RE: MotoGP Assen: PH2
Discussion
At the end of the day: We big MM up when he takes #1 and wins the WC. But where is he now? As of Assen, he is #4, 74 points behind Rossi.
What's the excuse? Bike? Rider? Or maybe... he is just not as good as some worshipped him when he had the far superior bike? Surely if he were that great, then he'd still be winning when the bikes have parity as they are this year?
I was impressed with MM's talent the last 2 years... but the more I see of his irrational and erratic performances this year, I am impressed even more by VR's accomplishments.
What's the excuse? Bike? Rider? Or maybe... he is just not as good as some worshipped him when he had the far superior bike? Surely if he were that great, then he'd still be winning when the bikes have parity as they are this year?
I was impressed with MM's talent the last 2 years... but the more I see of his irrational and erratic performances this year, I am impressed even more by VR's accomplishments.
After MM performance at the weekend on the 2014 chassis i think its pretty clear he is 'back' and that the bike is / was the biggest issue.
If he quit now he'd still hold many records for years to come that may never be broken and he's ony 22 and in his 3rd Moto gp season.
Yes he got out thought and 'played' by VR at the weekend but VR does have a good few years experience on him and i think he'll hand it to VR at least once before the seasons out.
Just hope its once VR has the title in the bag
If he quit now he'd still hold many records for years to come that may never be broken and he's ony 22 and in his 3rd Moto gp season.
Yes he got out thought and 'played' by VR at the weekend but VR does have a good few years experience on him and i think he'll hand it to VR at least once before the seasons out.
Just hope its once VR has the title in the bag
spareparts said:
D200 said:
This. What a ridiculous statement, on so many levels. For a start MM won the MotoGP title in his rookie year, something that even Rossi couldn’t do. Then he broke so many records during the year – plus he was only 20. Then he won another title back to back, again, breaking many more records. At this stage in his career he is better than Rossi. He has done more than Rossi [against higher competition including against Rossi himself – esp if Rossi is considered the GOAT plus vs Lorenzo [who beat Rossi more than Rossi beat him who also has to be considered one of the all-time great talents]. What does MM have to do to make you think he is something other than a ‘work in progress’? Win every motoGP race he ever enters on any bike and win every title from now until 2025? Bonkers beyond belief.
What is bonkers beyond belief is that you think MM is not a work in progress.MM has immense talent and won the championship during the years when he had BY FAR the best bike in the paddock. Now that the bikes from Yam, HRC, and even Ducati are far more evenly matched, we are starting to see a better picture of how good MM really is as a rider against the other few aliens. No doubt about it - MM is one of the top 3 aliens. But he has been schooled on more than one occasion this season, and he appears to sometimes be his own enemy. One thing is for certain: neither VR nor JL are afraid of him. They know his weaknesses and are exposing him - both on track and even in the paddock.
That's not the same as work in progress, he won 2 titles in record breaking fashion in his first 2 years in MotoGP against 2 of the best riders even in JL and VR, if that's a work in progress we I don't know.
Don't forget VR has been on top works bikes in motogp this last 15 years and he is still learning and adjusting as he said himself. He has had a renaissance this last 2 years and MotoGP is all the better for it. And it's all the better for MM also.
To say MM has been 'schooled' is rediculious.
Was Rossi completely 'schooled' this last 5 years by JL,CS and MM?
No, he was just beaten fair and square.
You are saying Rossi isn't scared of MM. Well of course he isn't, who said he was. It's more a credit to MM that he wasn't/isn't scared of JL and MM.
No one is infallible in MotoGP, neither MM or RR
spareparts said:
At the end of the day: We big MM up when he takes #1 and wins the WC. But where is he now? As of Assen, he is #4, 74 points behind Rossi.
What's the excuse? Bike? Rider? Or maybe... he is just not as good as some worshipped him when he had the far superior bike? Surely if he were that great, then he'd still be winning when the bikes have parity as they are this year?
