Road riding and getting your knee down...
Discussion
Firstly, I can't get my knee down on the track let alone on the road. But the knee sliders thread got me thinking, could/should you really get your knee down on the road.
Maybe I don't understand the physics of it, but surely you must have to be doing quite a fast pace to get your knee down on the road?
A few of my friends go off to a local retail park and get their knee down around a couple of roundabouts but they're doing about 30mph around those. A few have been nicked for without due care and attention due to cars potentially not being able to see them. But they still do it, each to their own I suppose.
I suppose my real question is, should I be able to do it on the road through some of the real twisty sections we have in narrrfulk... Or would I have to be riding silly to be able to do it?
Either way I won't be as I still have what I call "contact patch fear".
Maybe I don't understand the physics of it, but surely you must have to be doing quite a fast pace to get your knee down on the road?
A few of my friends go off to a local retail park and get their knee down around a couple of roundabouts but they're doing about 30mph around those. A few have been nicked for without due care and attention due to cars potentially not being able to see them. But they still do it, each to their own I suppose.
I suppose my real question is, should I be able to do it on the road through some of the real twisty sections we have in narrrfulk... Or would I have to be riding silly to be able to do it?
Either way I won't be as I still have what I call "contact patch fear".
I think you've already answered your own question.
With your mates already being nicked for getting their knee down in a public area (even a car park), the police are not too happy with this.
Pretty much a thing for the track.
It is a novelty thing though.
I can remember getting my first set of leathers with sliders, when i had the first 600cc; it was great to get a knee down on the roundabout.
With your mates already being nicked for getting their knee down in a public area (even a car park), the police are not too happy with this.
Pretty much a thing for the track.
It is a novelty thing though.
I can remember getting my first set of leathers with sliders, when i had the first 600cc; it was great to get a knee down on the roundabout.
This has been done a lot on here. Basically, you don't need to do it on the road, you can go just as fast if not faster without doing it, if you are doing it your leaning off too far for the roads.
That being said it's one of the funnest parts of biking for me. it gives you that feeling of being a part of it and not just controlling the machine like a car. Ive never done it intentionally on a roundabout as I'm always conscious that in the rain roundabouts are where you see all the diesel overfill spill ages so for whatever reason ive never done that. When it happens on the roads unintentionally it's when pressing on pretty fast but you can do it on a safe corner at fairly low speeds just to experience/enjoy it. Ignore what all the fun police say if you want to do it (which 90% of bikers that aren't on here seem to want to do) then go try. Once it happens once and you realise how much more the bike can do youll wonder what the fuss was about.
Just make sure the tyres are warm you can see through the corner and there's no dirt, gravel etc and go practice.
That being said it's one of the funnest parts of biking for me. it gives you that feeling of being a part of it and not just controlling the machine like a car. Ive never done it intentionally on a roundabout as I'm always conscious that in the rain roundabouts are where you see all the diesel overfill spill ages so for whatever reason ive never done that. When it happens on the roads unintentionally it's when pressing on pretty fast but you can do it on a safe corner at fairly low speeds just to experience/enjoy it. Ignore what all the fun police say if you want to do it (which 90% of bikers that aren't on here seem to want to do) then go try. Once it happens once and you realise how much more the bike can do youll wonder what the fuss was about.
Just make sure the tyres are warm you can see through the corner and there's no dirt, gravel etc and go practice.
I want to be able to do it. I've only got about 1cm of tyre left on each side in chicken strips so I'm sure if I hang off enough and get the lean / speed right through the corner my knees would touch down, it's just having the bottle to make it happen.
I know that you need to generally go slower and wider through the corner to do it, most of the time it's faster to keep your arse in the seat and not hang right off etc, I know it's childish, irrelevant and potentially irrepsonsible depending on the time and place, but I'd still like to be able to do it. Once you can do it at will on practically any corner, then you are allowed to get all po-faced and serious about not needing to do it. I'm still at the "looks like fun" stage.
I know that you need to generally go slower and wider through the corner to do it, most of the time it's faster to keep your arse in the seat and not hang right off etc, I know it's childish, irrelevant and potentially irrepsonsible depending on the time and place, but I'd still like to be able to do it. Once you can do it at will on practically any corner, then you are allowed to get all po-faced and serious about not needing to do it. I'm still at the "looks like fun" stage.
