RSV4 rough running
Discussion
As I may have mentioned at the time, I bought a 2009 RSV4 Factory about a month ago. I bought it privately from a bloke who hadn't ridden the bike for about 8 months as his son tragically died in a bike accident and he couldn't bring himself to ride his bike again. Since then I've had a few minor issues such as a binding rear brake and leaking rocker gaskets. Those issues have been sorted, however, I've now got another issue which I'm hoping you knowledgable chaps can offer some advice on!
Basically the smoothness on and off the throttle isn't there, when you begin to open the throttle it doesn't come in smoothly, it's all or nothing and it doesn't feel as sharp and responsive as it should, you have to wind the throttle a lot more than you should have to, it just feels like it's running a little rougher than it should. I have a friend who also has an 09 RSV4F and I've ridden both bikes back to back and his is so much smoother and nicer to ride. I'm hoping it's as simple as a duff sensor or leaky air pipe but before I start prodding around i thought if ask on here. It's just had an oil/filter change at aprilia and curiously they put 5w40 oil in which I thought was for the later bikes, and filled the oil right up to the top of the sight glass which I thought was a little high but there we go. The bike had new plugs last August too. It's a standard bike aside from an Austin racing pipe and I don't believe it's has the ECU fiddled with to suit, so that's another possible cause? I'm tempted to put the OEM pipe on to see if it makes a difference.
I've put some Wynns fuel injector cleaner in tonight and topped up with fuel so I'll see if that helps over the coming days
So, any ideas folks?
Cheers in advance
Dave
Basically the smoothness on and off the throttle isn't there, when you begin to open the throttle it doesn't come in smoothly, it's all or nothing and it doesn't feel as sharp and responsive as it should, you have to wind the throttle a lot more than you should have to, it just feels like it's running a little rougher than it should. I have a friend who also has an 09 RSV4F and I've ridden both bikes back to back and his is so much smoother and nicer to ride. I'm hoping it's as simple as a duff sensor or leaky air pipe but before I start prodding around i thought if ask on here. It's just had an oil/filter change at aprilia and curiously they put 5w40 oil in which I thought was for the later bikes, and filled the oil right up to the top of the sight glass which I thought was a little high but there we go. The bike had new plugs last August too. It's a standard bike aside from an Austin racing pipe and I don't believe it's has the ECU fiddled with to suit, so that's another possible cause? I'm tempted to put the OEM pipe on to see if it makes a difference.
I've put some Wynns fuel injector cleaner in tonight and topped up with fuel so I'll see if that helps over the coming days
So, any ideas folks?
Cheers in advance
Dave
Yes, the exhaust is likely to be the cause I'd expect, the AR items are pretty much just short open pipes, the fueling would need to be adjusted to suit.
I've got an old carbed GSX-R with a Scorpion can, with the baffle in, it rides completely fine, with the baffle out the removal of the restriction gives it a flat spot when pulling away up to 3000rpm, then it overcomes the flat spot with a surge, just something I ride around now as the sound is more than worth it.
I've got an old carbed GSX-R with a Scorpion can, with the baffle in, it rides completely fine, with the baffle out the removal of the restriction gives it a flat spot when pulling away up to 3000rpm, then it overcomes the flat spot with a surge, just something I ride around now as the sound is more than worth it.
While putting the later spec oil in it isn't ideal, the fact it's filled to the top of the sight glass is a huge no no.
The earlier engines weren't great for crankcase ventilation and if it's over filled there's a good chance it's been blowing oil into the airbox. If it's pumping oil into the airbox there's a good chance that the plugs are fouled. This could be affecting the running, as well as the crankcase over pressure from being overfilled.
As for the exhaust, does it have the flapper valve still fitted or is it a full system?
A different pipe might make it run a bit lean but I doubt it'd be so rough like you're seeing.
There's a very useful diagnosis tool available called Guzzidiag. You can download it for free and the cable is a couple of quid. Well worth the effort. Go visit the AF1 RSV4 forum for more info.
The earlier engines weren't great for crankcase ventilation and if it's over filled there's a good chance it's been blowing oil into the airbox. If it's pumping oil into the airbox there's a good chance that the plugs are fouled. This could be affecting the running, as well as the crankcase over pressure from being overfilled.
As for the exhaust, does it have the flapper valve still fitted or is it a full system?
A different pipe might make it run a bit lean but I doubt it'd be so rough like you're seeing.
There's a very useful diagnosis tool available called Guzzidiag. You can download it for free and the cable is a couple of quid. Well worth the effort. Go visit the AF1 RSV4 forum for more info.