I was impressed with MM's talent the last 2 years... but the more I see of his irrational and erratic performances this year, I am impressed even more by VR's accomplishments.
Of course people will big him up when he blitzes the best riders in the toughest motorcycle championship in his Rookie year. Then wins another title back to back in record breaking fashion.What's the excuse? Bike? Rider? Or maybe... he is just not as good as some worshipped him when he had the far superior bike? Surely if he were that great, then he'd still be winning when the bikes have parity as they are this year?
I was impressed with MM's talent the last 2 years... but the more I see of his irrational and erratic performances this year, I am impressed even more by VR's accomplishments.
If Rossi wins this year he too should be 'bigged up', as he should be bigged up for all the titles he won, he is an amazing talent. But, he isn't the only amazing talent motoGP has even seen.
Don't forget that Rossi was beaten by JL in 2010 on the same bike. And then Rossi only just pipped CS, who was on the Ducati, to which then Rossi went to thinking it was the best bike by miles and CS couldn't ride it properly, only to usually finish around 7th to 10th
Much the same in 2012.
Rossi was beaten in 2013 by MM and also JL who was on the same bike
Then in 2014 MM won again easily
But God forbid anyone who 'bigs up' anyone but Rossi
It's hard to compare riders against other riders when they all haven't competed for an equal amount of time on identical machinery
CS, for the time he was in motoGP was more successfull than Rossi, and a lot of it on a Ducati, and we know what happened when Rossi went to Ducati
And the same with JL, he has beaten Rossi much more than Rossi beat him
And now MM has beaten both VR and JL, this is impressive
I think they [VR, JL, CS and MM] are all super talented, but I wouldn't say one is vastly better than all the others - as previously stated you can't directly compare them as they competed on different bikes for different amount of time...
D200 said:
spareparts said:
D200 said:
This. What a ridiculous statement, on so many levels. For a start MM won the MotoGP title in his rookie year, something that even Rossi couldn’t do. Then he broke so many records during the year – plus he was only 20. Then he won another title back to back, again, breaking many more records. At this stage in his career he is better than Rossi. He has done more than Rossi [against higher competition including against Rossi himself – esp if Rossi is considered the GOAT plus vs Lorenzo [who beat Rossi more than Rossi beat him who also has to be considered one of the all-time great talents]. What does MM have to do to make you think he is something other than a ‘work in progress’? Win every motoGP race he ever enters on any bike and win every title from now until 2025? Bonkers beyond belief.
What is bonkers beyond belief is that you think MM is not a work in progress.MM has immense talent and won the championship during the years when he had BY FAR the best bike in the paddock. Now that the bikes from Yam, HRC, and even Ducati are far more evenly matched, we are starting to see a better picture of how good MM really is as a rider against the other few aliens. No doubt about it - MM is one of the top 3 aliens. But he has been schooled on more than one occasion this season, and he appears to sometimes be his own enemy. One thing is for certain: neither VR nor JL are afraid of him. They know his weaknesses and are exposing him - both on track and even in the paddock.
That's not the same as work in progress, he won 2 titles in record breaking fashion in his first 2 years in MotoGP against 2 of the best riders even in JL and VR, if that's a work in progress we I don't know.
Don't forget VR has been on top works bikes in motogp this last 15 years and he is still learning and adjusting as he said himself. He has had a renaissance this last 2 years and MotoGP is all the better for it. And it's all the better for MM also.
To say MM has been 'schooled' is rediculious.
Was Rossi completely 'schooled' this last 5 years by JL,CS and MM?
No, he was just beaten fair and square.
You are saying Rossi isn't scared of MM. Well of course he isn't, who said he was. It's more a credit to MM that he wasn't/isn't scared of JL and MM.