I've never ever got my knee down on the road. However I comfortably keep up with my friends who do and often leave said friends when out on the open roads. I think it depends on your riding style really; I do enjoy leaning over at a relatively strong angle for road riding but despite shifting my arse over on the seat and sticking my leg out a little bit, I have never felt the need to touch my knee fully down.
I've always been much more satisfied that I've never really had "chicken strips", and on more powerful machinery I notice after pressing on a bit I tend to get chattering/light tearing on the outer inch of the tyre. We're not talking right to the edge with some Valentino style balling up but it's always enough to make me grin when I spot it!
I've always been much more satisfied that I've never really had "chicken strips", and on more powerful machinery I notice after pressing on a bit I tend to get chattering/light tearing on the outer inch of the tyre. We're not talking right to the edge with some Valentino style balling up but it's always enough to make me grin when I spot it!
Read a long piece in the main German bike mag (online) last week. Wasn't specifically about knee-down but rather hanging off the bike and whether you should do it on the road or keep it for track work only. They were very much in favour of hanging off on the road as claimed it was safer, because if you are hanging off then for the same corner speed the bike will be more upright so you are using less of the tyre's potential grip and if you need to brake or manoeuvre in the corner for any reason then you are more able to. Also claimed that if hanging off correctly you have more leverage on the bars. Don't shoot the messenger! I am just reporting what they wrote. Of course if you are hanging off properly then getting your knee down is fairly straightforward.
Having said all the above I don't hang off on the road myself (in the past have done so on roundabouts solely to get my knee down - which was fun even if pointless).
Lastly, if you look at photos in magazines or online you can see that with the right technique you can get your knee down when the bike is almost vertical so it is not necessarily about extreme lean angles (in fact as above if you hang off properly you would be lent over less).
Having said all the above I don't hang off on the road myself (in the past have done so on roundabouts solely to get my knee down - which was fun even if pointless).
Lastly, if you look at photos in magazines or online you can see that with the right technique you can get your knee down when the bike is almost vertical so it is not necessarily about extreme lean angles (in fact as above if you hang off properly you would be lent over less).
The article I referenced above. Don't know how to translate it online.
http://m.motorradonline.de/rat-und-tat/tipps-und-t...
No need on the road, just check out some of the road racer riding styles for examples...sure they *might* get down on some bends but mostly there is a faster way through a sequence of bends that is a compromise. The goal is to spend as least time at lean and the most time upright on the throttle......
Saying that, you can achieve a lot of the positive effect by moving your bodyweight around on the bike and most advanced road riding schools will teach that. No need to try to get your elbow down, just a few inch shift of bodyweight helps a lot
If the knee down thing is still a personal goal then go on a trackday, or airfield training day ...some schools do knee down specific courses try www.i2imca.com ....its a lot safer than mucking about on the road
Saying that, you can achieve a lot of the positive effect by moving your bodyweight around on the bike and most advanced road riding schools will teach that. No need to try to get your elbow down, just a few inch shift of bodyweight helps a lot
If the knee down thing is still a personal goal then go on a trackday, or airfield training day ...some schools do knee down specific courses try www.i2imca.com ....its a lot safer than mucking about on the road
Interesting replies. Thanks guys.
Maybe some of my issue is I know I'm not moving around in the seat, so I'm not really "at one" with the bike as much as I could be.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to do it, but as I said I have a real fear on front tyre contact patch.
Maybe with a bit more riding experience and a couple of riding courses I've got booked up maybe the confidence will come
Maybe some of my issue is I know I'm not moving around in the seat, so I'm not really "at one" with the bike as much as I could be.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to do it, but as I said I have a real fear on front tyre contact patch.
Maybe with a bit more riding experience and a couple of riding courses I've got booked up maybe the confidence will come
bogie said:
. The goal is to spend as least time at lean and the most time upright on the throttle......
