Picked up my 1299 today. I'm still speechless.
Discussion
bass gt3 said:
interesting Pete... care to explain you thoughts??
Myself and a mate were at the Duc dealer here, he's trying to chase up his 1299S that's on a never shortening delivery schedule. But he's now torn between the S and the base as this will be a 100% race bike, no road use. So is it better to get the base and uprate the suspension ( I believe so) or is the S a better package?
Personally, I'm not sold on adaptive suspension on a race bike and would rather buy pukka Ohlins/K Tech every time
If it's going to be a race bike, why pay for the leccy Ohlins? Get some manual suspension dialled in, and strip it of any excess weight. OTOH, if going that route for total performance, you'd want the higher rated internals that matter... Just buy the Pani R Myself and a mate were at the Duc dealer here, he's trying to chase up his 1299S that's on a never shortening delivery schedule. But he's now torn between the S and the base as this will be a 100% race bike, no road use. So is it better to get the base and uprate the suspension ( I believe so) or is the S a better package?
Personally, I'm not sold on adaptive suspension on a race bike and would rather buy pukka Ohlins/K Tech every time
Edited by bass gt3 on Monday 15th June 17:21
bass gt3 said:
interesting Pete... care to explain you thoughts??
Myself and a mate were at the Duc dealer here, he's trying to chase up his 1299S that's on a never shortening delivery schedule. But he's now torn between the S and the base as this will be a 100% race bike, no road use. So is it better to get the base and uprate the suspension ( I believe so) or is the S a better package?
Personally, I'm not sold on adaptive suspension on a race bike and would rather buy pukka Ohlins/K Tech every time
If it's going to be a race bike, why pay for the leccy Ohlins? Get some manual suspension dialled in, and strip it of any excess weight. OTOH, if going that route for total performance, you'd want the higher rated internals that matter... Just buy the Pani R Myself and a mate were at the Duc dealer here, he's trying to chase up his 1299S that's on a never shortening delivery schedule. But he's now torn between the S and the base as this will be a 100% race bike, no road use. So is it better to get the base and uprate the suspension ( I believe so) or is the S a better package?
Personally, I'm not sold on adaptive suspension on a race bike and would rather buy pukka Ohlins/K Tech every time
Edited by bass gt3 on Monday 15th June 17:21
spareparts said:
If it's going to be a race bike, why pay for the leccy Ohlins? Get some manual suspension dialled in, and strip it of any excess weight. OTOH, if going that route for total performance, you'd want the higher rated internals that matter... Just buy the Pani R
You have no idea !! We've been round and round and around. He's a bit of a techno geek and really fancies the leccy suspension. I've advised to get the base and pukka suspension, but his logic is if he doesn't like it he can always switch it off.I don't think he sees the value in quality suspension despite having no end of grief with his current ZX10 rear end. That turned out to be the shock only pressurised to 6bar not the required 10 from the factory!! He sees Ohlins tubes and thinks it's race spec stuff. Oh well.....
bass gt3 said:
spareparts said:
If it's going to be a race bike, why pay for the leccy Ohlins? Get some manual suspension dialled in, and strip it of any excess weight. OTOH, if going that route for total performance, you'd want the higher rated internals that matter... Just buy the Pani R
You have no idea !! We've been round and round and around. He's a bit of a techno geek and really fancies the leccy suspension. I've advised to get the base and pukka suspension, but his logic is if he doesn't like it he can always switch it off.I don't think he sees the value in quality suspension despite having no end of grief with his current ZX10 rear end. That turned out to be the shock only pressurised to 6bar not the required 10 from the factory!! He sees Ohlins tubes and thinks it's race spec stuff. Oh well.....
spareparts said:
Just send him the link to the Pani R. Maybe Ducati thought the leccy stuff was good enough for Giugliano, Canepa, Davies, or Baiocco... Oh wait
We were in the dealers today and they have a new R sat there. He came *this* close to getting it but thinks it's just too pricey compared to the S.personally, having seen the issues people are having/had with the 1199's I'd not be racing any of them.
bass gt3 said:
spareparts said:
Just send him the link to the Pani R. Maybe Ducati thought the leccy stuff was good enough for Giugliano, Canepa, Davies, or Baiocco... Oh wait
We were in the dealers today and they have a new R sat there. He came *this* close to getting it but thinks it's just too pricey compared to the S.personally, having seen the issues people are having/had with the 1199's I'd not be racing any of them.
The 2015 Pani R has a very different engine compared to the 2014 1199R.spareparts said:
The 2015 Pani R has a very different engine compared to the 2014 1199R.I've built countless engines and 2mates have had to have brand new motors in their 1199's.
Every iteration has promised great things but I've seen the insides of too many too believe it anymore.
And for reference, we're not talking spirited TD's, these are full on race bikes and they can't take the punishment of club racing.
d8mok said:
I thought the 1199s wasn't a particular nice ride. Would much prefer a set of proper ohlins and some decent wheels on a base model.
Don't forget the new 1299S has the adaptive/dynamic suspension whereas the 1199S was purely motors on the comp & rebound that moved them to preset positions without any "dynamic" adjustment. Fact is any Ohlins fitted to an off the showroom bike isn't that good tbh, particularly for full race use. There's a reason Ohlins call it R&T... Road & Track, so aimed at a bit of track with a road bias.
proper race suspension is a very different kettle of fish
I've done 300 miles on a standard 1299(mine) and 800 miles to the TT and back on the 1299s
For normal fast road riding I can't see the benefit in the 4k extra. The wheels look nice as does the carbon front mudguard but the standard suspension is absolutely fine.
Both are amazing bikes and far far beyond the capability of most people. ( based on myself)
Spend the extra on an exhaust or fuel.
Or perhaps a snazzy ducati outfit.
For normal fast road riding I can't see the benefit in the 4k extra. The wheels look nice as does the carbon front mudguard but the standard suspension is absolutely fine.
Both are amazing bikes and far far beyond the capability of most people. ( based on myself)
Spend the extra on an exhaust or fuel.
Or perhaps a snazzy ducati outfit.
bass gt3 said:
spareparts said:
The 2015 Pani R has a very different engine compared to the 2014 1199R.I've built countless engines and 2mates have had to have brand new motors in their 1199's.
Every iteration has promised great things but I've seen the insides of too many too believe it anymore.
And for reference, we're not talking spirited TD's, these are full on race bikes and they can't take the punishment of club racing.
I know you're bit of an anorak when it comes to the tech details; but are you actually a Ducati race engine builder, support a race team, or just an enthusiast who happens to club race? You say you build engines, but have you built a SBK spec Ducati engine? I ask cos you're pretty bolshy with knowing what's good/not good. Maybe there isn't the same level of engine building where your friends rebuild, compared to factory support? I'd like to put you up against Baz or Steve at MotoRapido to level set on knowledge of the engine differences!
spareparts said:
Steve,
I know you're bit of an anorak when it comes to the tech details; but are you actually a Ducati race engine builder, support a race team, or just an enthusiast who happens to club race? You say you build engines, but have you built a SBK spec Ducati engine? I ask cos you're pretty bolshy with knowing what's good/not good. Maybe there isn't the same level of engine building where your friends rebuild, compared to factory support? I'd like to put you up against Baz or Steve at MotoRapido to level set on knowledge of the engine differences!
I know you're bit of an anorak when it comes to the tech details; but are you actually a Ducati race engine builder, support a race team, or just an enthusiast who happens to club race? You say you build engines, but have you built a SBK spec Ducati engine? I ask cos you're pretty bolshy with knowing what's good/not good. Maybe there isn't the same level of engine building where your friends rebuild, compared to factory support? I'd like to put you up against Baz or Steve at MotoRapido to level set on knowledge of the engine differences!
3DP said:
Other than that I'm worried that dropping £20k on a bike would have me worrying too much about a spill. A good deal on a standard 1299 will be back into my mental range of 'acceptable losses'. With commodities prices normalising, labour costs largely flat and a weak Euro, these prices are starting to look a little salty.
I agree it's a lot of money but surely it would have to be insured fully comp so the worrying about a spill is a strange statement to make.Brilliant looking bike though.
spareparts said:
Steve,
I know you're bit of an anorak when it comes to the tech details; but are you actually a Ducati race engine builder, support a race team, or just an enthusiast who happens to club race? You say you build engines, but have you built a SBK spec Ducati engine? I ask cos you're pretty bolshy with knowing what's good/not good. Maybe there isn't the same level of engine building where your friends rebuild, compared to factory support? I'd like to put you up against Baz or Steve at MotoRapido to level set on knowledge of the engine differences!
Ade,I know you're bit of an anorak when it comes to the tech details; but are you actually a Ducati race engine builder, support a race team, or just an enthusiast who happens to club race? You say you build engines, but have you built a SBK spec Ducati engine? I ask cos you're pretty bolshy with knowing what's good/not good. Maybe there isn't the same level of engine building where your friends rebuild, compared to factory support? I'd like to put you up against Baz or Steve at MotoRapido to level set on knowledge of the engine differences!
It isn't a question of engine building, or the quality or competency of local builders. What we are talking about here are totally untouched, as supplied in the frame virgin engines. Never opened, fiddled or tampered with. Yet we see big ends and mains failing at 3000kms, pistons cracking at 4000kms, 1198 selector drums and dogs failing with monotonous regularity.
When you compare the off the show room reliability of the Ducati Superbikes that get used for trackdays or racing there's a far higher failure rate compared to other marques used in similar circumstances. For example there's a shed load of zx10's that are raced right up to National level, not a single failure. Same with BMW (now) Honda and Yamaha.
And for reference these are failures that Ducati are replacing engines under warranty so they're not playing the "Race Warranty" card on either. Always serviced at Ducati, correct oil etc yet the 1199 failure rate is starting to look worrisome. And that's why I voiced disquiet about the new 1199R as a race bike. Going by the previous incidence of failures it's difficult to have confidence that this new motor will be any better.
Maybe ask Baz or Steve what a rebuild would cost on this motor and then consider if you'd want to take that risk
And before anyone gets all airiated and vexed, this is related to track bikes only, not road bikes that do a couple of TD's a year. Hopefully you'll be fine until just after the warranty expires
Edited by bass gt3 on Tuesday 16th June 02:05
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff