Ssupnsion et up ? Yay or Nay ?
Discussion
bass gt3 said:
moanthebairns said:
before winter weight 10 st 4 (summer weight)
after winter im about 11 st 3 I was 11 st 8 a few months ago. this might sound stupid but I can put on a stone in winter easily, I eat s
t loads when its cold but I have a much reduced appetite when it gets warmer. Don't ask me why.
I was struggling with the street over bumps it was just so firm but since I had my winter padding its much better. As i say im starting to loose weight again, ill be back down to below 11 st in the summer.
Cool,after winter im about 11 st 3 I was 11 st 8 a few months ago. this might sound stupid but I can put on a stone in winter easily, I eat s
t loads when its cold but I have a much reduced appetite when it gets warmer. Don't ask me why. I was struggling with the street over bumps it was just so firm but since I had my winter padding its much better. As i say im starting to loose weight again, ill be back down to below 11 st in the summer.
Well I'd say you're in the range for the standard springs. I presume this is the 675 Daytona?
So take it back basics.
if you have a front stand that picks the headstock up and lets the wheel hang start by measuring the full extension of the front fork. If not, get a couple of helpers to lift the bike by the bars and you measure the amount of shiny bit of fork showing, from fork wiper to fork foot.
Do the same for the rear, measuring vertically from the rear axle to a point on the bodywork. If necessary put a bit of tape on there as a reference point.
Now get your gear on and get on the bike. Now have someone measure to the same points again. Adjust the preload to that you get about 40mm of sag in the front, and 35mm in the rear.
Once the sag is set, and it shouldn't be too hard other than needing a C spanner for the rear, you can set the Comp & Rebound.
Always count from fully closed (clockwise) but don't start setting up until the suspension is warmed up. So go for a 30 minute ride and then start twiddling. There's plenty of advice on YT from Dave Moss about rebound setting. This really is the critical one because if the suspension doesn't return to neutral quickly enough, it will start packing down and massively changing the bikes geometry.
Once that's set right, dial in the comp to your preference, balancing brake dive with bump compliance.
moanthebairns said:
Is 35 for the road cause my street has more play than the track bike the track is as little as an inch
For the road, aim for 40mm give or take in the front and 35mm in the rear.For track you can have a little less but unless you're running hard in A group I wouldn't worry.
If the track bike is running as little as an inch dynamic sag, I'd change that out sharpish. I would suspect the preload iswound well in.
.bass gt3 said:
moanthebairns said:
Is 35 for the road cause my street has more play than the track bike the track is as little as an inch
For the road, aim for 40mm give or take in the front and 35mm in the rear.For track you can have a little less but unless you're running hard in A group I wouldn't worry.
If the track bike is running as little as an inch dynamic sag, I'd change that out sharpish. I would suspect the preload iswound well in.
may I also add that I went to the suspension specialist at croft, with the inch of play, pointed it out to him is this and he said it was spot on?
When you referred to my daytona I thought you knew it was my track bike that's why I got alarmed when you said 35mm.
moanthebairns said:
Right now I'm really confused, unless I have been mistaken and got mixed up. I read several that said there is no magic figure but 25 - 30 mm for track is a good base and then the 35-40 for road, within a 10 mm window so plus 5 or - 5 of the mean.
When you referred to my daytona I thought you knew it was my track bike that's why I got alarmed when you said 35mm.
I'm not sure what bike(s) you're referring to. I know/thought you have a 675, a street 675 and a couple of Kawasakis? What are we talking about here??When you referred to my daytona I thought you knew it was my track bike that's why I got alarmed when you said 35mm.
As for track sag, I wouldn't be going for 25mm, especially adding in the 10mm window. Not sure where you got the 25mm figure from, but unless you're running full race spec suspension, I would suspect you're winding the preloading far too much to achieve this number.
Get the bikes set to 40mm to 50mm Front for road, 35mm to 40mm Front for track, 30mm to 40mm Rear for road and 30mm to 35mm Rear for track if you're using standard suspension components.
For road, a good target is for 1/3rd of the suspension stroke to be taken by the dynamic sag. This lets the suspension follow the contours of the road and maintain grip. Remember that the road has bumps AND dips, so the suspension needs to be able to travel both ways. On track, it can be considered smoother than the average road, so you can reduce sag a bit, but not by much. You still want the front to follow the road under hard acceleration/small wheelie type events.