That may be the goal for a road race but I don't generally head out on a Sunday to get somewhere the quickest possible time possibly. I like to get there with the biggest grin possible. Sometimes that means going quickly sometimes I like to try get my kneedown. Most parts that we 'pistonheads' enjoy are quite anti social and have certain risks. Speeding/wheelies etc it's just another one of those things.If you don't like doing it or don't see the point then there's no problem with that. If you,go out to go round a round about a zillion times again no problem there. As long as your enjoying yourself and your not purposefully putting others at risk then it's all good.
Kneedown? It's all about elbow down and for the really good road riders, helmet down, although that does sting a little 
On a slightly more serious note, you can get your knee down at 15 mph if you want and you can also do it by looking a proper goon (see Jack Miller's goon riding).
On a slightly more serious note, you can get your knee down at 15 mph if you want and you can also do it by looking a proper goon (see Jack Miller's goon riding).
Edited by LoonR1 on Monday 25th May 09:31
I often go out riding with a friend who has been riding for some 30 + years and I have never seen anyone else go as fast, as smoothly, with (seemingly) such minimum fuss.
Normally I (along with no end of others) are moving around and trying to judge corners etc for maximum 'look' (pose) and he just goes sailing on through. It is really amazing to watch - because the overall result is just quick. On the same stretch of road/corners I am always wondering how he gets so far ahead.
Very impressive to follow someone who is making it look so simple.
I'd love to get my knee down, but frankly I am not competent, or confident, enough. So sticking with getting home and thinking what a great ride, will have to do
Normally I (along with no end of others) are moving around and trying to judge corners etc for maximum 'look' (pose) and he just goes sailing on through. It is really amazing to watch - because the overall result is just quick. On the same stretch of road/corners I am always wondering how he gets so far ahead.
Very impressive to follow someone who is making it look so simple.
I'd love to get my knee down, but frankly I am not competent, or confident, enough. So sticking with getting home and thinking what a great ride, will have to do
I don't think so.
a lot of riders look, quite frankly, ridiculous when they do it too; you know the ones who are hanging off like crazy, leg stuck out at 90 degrees, bike almost vertical. Just looks daft and at that kind of angle totally pointless as you'll still have a full contact patch.
And in 3....2.....
a lot of riders look, quite frankly, ridiculous when they do it too; you know the ones who are hanging off like crazy, leg stuck out at 90 degrees, bike almost vertical. Just looks daft and at that kind of angle totally pointless as you'll still have a full contact patch.
And in 3....2.....
I find it helpful to commit to a corner by shifting my position around the seat, swinging my head over, and sticking my knee out. Perhaps not quite hanging off but definitely moving my not inconsiderable weight to the inside of the turn and slightly lower. It's fun and a challenge to time the shift from cheek to cheek correctly when negotiating a left-right or right-left series of corners. With the balls of my feet on the pegs I feel like I'm making an active contribution to the dynamic mix.
If the knee ever touches tarmac that will be interesting and doubtless pretty satisfying, but it's not particularly an objective.
If the knee ever touches tarmac that will be interesting and doubtless pretty satisfying, but it's not particularly an objective.
Not sure if there are some sensitive egos on here but are people that diss knee down on the road being a bit defensive? The argument that "I could if I wanted to but don't see the point" sounds a bit dubious to me.
I don't get my knee down but if I see someone ride quickly, hanging off and knee on the ground I have to admit to be a bit impressed. But not jealous. Just like I can't wheelie (never tried consciously to do it as too nervous of crashing and looking a tit) but I do take my hat off to those who do.
I don't get my knee down but if I see someone ride quickly, hanging off and knee on the ground I have to admit to be a bit impressed. But not jealous. Just like I can't wheelie (never tried consciously to do it as too nervous of crashing and looking a tit) but I do take my hat off to those who do.
I've been getting my knee down on the road for 21 years. There's no need for it generally, but the novelties never really worn off.
When I learned to ride, most sports bikes struggled with ground clearance, mainly I think, as the distance between the pegs was bigger as engines were wider. Back then I ground away part of my centre stand and my pegs on my Kawasaki GPX. Even on my 90s ZX6R, the hero blobs were gone on the pegs.
Although I was getting my knee down for fun, hanging off was more of an essential thing due to limited ground clearance and it helped muscle heavier bikes around by moving your weight around.
Sports bikes today will often ride off the edge of their rear tyre before they deck out belly pans or pegs. Centre stands are pretty much a thing of the past on anything quick.
