£4-5k on an FJR1300 or a R1200GS?
Discussion
Renn Sport said:
However on A roads and motorways the new GS1200 feels spritely but it aint quick! Its a 125bhp 230kg bike!
Where as a Ducati Multistrada feels quick!! Thats 160bhp 200kg.
How quick do you need on an A-road or a motorway though? I'm a firm believer that you can do a ton you're on the wrong road. For a commuter and two up tourer weather protection, comfort and reliability are more important that outright speed, and on holiday in the alps speed != fun.Where as a Ducati Multistrada feels quick!! Thats 160bhp 200kg.
On the other hand I do fancy a multistrada but have deliberately avoided test riding one as I know I'll need one if I do
RizzoTheRat said:
Renn Sport said:
However on A roads and motorways the new GS1200 feels spritely but it aint quick! Its a 125bhp 230kg bike!
Where as a Ducati Multistrada feels quick!! Thats 160bhp 200kg.
How quick do you need on an A-road or a motorway though? I'm a firm believer that you can do a ton you're on the wrong road. For a commuter and two up tourer weather protection, comfort and reliability are more important that outright speed, and on holiday in the alps speed != fun.Where as a Ducati Multistrada feels quick!! Thats 160bhp 200kg.
On the other hand I do fancy a multistrada but have deliberately avoided test riding one as I know I'll need one if I do
I had a older Ducati MTS1000 and it had 85bhp. It was plenty fast enough but really didnt have the grunt I wanted. So I Have lived with lesser powered bikes but I guess I like the power.
Its more effortless with the BHP a twist away.
The Gear box on the GS was pretty much like a tractor and from Fergus's post seems that his one was also pretty shoddy in that area.
Its a good bike.
Renn Sport said:
Well I guess were getting into the great horsepower debate, which is applicable to all bikes.
I had a older Ducati MTS1000 and it had 85bhp. It was plenty fast enough but really didnt have the grunt I wanted. So I Have lived with lesser powered bikes but I guess I like the power.
Its more effortless with the BHP a twist away.
The Gear box on the GS was pretty much like a tractor and from Fergus's post seems that his one was also pretty shoddy in that area.
Its a good bike.
In the interests of a balanced debate, I've also had my 05 GS gearbox rebuilt twice, once with bearing failure, and once with a worn selector fork, but I tend to do clutchless up and downshifts (with blips though.. I am ...."the autoblipper")I had a older Ducati MTS1000 and it had 85bhp. It was plenty fast enough but really didnt have the grunt I wanted. So I Have lived with lesser powered bikes but I guess I like the power.
Its more effortless with the BHP a twist away.
The Gear box on the GS was pretty much like a tractor and from Fergus's post seems that his one was also pretty shoddy in that area.
Its a good bike.
Edited by fergus on Wednesday 17th June 17:27
Renn Sport said:
spareparts said:
If anyone thinks the GS is slow compared to other bikes on the road, they probably need rider training.
The current LC GS has brilliant handling be it 2-up or solo.
err... sorry to disagree. I know I wont be popular, I recognise you'll be questioning my riding but...The current LC GS has brilliant handling be it 2-up or solo.
125bhp 230kg bike aint quick. Admittedly you may be one of these chaps who rag their bike through london filtering with abandon and if thats how you measure it then I have seen 125cc riders who are faster then sport bikes because they dont give a s
t.However on A roads and motorways the new GS1200 feels spritely but it aint quick! Its a 125bhp 230kg bike!
Where as a Ducati Multistrada feels quick!! Thats 160bhp 200kg.
I'm not blinded by the GS, as I thoroughly enjoy my c.200hp sportsbike and have used it as intended plus ridden hard over roads. FWIW, I've also ridden the S1000XR and do not rate it for fast road riding. I think their new RS is a faster bike that can carry serious speed through bends.
Great responses, especially on the commuting practicalities.
To be fair, I don't NEED more power than the GS but then, who does? But after the reports here which accurately reflect what I've seen on some owners forums, it seems like a bit of a reliability lottery with the GS. Much as I love the look of them and their image, I don't think its enough to overcome the roulette of drive train issues and electrical gremlins. An *adventure* bike with numerous reports of malfunctioning in wet weather is unforgiveable and reinforces some of my opinions on BMW formed since owning my E92 3 series. The ownership experience does not stack up to the image or marketing message.