No one is infallible in MotoGP, neither MM or RR
Reardy Mister said:
D200 said:
spareparts said:
D200 said:
This. What a ridiculous statement, on so many levels. For a start MM won the MotoGP title in his rookie year, something that even Rossi couldn’t d?rdo. Then he broke so many records during the year – plus he was only 20. Then he won another title back to back, again, breaking many more records. At this stage in his career he is better than Rossi. He has done more than Rossi [against higher competition including against Rossi himself – esp if Rossi is considered the GOAT plus vs Lorenzo [who beat Rossi more than Rossi beat him who also has to be considered one of the all-time great talents]. What does MM have to do to make you think he is something other than a ‘work in progress’? Win every motoGP race he ever enters on any bike and win every title from now until 2025? Bonkers beyond belief.
What is bonkers beyond belief is that you think MM is not a work in progress.MM has immense talent and won the championship during the years when he had BY FAR the best bike in the paddock. Now that the bikes from Yam, HRC, and even Ducati are far more evenly matched, we are starting to see a better picture of how good MM really is as a rider against the other few aliens. No doubt about it - MM is one of the top 3 aliens. But he has been schooled on more than one occasion this season, and he appears to sometimes be his own enemy. One thing is for certain: neither VR nor JL are afraid of him. They know his weaknesses and are exposing him - both on track and even in the paddock.
That's not the same as work in progress, he won 2 titles in record breaking fashion in his first 2 years in MotoGP against 2 of the best riders even in JL and VR, if that's a work in progress we I don't know.
Don't forget VR has been on top works bikes in motogp this last 15 years and he is still learning and adjusting as he said himself. He has had a renaissance this last 2 years and MotoGP is all the better for it. And it's all the better for MM also.
To say MM has been 'schooled' is rediculious.
Was Rossi completely 'schooled' this last 5 years by JL,CS and MM?
No, he was just beaten fair and square.
You are saying Rossi isn't scared of MM. Well of course he isn't, who said he was. It's more a credit to MM that he wasn't/isn't scared of JL and MM.
No one is infallible in MotoGP, neither MM or RR
You are implying mm isn't all that good was schooled by many, only won as he had best bike by FAR etc but I personally think he is more than good
By that same analogy vr is a work in progress.
If that's your opinion then it's a pointless statement as everybody is a work in progress
D200 said:
Reardy Mister said:
D200 said:
spareparts said:
D200 said:
This. What a ridiculous statement, on so many levels. For a start MM won the MotoGP title in his rookie year, something that even Rossi couldn’t d?rdo. Then he broke so many records during the year – plus he was only 20. Then he won another title back to back, again, breaking many more records. At this stage in his career he is better than Rossi. He has done more than Rossi [against higher competition including against Rossi himself – esp if Rossi is considered the GOAT plus vs Lorenzo [who beat Rossi more than Rossi beat him who also has to be considered one of the all-time great talents]. What does MM have to do to make you think he is something other than a ‘work in progress’? Win every motoGP race he ever enters on any bike and win every title from now until 2025? Bonkers beyond belief.
What is bonkers beyond belief is that you think MM is not a work in progress.MM has immense talent and won the championship during the years when he had BY FAR the best bike in the paddock. Now that the bikes from Yam, HRC, and even Ducati are far more evenly matched, we are starting to see a better picture of how good MM really is as a rider against the other few aliens. No doubt about it - MM is one of the top 3 aliens. But he has been schooled on more than one occasion this season, and he appears to sometimes be his own enemy. One thing is for certain: neither VR nor JL are afraid of him. They know his weaknesses and are exposing him - both on track and even in the paddock.
That's not the same as work in progress, he won 2 titles in record breaking fashion in his first 2 years in MotoGP against 2 of the best riders even in JL and VR, if that's a work in progress we I don't know.
Don't forget VR has been on top works bikes in motogp this last 15 years and he is still learning and adjusting as he said himself. He has had a renaissance this last 2 years and MotoGP is all the better for it. And it's all the better for MM also.
To say MM has been 'schooled' is rediculious.
Was Rossi completely 'schooled' this last 5 years by JL,CS and MM?
No, he was just beaten fair and square.
You are saying Rossi isn't scared of MM. Well of course he isn't, who said he was. It's more a credit to MM that he wasn't/isn't scared of JL and MM.
No one is infallible in MotoGP, neither MM or RR
You are implying mm isn't all that good was schooled by many, only won as he had best bike by FAR etc but I personally think he is more than good
By that same analogy vr is a work in progress.
If that's your opinion then it's a pointless statement as everybody is a work in progress
I'm going to go outside and shoot myself in the face.
D200 said:
If Rossi wins this year he too should be 'bigged up', as he should be bigged up for all the titles he won, he is an amazing talent. But, he isn't the only amazing talent motoGP has even seen.
....
[lots of lick MM's anus activity here]
....
D200, your love for MM is without a doubt. ....
[lots of lick MM's anus activity here]
....
VR does not need 'bigging up' at all given his achievements as a MotoGP rider throughout a fabled career. He was already riding a bike competitively when MM was still soiling his nappies.
You are remarkably nonchalant/dismissive of VR and appear to disregard his current form as a 36yo in comparison to a 5th place rider.
Putting your thoughts on VR aside, this is the point being made:
At the end of the day, we'll see how good MM is at the end of this 2015 given their form. The Honda and Yam is pretty close this year, and it's only now that we get to see how good they are... relative to each other.
spareparts said:
D200 said:
If Rossi wins this year he too should be 'bigged up', as he should be bigged up for all the titles he won, he is an amazing talent. But, he isn't the only amazing talent motoGP has even seen.
....
[lots of lick MM's anus activity here]
....
D200, your love for MM is without a doubt. ....
[lots of lick MM's anus activity here]
....
VR does not need 'bigging up' at all given his achievements as a MotoGP rider throughout a fabled career. He was already riding a bike competitively when MM was still soiling his nappies.
You are remarkably nonchalant/dismissive of VR and appear to disregard his current form as a 36yo in comparison to a 5th place rider.
Putting your thoughts on VR aside, this is the point being made:
At the end of the day, we'll see how good MM is at the end of this 2015 given their form. The Honda and Yam is pretty close this year, and it's only now that we get to see how good they are... relative to each other.
But to end this silly pointless discussion I now concur that:
VR is the best rider there ever was, ever will be.
He is 100 million times better then everyone who ever had the cheek to enter motoGP and race against him, fools
All the bikes he ever won any race on were inferior slow heaps with square wheels and so on
If he was ever beaten by anyone – but especially CS, JL and MM – it was a fluke [or rather a series of flukes] and SOLELY because their bikes were massively faster.
And MM is completely useless, much schooled, overrated, unimpressive, erratic fraud who fluked his way to 2 back to back titles in his rookie year on a bike that was a good 5 seconds a lap faster than any other bike in the entire grid
What will poor you do when VR retires, stop watching motoGP no doubt as it’s a pointless exercise without VR. But don’t answer as I done care, you’ll no doubt only watch TOWIE from then on.
Reardy Mister said:
Moving on, what do we make of Jack Miller's performance so far? I was in the "He'll be fine, watch him go" camp but he is unquestionably struggling.
Too much too soon?
Yeah, it’s hard to know, not everyone is as good as MM and can win the title in their rookie year Too much too soon?
Edited by Reardy Mister on Wednesday 1st July 16:03
But in all seriousness, the prod RCV he is on is VERY uncompetitive, and no one is doing too well on it, so maybe a bit harsh to judge him on this performance on that bike.
I see he did come 11th in Spain this year, while 11th doesn’t sound too good it’s about as good as you could expect him to do, top 10 would be like winning
Although a year on Moto2 would have done him no harm
But you need a satellite or works bike to shine in MotoGP
Reardy Mister said:
Moving on, what do we make of Jack Miller's performance so far? I was in the "He'll be fine, watch him go" camp but he is unquestionably struggling.
Too much too soon?
Thought he'd be OK at best, but Moto3 to MotoGP is a massive step. Too much too soon?
Edited by Reardy Mister on Wednesday 1st July 16:03
Guess CWR got a huge volume discount on fairings for this years riders though
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