they'd just change it I'd have thought.


fubar69

125 posts

159 months

Sunday 29th March 2015
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I've got a private 56 plate on my 2010 street triple because it's my dad's year of birth. You can make a vehicle look older with a private reg but can't make it look newer. I.e a 2010 plate on an 06 bike.
Some normal plates that don't spell words, names etc are actually quite reasonably priced.

fubar69

125 posts

159 months

Sunday 29th March 2015
quotequote all
I've got a private 56 plate on my 2010 street triple because it's my dad's year of birth. You can make a vehicle look older with a private reg but can't make it look newer. I.e a 2010 plate on an 06 bike.
Some normal plates that don't spell words, names etc are actually quite reasonably priced.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

177 months

Sunday 29th March 2015
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He doesn't just want a private plate. He wants the full thing logged and registered as a 70s bike. Probably got a lot to do with one decade being sought after and fetching good resale values whereas the 80s ones are a pile of poo and worth as much as a used condom.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Sunday 29th March 2015
quotequote all
srob said:
I don't see why you'd get a Q plate.
Because the vehicle's original identity, therefore date, is indeterminate.

srob said:
If you wrote to the DVLA and enclosed a relevant dating certificate from an owners club or whoever, stating that an error was made when originally dating it, they'd just change it I'd have thought.
Perhaps you missed that the VIN's been "mucked about with" (in other words, the VIN doesn't fit the bike - it's a ringer)?

LoonR1 said:
He doesn't just want a private plate. He wants the full thing logged and registered as a 70s bike. Probably got a lot to do with one decade being sought after and fetching good resale values whereas the 80s ones are a pile of poo and worth as much as a used condom.
Historic Vehicle, more like - especially since the London ULEZ has just been confirmed, with all "historic" being exempt. IF it's kept as rolling-40, then this scooter won't be historic until 1984, but if the "real" age is prior to 1980, the ULEZ won't be an issue... If it's pre-75, then it's tax free now, and there's no risk of the rolling age cutoff being fixed (again).

Edited by TooMany2cvs on Sunday 29th March 12:52

srob

11,599 posts

238 months

Sunday 29th March 2015
quotequote all
You're quite right, not sure how but I did miss the bit about the tampered with VIN, apologies!

That does put a slightly more awkward slant on things hehe

londonbabe

Original Poster:

2,044 posts

192 months

Monday 30th March 2015
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TooMany2cvs said:
Historic Vehicle, more like - especially since the London ULEZ has just been confirmed, with all "historic" being exempt. IF it's kept as rolling-40, then this scooter won't be historic until 1984, but if the "real" age is prior to 1980, the ULEZ won't be an issue... If it's pre-75, then it's tax free now, and there's no risk of the rolling age cutoff being fixed (again).
Got it in one. I think it's pre-78, and I as thinking maybe I could avoid the ULEZ charge.

In only discovered the vin had been 'adjusted' last year, when it was stripped and restored. I've owned it for over 10 years.
Back then a lot of UK companies scoured and picked bare the scrapyards of Italy for rust-free vintage scooters which were nigh-on impossible to re-register in Italy but really easy to register here. Mine is one such example. It's possible that it could have been scrapped by an insurance company, or the Italian police, I suppose.
I certainly don't want a Q plate.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

177 months

Monday 30th March 2015
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It's five years until this charge comes in. Why stray flapping now?

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Monday 30th March 2015
quotequote all
LoonR1 said:
It's five years until this charge comes in. Why stray flapping now?
Because it's in the news.

londonbabe

Original Poster:

2,044 posts

192 months

Monday 30th March 2015
quotequote all
Because I will still own the Vespa in 5 years, and will still want to ride it into central London.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Monday 30th March 2015
quotequote all
londonbabe said:
Because I will still own the Vespa in 5 years, and will still want to ride it into central London.
Even if you did get it recognised as '78, you've got to hope that the next Gov't keep the 40yr historic vehicle cutoff rolling until 2019. I'd guess that as 50/50.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

177 months

Monday 30th March 2015
quotequote all
londonbabe said:
Because I will still own the Vespa in 5 years, and will still want to ride it into central London.
That's what you're aiming to do, rather than will do. There's a lot that can happen in 5 years.

However, what you've got isn't dodgy bike that's worth next to nothing and you're worried about something 5 years from now. It'll cost you peanuts to buy a replacement for it within 5 years that meets the ILEZ anyway.

londonbabe

Original Poster:

2,044 posts

192 months

Monday 30th March 2015
quotequote all
Sentimental value is everything :-)

I think I will let the sleeping dog lie.

srob

11,599 posts

238 months

Monday 30th March 2015
quotequote all
Does the modified frame number tally with the 1984 age it has now?

I'd be tempted to just put a thick coat of paint over it and get an aging cert based on photos of the bike, if you can. If it has a specific element that can only be from a particular era, that may be good enough?!

londonbabe

Original Poster:

2,044 posts

192 months

Monday 30th March 2015
quotequote all
Actually, no. It doesn't. I suspect this sort of thing went on a lot in the early 2000's scooter boom. 'Reputable' dealer just made it all up.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Monday 30th March 2015
quotequote all
srob said:
I'd be tempted to just put a thick coat of paint over it and get an aging cert based on photos of the bike, if you can.
No V765 club signatory would put their signature anywhere near it.