With 175hp. and a comfy riding position, the VFR is ahead I reckon. Its just a bit of a stretch over an FJR.
To be fair, I don't NEED more power than the GS but then, who does? But after the reports here which accurately reflect what I've seen on some owners forums, it seems like a bit of a reliability lottery with the GS. Much as I love the look of them and their image, I don't think its enough to overcome the roulette of drive train issues and electrical gremlins. An *adventure* bike with numerous reports of malfunctioning in wet weather is unforgiveable and reinforces some of my opinions on BMW formed since owning my E92 3 series. The ownership experience does not stack up to the image or marketing message.
With 175hp. and a comfy riding position, the VFR is ahead I reckon. Its just a bit of a stretch over an FJR.
Ok now your talking.
When the VFR1200 came out I loved it. It was futuristic and modern. I loved the deep paint, the way the fairings clipped neatly together and the shaft drive I loved the fact it had a V4 and was shaft drive. It’s the perfect motorcycle for all conditions. I again recognise I am probably alone in my love of this bike.
My good friend lent me his VFR1200 for a month or so when I was bikeless for a bit and I spent a fair amount of time on this bike. The bike handles great but you know she is a heavy old girl at slow speeds as I believe from memory we are talking over or near 250kg. being cranked at a smaller slower speed roundabout or turn made you notice its weight. Most other times you do not feel it at all. Its simply an awesome ride.
A couple of things I found less than ideal (and this is just my humble ramblings) is the seat was pretty hard after the 1st hundred miles (easy to fix), the engine note is suffocated by the standard exhaust (easy fix), which is criminal and when riding with a pillion the lash of the shaft drive often meant that the pillion was rocking somewhat. Now I never experienced this on my Blackbird so I can only put it down to two things a) me and the way I release the clutch on the VFR or b) the shaft drive isn’t as good as a BMW (I previously owned a R1100S, which didn’t do this). It’s probably me being at fault to be honest… maybe..
Great bike. You can do it all on that machine. Commute, sporty rides, pillion tours and maybe the odd track day?
When the VFR1200 came out I loved it. It was futuristic and modern. I loved the deep paint, the way the fairings clipped neatly together and the shaft drive I loved the fact it had a V4 and was shaft drive. It’s the perfect motorcycle for all conditions. I again recognise I am probably alone in my love of this bike.
My good friend lent me his VFR1200 for a month or so when I was bikeless for a bit and I spent a fair amount of time on this bike. The bike handles great but you know she is a heavy old girl at slow speeds as I believe from memory we are talking over or near 250kg. being cranked at a smaller slower speed roundabout or turn made you notice its weight. Most other times you do not feel it at all. Its simply an awesome ride.
A couple of things I found less than ideal (and this is just my humble ramblings) is the seat was pretty hard after the 1st hundred miles (easy to fix), the engine note is suffocated by the standard exhaust (easy fix), which is criminal and when riding with a pillion the lash of the shaft drive often meant that the pillion was rocking somewhat. Now I never experienced this on my Blackbird so I can only put it down to two things a) me and the way I release the clutch on the VFR or b) the shaft drive isn’t as good as a BMW (I previously owned a R1100S, which didn’t do this). It’s probably me being at fault to be honest… maybe..
Great bike. You can do it all on that machine. Commute, sporty rides, pillion tours and maybe the odd track day?
Renn Sport said:
Ok now your talking.
The bike handles great but you know she is a heavy old girl at slow speeds as I believe from memory we are talking over or near 250kg. being cranked at a smaller slower speed roundabout or turn made you notice its weight. Most other times you do not feel it at all. Its simply an awesome ride.
A couple of things I found less than ideal (and this is just my humble ramblings) is the seat was pretty hard after the 1st hundred miles (easy to fix), the engine note is suffocated by the standard exhaust (easy fix), which is criminal and when riding with a pillion the lash of the shaft drive often meant that the pillion was rocking somewhat. Now I never experienced this on my Blackbird so I can only put it down to two things a) me and the way I release the clutch on the VFR or b) the shaft drive isn’t as good as a BMW (I previously owned a R1100S, which didn’t do this). It’s probably me being at fault to be honest… maybe..
Great bike. You can do it all on that machine. Commute, sporty rides, pillion tours and maybe the odd track day?
As a vfr 1200 owner for the last three years I would agree with most of what you say.The bike handles great but you know she is a heavy old girl at slow speeds as I believe from memory we are talking over or near 250kg. being cranked at a smaller slower speed roundabout or turn made you notice its weight. Most other times you do not feel it at all. Its simply an awesome ride.
A couple of things I found less than ideal (and this is just my humble ramblings) is the seat was pretty hard after the 1st hundred miles (easy to fix), the engine note is suffocated by the standard exhaust (easy fix), which is criminal and when riding with a pillion the lash of the shaft drive often meant that the pillion was rocking somewhat. Now I never experienced this on my Blackbird so I can only put it down to two things a) me and the way I release the clutch on the VFR or b) the shaft drive isn’t as good as a BMW (I previously owned a R1100S, which didn’t do this). It’s probably me being at fault to be honest… maybe..
Great bike. You can do it all on that machine. Commute, sporty rides, pillion tours and maybe the odd track day?
The bike has proven to be very versatile, handles pretty well and the engine is superb.
I've never really noticed the shaft drive being snatchy at all, but I've got the DCT version so I'm not using the clutch because I don't have one.
Your point about the weight is well made, particularly in slow manoeuvering. I moved onto the VFR from an R1 so it was definitely noticeable from me. But the OP was considering an FJR, and having owned one of those for a while, I can guarantee you that the vfr feels much lighter and positively nimble in comparison to one of those. The Honda is a much more modern machine and I don't think anyone would deny that the FJR has been around for a very long time and is pretty dated now.
spareparts said:
I'll give you that: the GS is not a bike for straight line speed merchants on the motorway if that thing appeals to you. The GS does run out of puff as it approaches 110-120mph (where legal). In the twisties over some fun roads, then a well ridden GS is a quick bike, and it will easily keep up for longer and further than any sportsbike rider can manage.
I'm not blinded by the GS, as I thoroughly enjoy my c.200hp sportsbike and have used it as intended plus ridden hard over roads. FWIW, I've also ridden the S1000XR and do not rate it for fast road riding. I think their new RS is a faster bike that can carry serious speed through bends.
With all due respect (and I mean that). It’s not about being a straight line speed merchant, and frankly its tiresome when someone suggests that they enjoy horsepower that people automatically assume that you only go fast in a straight-line. Few things are better than being cranked over at speed, especially a big old GS, which feels fantastic leant over. I'm not blinded by the GS, as I thoroughly enjoy my c.200hp sportsbike and have used it as intended plus ridden hard over roads. FWIW, I've also ridden the S1000XR and do not rate it for fast road riding. I think their new RS is a faster bike that can carry serious speed through bends.
I think it comes down to what kind of riding you enjoy really. The GS would have remained at 90bhp if BMW didn’t think horsepower wasn’t important. They wouldn’t have developed the XR if they felt performance wasn’t a factor in customers desire for a bit more go.
The point you make about the 'well ridden' GS can keep up with sport bikes. Thats just the most over used standard patter when ever these discussions happen. Usually In the context of 600’s and 1000’s. Can I put it to you that a well ridden GS is going to get left for dead by a well ridden 1000 sport bike? The pre supposition is that the GS being ridden well and the Sportbike not. The rider variable can be applied across any range of bike.
There is a great story where Kenny Roberts Snr was riding his Harley through some canyon roads. He got buzzed by a sport bike rider and overtaken very close. He took exception to that and decided it was on. Kenny Roberts murdered the guy through the canyons and only when the sport bike rider started to override and was on the opposite side of the road (on coming traffic) and running off places trying to chase. Kenny just stopped and waved the guy through.. he let him go. In Kenny Roberts words he said he ‘let him live’.
Rider ability and the risk they are prepared to take on the road is the usually the deciding factor as to who is faster. The more I ride on track the more crazy superfast road riding seems to me. It’s just a gamble with your life and health. Just my opinion though. I still ride quick but to the road conditions, traffic and road knowledge.
I think if you ride a Ducati Multi-strada 1200 you’ll find it so much more enjoyable than the GS as you have so much more torque and agility! I can only imagine what the KTM 1290 Adventure feels like and by all accounts its superb.
On another note.. do you remember the BMW HP2 Enduro? Imagine a new 125bhp GS1200 stripped down supermoto? Lighter and more agile, now that would be a stonking bike.
If you're considering a VFR1200 then it might also be worth looking at the K1300S as a pretty capable long distance sports tourer.
As for "well ridden" whatever vs sports bike, bear in mind it also depends on the road. I've outrun an R1 ridden by a quicker rider than me on a TDM850 with half his horsepower, mainly because he couldn't get the power down on a bumpy road, although my better visibility from being sat higher up probably helped too. On a smooth road he pissed off in to the distance. However for me speed and fun aren't necessarily the same thing, I absolutely love the bumpy twisty backroads and will probably have a lot more fun on them than a rider who's getting thrown all over the place by his stiffer suspension. Similarly I've outrun an R6 over the mountain on the IoM on the same 70bhp TDM, and I'm pretty sure that was due to me being a better rider than him not the bike being better suited to the road
As for "well ridden" whatever vs sports bike, bear in mind it also depends on the road. I've outrun an R1 ridden by a quicker rider than me on a TDM850 with half his horsepower, mainly because he couldn't get the power down on a bumpy road, although my better visibility from being sat higher up probably helped too. On a smooth road he pissed off in to the distance. However for me speed and fun aren't necessarily the same thing, I absolutely love the bumpy twisty backroads and will probably have a lot more fun on them than a rider who's getting thrown all over the place by his stiffer suspension. Similarly I've outrun an R6 over the mountain on the IoM on the same 70bhp TDM, and I'm pretty sure that was due to me being a better rider than him not the bike being better suited to the road
fergus said:
Renn Sport said:
Well I guess were getting into the great horsepower debate, which is applicable to all bikes.
I had a older Ducati MTS1000 and it had 85bhp. It was plenty fast enough but really didnt have the grunt I wanted. So I Have lived with lesser powered bikes but I guess I like the power.
Its more effortless with the BHP a twist away.
The Gear box on the GS was pretty much like a tractor and from Fergus's post seems that his one was also pretty shoddy in that area.
Its a good bike.
In the interests of a balanced debate, I've also had my 05 GS gearbox rebuilt twice, once with bearing failure, and once with a worn selector fork, but I tend to do clutchless up and downshifts (with blips though.. I am ...."the autoblipper")I had a older Ducati MTS1000 and it had 85bhp. It was plenty fast enough but really didnt have the grunt I wanted. So I Have lived with lesser powered bikes but I guess I like the power.
Its more effortless with the BHP a twist away.
The Gear box on the GS was pretty much like a tractor and from Fergus's post seems that his one was also pretty shoddy in that area.
Its a good bike.
Renn Sport said:
spareparts said:
I'll give you that: the GS is not a bike for straight line speed merchants on the motorway if that thing appeals to you. The GS does run out of puff as it approaches 110-120mph (where legal). In the twisties over some fun roads, then a well ridden GS is a quick bike, and it will easily keep up for longer and further than any sportsbike rider can manage.
I'm not blinded by the GS, as I thoroughly enjoy my c.200hp sportsbike and have used it as intended plus ridden hard over roads. FWIW, I've also ridden the S1000XR and do not rate it for fast road riding. I think their new RS is a faster bike that can carry serious speed through bends.
With all due respect (and I mean that). It’s not about being a straight line speed merchant, and frankly its tiresome when someone suggests that they enjoy horsepower that people automatically assume that you only go fast in a straight-line. Few things are better than being cranked over at speed, especially a big old GS, which feels fantastic leant over. I'm not blinded by the GS, as I thoroughly enjoy my c.200hp sportsbike and have used it as intended plus ridden hard over roads. FWIW, I've also ridden the S1000XR and do not rate it for fast road riding. I think their new RS is a faster bike that can carry serious speed through bends.
I think it comes down to what kind of riding you enjoy really. The GS would have remained at 90bhp if BMW didn’t think horsepower wasn’t important. They wouldn’t have developed the XR if they felt performance wasn’t a factor in customers desire for a bit more go.
The point you make about the 'well ridden' GS can keep up with sport bikes. Thats just the most over used standard patter when ever these discussions happen. Usually In the context of 600’s and 1000’s. Can I put it to you that a well ridden GS is going to get left for dead by a well ridden 1000 sport bike? The pre supposition is that the GS being ridden well and the Sportbike not. The rider variable can be applied across any range of bike.
There is a great story where Kenny Roberts Snr was riding his Harley through some canyon roads. He got buzzed by a sport bike rider and overtaken very close. He took exception to that and decided it was on. Kenny Roberts murdered the guy through the canyons and only when the sport bike rider started to override and was on the opposite side of the road (on coming traffic) and running off places trying to chase. Kenny just stopped and waved the guy through.. he let him go. In Kenny Roberts words he said he ‘let him live’.
Rider ability and the risk they are prepared to take on the road is the usually the deciding factor as to who is faster. The more I ride on track the more crazy superfast road riding seems to me. It’s just a gamble with your life and health. Just my opinion though. I still ride quick but to the road conditions, traffic and road knowledge.
I think if you ride a Ducati Multi-strada 1200 you’ll find it so much more enjoyable than the GS as you have so much more torque and agility! I can only imagine what the KTM 1290 Adventure feels like and by all accounts its superb.
On another note.. do you remember the BMW HP2 Enduro? Imagine a new 125bhp GS1200 stripped down supermoto? Lighter and more agile, now that would be a stonking bike.
spareparts said:
If anyone thinks the GS is slow compared to other bikes on the road, they probably need rider training.
The current LC GS has brilliant handling be it 2-up or solo.
As Emerson Fittipaldi once said, if you can't go fast with 100hp, you won't be fast with 1000. Same principle applies to bikes..
. If you think they are, you prove the point that you need more rider training 
RizzoTheRat said:
If you're considering a VFR1200 then it might also be worth looking at the K1300S as a pretty capable long distance sports tourer.
As for "well ridden" whatever vs sports bike, bear in mind it also depends on the road. I've outrun an R1 ridden by a quicker rider than me on a TDM850 with half his horsepower, mainly because he couldn't get the power down on a bumpy road, although my better visibility from being sat higher up probably helped too. On a smooth road he pissed off in to the distance. However for me speed and fun aren't necessarily the same thing, I absolutely love the bumpy twisty backroads and will probably have a lot more fun on them than a rider who's getting thrown all over the place by his stiffer suspension. Similarly I've outrun an R6 over the mountain on the IoM on the same 70bhp TDM, and I'm pretty sure that was due to me being a better rider than him not the bike being better suited to the road
Very true - horses for courses.As for "well ridden" whatever vs sports bike, bear in mind it also depends on the road. I've outrun an R1 ridden by a quicker rider than me on a TDM850 with half his horsepower, mainly because he couldn't get the power down on a bumpy road, although my better visibility from being sat higher up probably helped too. On a smooth road he pissed off in to the distance. However for me speed and fun aren't necessarily the same thing, I absolutely love the bumpy twisty backroads and will probably have a lot more fun on them than a rider who's getting thrown all over the place by his stiffer suspension. Similarly I've outrun an R6 over the mountain on the IoM on the same 70bhp TDM, and I'm pretty sure that was due to me being a better rider than him not the bike being better suited to the road
Some of the B roads round me are now so badly maintained and in such an appalling state that I can drive them faster in my Citroen Berlingo station car than I can in my Porsche 911. In some circumstances bouncy compliant suspension and less power can win out.
Re: the K 1300/VFR1200 comparison again it horses for courses. My best biking buddy has a K1300 and I have the VFR so I have ridden both models back to back on a number of occasions. Yes they are both classified as sports tourers and have similar power/acceleration but the BMW errs towards the sporty side in terms of handling and riding position whereas the vfr is balanced more towards the touring side. So again I would say the vfr would be my choice as a commuter machine but it still has the flexibility for longer trips or fast riding on country roads.
Hooli said:
That shouldn't kill a box if you're doing it right. I do the same on my GSX14 & that's ticked over 100k with no gearbox issues. I think these days I only use the clutch for pulling away, changing between 1st & 2nd (or back down) and when ragging it as I can't clutchless downshift smoothly at high revs.
Agreed, it was a failing on the part of the selector fork coating, and a poor quality bearing where the race had become badly pitted, leading to failure.RizzoTheRat said:
If you're considering a VFR1200 then it might also be worth looking at the K1300S as a pretty capable long distance sports tourer.
I currently commute into London on my K1300S. I do a total of 75 miles each way which is mixed between country A and B roads, motorway and town roads. It's superb for the job. Comfortable and quick. I change the ESA between comfort, normal and sport a few times in each journey according to the road conditions and how I want to ride. I can filter as well as any bike bigger than a moped and regularly catch other bikes up when filtering. While it’s not a light weight it’s not bad either with a low CoG and a seat height that lets me get both feet flat on the floor.For touring it has hard luggage that is easy to fit/remove, does 50mpg, 200 miles to a tank and pulls top gear from 25mph to 175mph without batting an eyelid.
For sports riding it’s a quick on the road a pretty much any sports bike, having decent power and torque but the ESA allows it to use that power on a number of different road surfaces that would have sports bikes struggling. The handling is solid and secure with the “funny front end” allowing the rider to take some pretty serious liberties with regards to late hard braking.
Horse power wont be the defining factor (to a point). If the thing can do 120mph, Im happy. If its gets to 100 ok and wheezes slightly to 120 but does other things well, thats still ok. So horsepower schmorsepower.
I couldnt ride a TDM. Its capability would in no way compensate for its looks. Being given to me for free couldnt compensate for the way it looks. Same with the V-strom and the Varadero, all designed by the same blind man I think.
I couldnt ride a TDM. Its capability would in no way compensate for its looks. Being given to me for free couldnt compensate for the way it looks. Same with the V-strom and the Varadero, all designed by the same blind man I think.
black-k1 said:
RizzoTheRat said:
If you're considering a VFR1200 then it might also be worth looking at the K1300S as a pretty capable long distance sports tourer.
I currently commute into London on my K1300S. I do a total of 75 miles each way which is mixed between country A and B roads, motorway and town roads. It's superb for the job. Comfortable and quick. I change the ESA between comfort, normal and sport a few times in each journey according to the road conditions and how I want to ride. I can filter as well as any bike bigger than a moped and regularly catch other bikes up when filtering. While it’s not a light weight it’s not bad either with a low CoG and a seat height that lets me get both feet flat on the floor.For touring it has hard luggage that is easy to fit/remove, does 50mpg, 200 miles to a tank and pulls top gear from 25mph to 175mph without batting an eyelid.
For sports riding it’s a quick on the road a pretty much any sports bike, having decent power and torque but the ESA allows it to use that power on a number of different road surfaces that would have sports bikes struggling. The handling is solid and secure with the “funny front end” allowing the rider to take some pretty serious liberties with regards to late hard braking.
I'm on my fifth GS now and commute most days in the traffic.
The bike isn't really too wide - you could use a top box instead of panniers, but the bars are probably just as wide, maybe a tad wider. I filter on mine each day with few problems.
Comfortable seat with brilliant all round visibility. You can see over most of the traffic.
Great mirrors and good storage.
Pretty good at low speed, shaft drive so little maintenance.
They might not be a sports bike but a well ridden one will keep up with most stuff on the open road.
Try one for a decent test ride on all the types of road used on your commute.
The bike isn't really too wide - you could use a top box instead of panniers, but the bars are probably just as wide, maybe a tad wider. I filter on mine each day with few problems.
Comfortable seat with brilliant all round visibility. You can see over most of the traffic.
Great mirrors and good storage.
Pretty good at low speed, shaft drive so little maintenance.
They might not be a sports bike but a well ridden one will keep up with most stuff on the open road.
Try one for a decent test ride on all the types of road used on your commute.
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