Thanks guys. To answer a few questions,
A) It's only a tail pipe and link pipe not a full system
B) I queried the oil level with the dealer and they were adamant that it should pretty much right up to the top so just a bubble of air is visible. Come to think of it, when they initially advised me of this (pre oil change) and I topped it up, that's around the time it began to run rough. They also stated that aprilia advise all model years now should have 5/40 oil. Is this likely to have caused any internal damage? Could I switch to 15/50 now? I asked them and they said it may effect the clutch to switch.
C)I posted the same question on an aprilia forum and guzzidiag was recommended then too so I plan to get it
Thanks for all the help, I'll drop the oil level first of all. Where should the level be on the sight glass - half way?
Cheers
Dave
A) It's only a tail pipe and link pipe not a full system
B) I queried the oil level with the dealer and they were adamant that it should pretty much right up to the top so just a bubble of air is visible. Come to think of it, when they initially advised me of this (pre oil change) and I topped it up, that's around the time it began to run rough. They also stated that aprilia advise all model years now should have 5/40 oil. Is this likely to have caused any internal damage? Could I switch to 15/50 now? I asked them and they said it may effect the clutch to switch.
C)I posted the same question on an aprilia forum and guzzidiag was recommended then too so I plan to get it
Thanks for all the help, I'll drop the oil level first of all. Where should the level be on the sight glass - half way?
Cheers
Dave
Dave,
The manual gives a good description of how to check the oil. Basically you need to run the bike to temperature and then switch off. Wait a few minutes and check the level. Somewhere between the mid amd upper lines is fine.
Get the Guzzidiag downloaded and the correct lead from eBay and have a look.
Might be worth checking out the air filter as well.
If you have a link pipe system is the flapper valve removed?
I'm not sure about all models using the thinner oil but maybe worth checking with Aprilia UK directly.
With the Guzzidiag though you can check out the throttle calibration etc and check for alarms so it's the best 10 quid you can spend
The manual gives a good description of how to check the oil. Basically you need to run the bike to temperature and then switch off. Wait a few minutes and check the level. Somewhere between the mid amd upper lines is fine.
Get the Guzzidiag downloaded and the correct lead from eBay and have a look.
Might be worth checking out the air filter as well.
If you have a link pipe system is the flapper valve removed?
I'm not sure about all models using the thinner oil but maybe worth checking with Aprilia UK directly.
With the Guzzidiag though you can check out the throttle calibration etc and check for alarms so it's the best 10 quid you can spend
Thanks, I'll do that. I'd imagine with the engine warm a fair bit of oil will be around the engine so a 'cold' reading might not be far off where it is. I'll give it a go.
Re exhaust the only thing removed from the bike is the standard end can so I assume the exhaust valve is still present
Re exhaust the only thing removed from the bike is the standard end can so I assume the exhaust valve is still present
You should be able to see the valve. It's down on the main pipe just inside the belly pan on the right side. I think it should cycle when you turn the key.
It should then open either when you put it in gear or when you get above a certain speed. Aprilia changed the operation so I can't be sure.
Chat to Amuri, Ed or Micah on the AF1 forum for more detailed information. Amuri is a wealth of information. Well worth a message
It should then open either when you put it in gear or when you get above a certain speed. Aprilia changed the operation so I can't be sure.
Chat to Amuri, Ed or Micah on the AF1 forum for more detailed information. Amuri is a wealth of information. Well worth a message
Bass - yeah I'm pretty sure the exhaust valve is still there but I'll check. Whether it's functioning properly or not I don't know.
Loon - you may well be right, and it wasn't my first thought as to the cause of the issue but if the dealer has overfilled the oil it makes sense the bike may be struggling to deal with the extra pressure caused by this. It's also a simple check before I start pulling the bike apart and checking sensors
Loon - you may well be right, and it wasn't my first thought as to the cause of the issue but if the dealer has overfilled the oil it makes sense the bike may be struggling to deal with the extra pressure caused by this. It's also a simple check before I start pulling the bike apart and checking sensors
Right, I've checked a few things and would be interested in opinions:
1) tested oil level when warm as detailed in the manual - level is right at the top with just a bubble of air showing. Will remove some when I get a minute.
2) used guzzidiag to redo the throttle and handle learning in case it was a simple software issue. No change.
3) checked the exhaust valve - it whirs on ignition on but does not move. I removed the end can and checked it with engine off and running in neutral - stays OPEN at all times (at least that's how it looks, looks like a flat disc and is horizontal)
4) refitted OEM end can. Hard to say if it felt different, certainly quieter! Lol
any thoughts? I'm particularly interested re the exhaust valve as this could well be the reason for the symptoms could it not?
cheers
Dave
1) tested oil level when warm as detailed in the manual - level is right at the top with just a bubble of air showing. Will remove some when I get a minute.