Edited by bass gt3 on Friday 17th April 13:26
bass gt3 said:
moanthebairns said:
Right now I'm really confused, unless I have been mistaken and got mixed up. I read several that said there is no magic figure but 25 - 30 mm for track is a good base and then the 35-40 for road, within a 10 mm window so plus 5 or - 5 of the mean.
When you referred to my daytona I thought you knew it was my track bike that's why I got alarmed when you said 35mm.
I'm not sure what bike(s) you're referring to. I know/thought you have a 675, a street 675 and a couple of Kawasakis? What are we talking about here??When you referred to my daytona I thought you knew it was my track bike that's why I got alarmed when you said 35mm.
As for track sag, I wouldn't be going for 25mm, especially adding in the 10mm window. Not sure where you got the 25mm figure from, but unless you're running full race spec suspension, I would suspect you're winding the preloading far too much to achieve this number.
Get the bikes setto40 to 50mmFront for road, 35mm to 40mm front for track, 30mm to 40mm rear for road and 25mm to 35mm rear for track if you're using standard suspension components.
For road, a good target is for1/3rd of the suspension stroke to be taken by the dynamic sag. This lets the suspension follow the contours of the road and maintain grip. Remember that the road has bumps AND dips, so the suspension needs to be able to travel both ways. On track, it can be considered smoother than the average road, so you can reduce sag a bit, but not by much. You still want the front to follow the road under hard acceleration/small wheelie type events.
Street R - road
Daytona - track
I've clearly taken the figure from a race setup then.
also my view of a ten mm window, is that its + or - 5 each side of the mean, not as much as 10 plus or minus the figure you want.
I did increase the sag on the Daytona after I was told the 1" was fine by the guy at croft as it never felt correct
moanthebairns said:
Sorry
Street R - road
Daytona - track
I've clearly taken the figure from a race setup then.
also my view of a ten mm window, is that its + or - 5 each side of the mean, not as much as 10 plus or minus the figure you want.
I did increase the sag on the Daytona after I was told the 1" was fine by the guy at croft as it never felt correct
Sorry mate, but you're not making yourself clear. Street R - road
Daytona - track
I've clearly taken the figure from a race setup then.
also my view of a ten mm window, is that its + or - 5 each side of the mean, not as much as 10 plus or minus the figure you want.
I did increase the sag on the Daytona after I was told the 1" was fine by the guy at croft as it never felt correct
What's the 1 inch?? Front? rear? both??
As for the window, nope, don't use it. With your weight, you will have no problems getting the right numbers dialled in. Remember that to get a 25mm sag, you'll have a ton of preload wound in. This is effectively raising the bike up and will change the geometry making the bike feel strange.
As above, set the bike up for track in the 40mm region front, 35mm back. Rebound as fast as possible without double bouncing and comp where you prefer, but start at the midpoint.
Preload is very easy. 1 turnoff the adjuster equals 1mmof preload. So start by taking all the preload out of the front forks and measuring what happens. Then add preload until you get the right number. If you have 125mm of total stroke, you should be looking for 85 to 90mm of shiny slider showing when you're on the bike.
With the rear, measure the sag accurately and dial the preload to get the right number
Edited by bass gt3 on Friday 17th April 13:42
bass gt3 said:
moanthebairns said:
Sorry
Street R - road
Daytona - track
I've clearly taken the figure from a race setup then.
also my view of a ten mm window, is that its + or - 5 each side of the mean, not as much as 10 plus or minus the figure you want.
I did increase the sag on the Daytona after I was told the 1" was fine by the guy at croft as it never felt correct
Sorry mate, but you're not making yourself clear. Street R - road
Daytona - track
I've clearly taken the figure from a race setup then.
also my view of a ten mm window, is that its + or - 5 each side of the mean, not as much as 10 plus or minus the figure you want.
I did increase the sag on the Daytona after I was told the 1" was fine by the guy at croft as it never felt correct
What's the 1 inch?? Front? rear? both??
As for the window, nope, don't use it. With your weight, you will have no problems getting the right numbers dialled in. Remember that to get a 25mm sag, you'll have a ton of preload wound in. This is effectively raising the bike up and will change the geometry making the bike feel strange.
As above, set the bike up for track in the 40mm region front, 35mm back. Rebound as fast as possible without double bouncing and comp where you prefer, but start at the midpoint
I remember where I get 25 mm from now. I was at knockhill and got a hand with it during sessions from a guy who "knew" what he was doing as its impossible yourself. He quoted the 1" figure but it never felt right that's why when I was at croft the week later I queried it with the suspension guy. He mentioned the tolerances of 10mm but as you pointed out it can be spot on with my weight so that could explain why I never got on with it.
But and i cannot stress this enough i went to see the suspension guy at croft and the first thing can you check my sag on the rear as it just doesn't feel right this was after me setting it up at knockhill a week or so before and he sat me on the bike and went that's fine i don't need to measure it i can see it. after this i increased the sag by a few mm and it made the world of a difference, ill need to try and go to the 35mm on the back as you say though.
moanthebairns said:
sorry I was always talking about the rear.
I remember where I get 25 mm from now. I was at knockhill and got a hand with it during sessions from a guy who "knew" what he was doing as its impossible yourself. He quoted the 1" figure but it never felt right that's why when I was at croft the week later I queried it with the suspension guy. He mentioned the tolerances of 10mm but as you pointed out it can be spot on with my weight so that could explain why I never got on with it.
But and i cannot stress this enough i went to see the suspension guy at croft and the first thing can you check my sag on the rear as it just doesn't feel right and he sat me on the bike and went that's fine i don't need to measure it i can see it. after this i increased the sag by a few mm and it made the world of a difference, ill need to try and go to the 35mm on the back as you say though.
Ok, got ya.I remember where I get 25 mm from now. I was at knockhill and got a hand with it during sessions from a guy who "knew" what he was doing as its impossible yourself. He quoted the 1" figure but it never felt right that's why when I was at croft the week later I queried it with the suspension guy. He mentioned the tolerances of 10mm but as you pointed out it can be spot on with my weight so that could explain why I never got on with it.
But and i cannot stress this enough i went to see the suspension guy at croft and the first thing can you check my sag on the rear as it just doesn't feel right and he sat me on the bike and went that's fine i don't need to measure it i can see it. after this i increased the sag by a few mm and it made the world of a difference, ill need to try and go to the 35mm on the back as you say though.
But rather than just focussing on the rear, make sure the numbers are right front AND back. If you get the rear spot on, it might still feel shyte if the front is miles out. You need to establish balance in the bikes suspension, front to rear.
So get the sag set correctly first and foremost
bass gt3 said:
moanthebairns said:
sorry I was always talking about the rear.
I remember where I get 25 mm from now. I was at knockhill and got a hand with it during sessions from a guy who "knew" what he was doing as its impossible yourself. He quoted the 1" figure but it never felt right that's why when I was at croft the week later I queried it with the suspension guy. He mentioned the tolerances of 10mm but as you pointed out it can be spot on with my weight so that could explain why I never got on with it.
But and i cannot stress this enough i went to see the suspension guy at croft and the first thing can you check my sag on the rear as it just doesn't feel right and he sat me on the bike and went that's fine i don't need to measure it i can see it. after this i increased the sag by a few mm and it made the world of a difference, ill need to try and go to the 35mm on the back as you say though.
Ok, got ya.I remember where I get 25 mm from now. I was at knockhill and got a hand with it during sessions from a guy who "knew" what he was doing as its impossible yourself. He quoted the 1" figure but it never felt right that's why when I was at croft the week later I queried it with the suspension guy. He mentioned the tolerances of 10mm but as you pointed out it can be spot on with my weight so that could explain why I never got on with it.
But and i cannot stress this enough i went to see the suspension guy at croft and the first thing can you check my sag on the rear as it just doesn't feel right and he sat me on the bike and went that's fine i don't need to measure it i can see it. after this i increased the sag by a few mm and it made the world of a difference, ill need to try and go to the 35mm on the back as you say though.
But rather than just focussing on the rear, make sure the numbers are right front AND back. If you get the rear spot on, it might still feel shyte if the front is miles out. You need to establish balance in the bikes suspension, front to rear.
So get the sag set correctly first and foremost
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