As for necessity? There are about a hand full of places on my local rides where I actually need to hang off as you can go fast enough to run out of lean angle/tyre. In these locations, on a nice traffic free day, I will hang off. Even then, knee down is not necessary, but I do it every time as it feels great and gives me a little rush - even all these years on!
When I learned to ride, most sports bikes struggled with ground clearance, mainly I think, as the distance between the pegs was bigger as engines were wider. Back then I ground away part of my centre stand and my pegs on my Kawasaki GPX. Even on my 90s ZX6R, the hero blobs were gone on the pegs.
Although I was getting my knee down for fun, hanging off was more of an essential thing due to limited ground clearance and it helped muscle heavier bikes around by moving your weight around.
Sports bikes today will often ride off the edge of their rear tyre before they deck out belly pans or pegs. Centre stands are pretty much a thing of the past on anything quick.
As for necessity? There are about a hand full of places on my local rides where I actually need to hang off as you can go fast enough to run out of lean angle/tyre. In these locations, on a nice traffic free day, I will hang off. Even then, knee down is not necessary, but I do it every time as it feels great and gives me a little rush - even all these years on!
Dog Star said:
I don't think so.
a lot of riders look, quite frankly, ridiculous when they do it too; you know the ones who are hanging off like crazy, leg stuck out at 90 degrees, bike almost vertical. Just looks daft and at that kind of angle totally pointless as you'll still have a full contact patch.
And in 3....2.....
You're right. a lot of riders look, quite frankly, ridiculous when they do it too; you know the ones who are hanging off like crazy, leg stuck out at 90 degrees, bike almost vertical. Just looks daft and at that kind of angle totally pointless as you'll still have a full contact patch.
And in 3....2.....
One of the fastest pieces of riding I've ever witnessed was at the Ring last August. An older looking gentleman with a long ponytail riding a red GSXR 1000 K5; he didn't shuffle his arse or lean off at all... Completely and utterly upright body position yet the lean angle he was going to was absurd! Such a smooth and unbelievably fast rider, but such an odd riding style, literally looked like he was going down to the shops for a pint of milk. He may as well of had an open faced lid with a fag hanging out the side of his mouth he looked that relaxed!
Tim85 said:
bogie said:
. The goal is to spend as least time at lean and the most time upright on the throttle......
That may be the goal for a road race but I don't generally head out on a Sunday to get somewhere the quickest possible time possibly. I like to get there with the biggest grin possible. Sometimes that means going quickly sometimes I like to try get my kneedown. Most parts that we 'pistonheads' enjoy are quite anti social and have certain risks. Speeding/wheelies etc it's just another one of those things.If you don't like doing it or don't see the point then there's no problem with that. If you,go out to go round a round about a zillion times again no problem there. As long as your enjoying yourself and your not purposefully putting others at risk then it's all good.
I don't thing the road is the best place to learn though, and trackdays are cheap enough so you can experiment in safety
bogie said:
I'm not saying I don't like doing it, although its a long time since I was agile enough to really ride a sportsbike. These days my style is more Rospa than Rossi
I don't thing the road is the best place to learn though, and trackdays are cheap enough so you can experiment in safety
Absoloubtly, but the roads not the best place to practice wheelies etc but a lot on here do. Its like anything. We're all grown ups we can all evaluate risk. Is the risk of you crashing your bike higher, definitly, is the risk greater to other people...it shouldn't be if your practicing somewhere quiet and with no traffic on and plenty of visability. I don't thing the road is the best place to learn though, and trackdays are cheap enough so you can experiment in safety
I've been on rides out on here with people at silly speeds that felt perfectly safe but we're probably much riskier and no one batted an eyelid. In fact it was all cheers and smiles about how much fun it was at the end.
If it's a simple question of is it necessary then course it's not. Is it fun, definitely.
Plenty of people on here look down on it just like plenty of people will look down on them as their whizzing passed at a hefty rate of knots, just like plenty of people look down on that guy hoiking a massive wheely down his nearest b road, just like plenty of people look down on those that do 200 miles a year just to their local biker cafe to get away from their wives. It's just another part of biking that needs plenty of risk assessment but can be done or ignored as people see fit.
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