2) used guzzidiag to redo the throttle and handle learning in case it was a simple software issue. No change.
3) checked the exhaust valve - it whirs on ignition on but does not move. I removed the end can and checked it with engine off and running in neutral - stays OPEN at all times (at least that's how it looks, looks like a flat disc and is horizontal)
4) refitted OEM end can. Hard to say if it felt different, certainly quieter! Lol
any thoughts? I'm particularly interested re the exhaust valve as this could well be the reason for the symptoms could it not?
cheers
Dave
Mad Dave said:
Right, I've checked a few things and would be interested in opinions:
1) tested oil level when warm as detailed in the manual - level is right at the top with just a bubble of air showing. Will remove some when I get a minute.
2) used guzzidiag to redo the throttle and handle learning in case it was a simple software issue. No change.
3) checked the exhaust valve - it whirs on ignition on but does not move. I removed the end can and checked it with engine off and running in neutral - stays OPEN at all times (at least that's how it looks, looks like a flat disc and is horizontal)
4) refitted OEM end can. Hard to say if it felt different, certainly quieter! Lol
any thoughts? I'm particularly interested re the exhaust valve as this could well be the reason for the symptoms could it not?
cheers
Dave
1. Get the oil level down, they don't like it too high. Ideally it wants to be just above the bottom line adjacent to the sight glass after following the manuals procedure.1) tested oil level when warm as detailed in the manual - level is right at the top with just a bubble of air showing. Will remove some when I get a minute.
2) used guzzidiag to redo the throttle and handle learning in case it was a simple software issue. No change.
3) checked the exhaust valve - it whirs on ignition on but does not move. I removed the end can and checked it with engine off and running in neutral - stays OPEN at all times (at least that's how it looks, looks like a flat disc and is horizontal)
4) refitted OEM end can. Hard to say if it felt different, certainly quieter! Lol
any thoughts? I'm particularly interested re the exhaust valve as this could well be the reason for the symptoms could it not?
cheers
Dave
2. The valve should open and close on key on I believe. If it's open, ie NOT obstructing the pipe then that's not the problem
If you can see past the valve your problem lies elsewhere I suspect
Edited by bass gt3 on Saturday 4th July 15:22
Firstly, thanks for all the advice, bass-gt3 in particular
I dropped some of the oil out today, in total I removed a little over 250ml. It now shows between the half and full on the sight glass when cold, I've not checked it fully hot yet but I doesn't seem to make a lot of difference the other times I've compared hot/cold. The only oddity was after I finished dropping some oil (via sump plug) I had the red warning triangle light on and SERVICE on the dash. I checked the dash errors and saw a Memo error for DSB08. I've seen this error once before and when cleared it didn't come back. I cleared this error and rode it round the block and it ran fine, in fact all the harshness on/off throttle was gone and it felt a whole lot better. It still had SERVICE on the dash though so plugged it into Guzzidiag and it showed the following STORED errors:
U1701 No Signal
U1601 Invalid Signal
I've cleared these and the bike now starts up with no errors. Any idea what they mean? I did notice whilst doing the oil that the reason the exhaust valve is open is the top cable is completely snapped off at the exhaust end, but all the servos etc whir away still, and I didn't have an error before so I can't imagine it's that!
I dropped some of the oil out today, in total I removed a little over 250ml. It now shows between the half and full on the sight glass when cold, I've not checked it fully hot yet but I doesn't seem to make a lot of difference the other times I've compared hot/cold. The only oddity was after I finished dropping some oil (via sump plug) I had the red warning triangle light on and SERVICE on the dash. I checked the dash errors and saw a Memo error for DSB08. I've seen this error once before and when cleared it didn't come back. I cleared this error and rode it round the block and it ran fine, in fact all the harshness on/off throttle was gone and it felt a whole lot better. It still had SERVICE on the dash though so plugged it into Guzzidiag and it showed the following STORED errors:
U1701 No Signal
U1601 Invalid Signal
I've cleared these and the bike now starts up with no errors. Any idea what they mean? I did notice whilst doing the oil that the reason the exhaust valve is open is the top cable is completely snapped off at the exhaust end, but all the servos etc whir away still, and I didn't have an error before so I can't imagine it's that!
Mad Dave said:
Firstly, thanks for all the advice, bass-gt3 in particular
I dropped some of the oil out today, in total I removed a little over 250ml. It now shows between the half and full on the sight glass when cold, I've not checked it fully hot yet but I doesn't seem to make a lot of difference the other times I've compared hot/cold. The only oddity was after I finished dropping some oil (via sump plug) I had the red warning triangle light on and SERVICE on the dash. I checked the dash errors and saw a Memo error for DSB08. I've seen this error once before and when cleared it didn't come back. I cleared this error and rode it round the block and it ran fine, in fact all the harshness on/off throttle was gone and it felt a whole lot better. It still had SERVICE on the dash though so plugged it into Guzzidiag and it showed the following STORED errors:
U1701 No Signal
U1601 Invalid Signal
I've cleared these and the bike now starts up with no errors. Any idea what they mean? I did notice whilst doing the oil that the reason the exhaust valve is open is the top cable is completely snapped off at the exhaust end, but all the servos etc whir away still, and I didn't have an error before so I can't imagine it's that!
Pleasure to help mate, us RSV4 owners need to take care of each other I dropped some of the oil out today, in total I removed a little over 250ml. It now shows between the half and full on the sight glass when cold, I've not checked it fully hot yet but I doesn't seem to make a lot of difference the other times I've compared hot/cold. The only oddity was after I finished dropping some oil (via sump plug) I had the red warning triangle light on and SERVICE on the dash. I checked the dash errors and saw a Memo error for DSB08. I've seen this error once before and when cleared it didn't come back. I cleared this error and rode it round the block and it ran fine, in fact all the harshness on/off throttle was gone and it felt a whole lot better. It still had SERVICE on the dash though so plugged it into Guzzidiag and it showed the following STORED errors:
U1701 No Signal
U1601 Invalid Signal
I've cleared these and the bike now starts up with no errors. Any idea what they mean? I did notice whilst doing the oil that the reason the exhaust valve is open is the top cable is completely snapped off at the exhaust end, but all the servos etc whir away still, and I didn't have an error before so I can't imagine it's that!
So you dropped the oil and the rough running seems to have cleared?? Funny hey !
As for the errors, Amuri or the AF1 guys on the AF1 forum would be the best place to ask, might be a clue as to what's been playing up.
As for the servo cable, if the valve is open, I wouldn't worry too much. As long as it's open that's what matters.
Out of interest can you point me to the lead you bought for the Guzzidiag. I need to get one really and see if they'll ship to SA!!
bass gt3 said:
Pleasure to help mate, us RSV4 owners need to take care of each other
So you dropped the oil and the rough running seems to have cleared?? Funny hey !
As for the errors, Amuri or the AF1 guys on the AF1 forum would be the best place to ask, might be a clue as to what's been playing up.
As for the servo cable, if the valve is open, I wouldn't worry too much. As long as it's open that's what matters.
Out of interest can you point me to the lead you bought for the Guzzidiag. I need to get one really and see if they'll ship to SA!!
If they don't i'm sure somebody on here will !So you dropped the oil and the rough running seems to have cleared?? Funny hey !
As for the errors, Amuri or the AF1 guys on the AF1 forum would be the best place to ask, might be a clue as to what's been playing up.
As for the servo cable, if the valve is open, I wouldn't worry too much. As long as it's open that's what matters.
Out of interest can you point me to the lead you bought for the Guzzidiag. I need to get one really and see if they'll ship to SA!!
The cable I bought was this one: http://www.lonelec.co.uk/index.php?main_page=produ...
It's not the cheapest but it works well, all the eBay ones are Chinese copies.
If they don't ship to SA let me know and ill happily make the run to the post office to post it to you.
Re the oil, yeah, it's uncanny. I'm amazed and approved dealer could get it so wrong but it appears they did!
Thanks again for all the help
It's not the cheapest but it works well, all the eBay ones are Chinese copies.
If they don't ship to SA let me know and ill happily make the run to the post office to post it to you.
Re the oil, yeah, it's uncanny. I'm amazed and approved dealer could get it so wrong but it appears they did!
Thanks again for all the help
Just checked their website again and it's good news:
"International Sales
We sell internationally but some countries are not covered. Upon checkout, if there are no delivery options available, we don't serve that country yet but please contact us and we may be able to help. We now sell to South Africa using lower cost International Signed For shipping"
"International Sales
We sell internationally but some countries are not covered. Upon checkout, if there are no delivery options available, we don't serve that country yet but please contact us and we may be able to help. We now sell to South Africa using lower cost International Signed For shipping"
Sorry to drag this topic up again but the fault isn't quite as fixed as I thought. It's very odd - when the bike is cold it runs rough as described but this lasts until the bike is switched off when warm (I often fill up at a garage about 8 miles from home and this is when I noticed) and then restarted, then it's like a totally different bike, the harsh engine braking is gone and it runs so much smoother, it's very odd. It seems to be the process of restarting whilst it's warm that adjusts the running. I intend to fit a race Ecu to ensure the fuelling is all correct but I'm wondering if it's a sensor somewhere or something? Any suggestions?
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff