intermediate trackdayer vs jenny tinmouth...
Discussion
RemaL said:
I could not imagine being one of the people who think being at the back of BSB = "any intermediate TD rider could do it"
AS i'm not that stupid
You might not be but plenty are. Last week at Oulton there was a guy on a road 2006 GSXR1000. He's clearly listened to James Whithan about which gear to be in and where and when to turn in and was totally focussed on his ride. AS i'm not that stupid
I lapped him twice in every session.
He complained like mad and went home in a huff when it was suggested he move down a group or two. He was adamant his times were respectable
And the only ones overtaking him were top level racers.
LoonR1 said:
gwm said:
So all the b
ks about keeping corner entry speed is just that - you should just buy an RR and point and squirt like a pro?
If you've ever seen them braking close up before a corner you'll see how difficult that is. At Oulton they are changing up and still on full throttle where I start braking on the way into Hizzys. It's amazing to watch, especially at a circuit where you've ridden yourself. The speed with which they are on full throttle too, not just on the throttle is amazing. ks about keeping corner entry speed is just that - you should just buy an RR and point and squirt like a pro?Surprised no one has posted this considering the topic at hand.
Lee Costello vs Intermediate track day riders...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NPGVG4T_JA&fe...
And on a mostly standard bike.
Lee Costello vs Intermediate track day riders...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NPGVG4T_JA&fe...
And on a mostly standard bike.
Just decided to take 5 minutes to catch up with this thread, glad I didn't bother when it initially came up.
Totally agree with Dave Stewart (Hi Dave)
about all his point, I remember seeing a lot of the top talent now riding in club & national classes years ago, watching 'kids' riding so hard, fast, 100% commitment!
Actually, reading a lot of the comment on this thread, but not taking any point personally or as disparaging (I think the kinder view of 'less well educated' is appropriate), there's plenty of useful stuff to glean.
Perception is everything they say.
When we look at the data logging presented by MCN, we all perceive different things. Jenny's corner speed minima will I guess be down to trail braking harder & later into an apex, cranked lower and later than you could imagine (hence the lower minimum, but she's half a second up due to the higher speed & harder braking - I read the text), then releasing the brake, getting the bike stood up onto the fat part of the rear tyre as fast as she can (she's lighter and not as strong as a lot of the BSB rider, so probably at a bit of a disadvantage on a 1000) & gunning the throttle 100%.
It's saying to me, 'Quick' at BSB level (wherever on the grid) requires a complete adjustment to riding style as these are powerful beasts, with kit on them that you have to learn to use properly. This takes time, good data, good engineering, track time, rider awareness & feeling (requires good set up, track time). It also benefits massively when you're actually racing & I think Jenny has said the 'awareness' of what she's doing vs the other two Honda jockeys is helping her massively.
As an example of how technique and laptimes tell a story, I've been watching the difference between Gurner Sykes & J Rea Esq.
Same bike, probably similar but not same set up, totally different riding styles (IMO), very different race pace (albeit separated on the clock by so little 1/10's or 1/100's). Rea seems to have a looser (ex-motocross) style, where he seems to back it in more, using more back brake, gets less TC intervention out of corners somehow than TS, which seems to see his exit speeds a little higher. I see Sykes bike wanting to loft the front a lot more & I've seen what seems to be a very frustrated Sykes watching JR pull away, Misano springs to mind. However, round Donington, Sykes absolutely slaughtered Rea (relative) as his style seems to be a very very late, very hard entry on the brakes, get the bike turned and then bang the throttle open. Sykes seems to lean off the bike more & Rea seems to stick his head out a bit like Whit used to (long necked freak).
So what say ye angry punters of BB? I wont take offence, not matter how hard you try
One final point, MTB should not be allowed to join in this thread, or it'll go completely tits up in nano seconds & WWIII will break out
Better get some work done now, laters peeps.
Totally agree with Dave Stewart (Hi Dave)
about all his point, I remember seeing a lot of the top talent now riding in club & national classes years ago, watching 'kids' riding so hard, fast, 100% commitment!Actually, reading a lot of the comment on this thread, but not taking any point personally or as disparaging (I think the kinder view of 'less well educated' is appropriate), there's plenty of useful stuff to glean.
Perception is everything they say.
When we look at the data logging presented by MCN, we all perceive different things. Jenny's corner speed minima will I guess be down to trail braking harder & later into an apex, cranked lower and later than you could imagine (hence the lower minimum, but she's half a second up due to the higher speed & harder braking - I read the text), then releasing the brake, getting the bike stood up onto the fat part of the rear tyre as fast as she can (she's lighter and not as strong as a lot of the BSB rider, so probably at a bit of a disadvantage on a 1000) & gunning the throttle 100%.
It's saying to me, 'Quick' at BSB level (wherever on the grid) requires a complete adjustment to riding style as these are powerful beasts, with kit on them that you have to learn to use properly. This takes time, good data, good engineering, track time, rider awareness & feeling (requires good set up, track time). It also benefits massively when you're actually racing & I think Jenny has said the 'awareness' of what she's doing vs the other two Honda jockeys is helping her massively.
As an example of how technique and laptimes tell a story, I've been watching the difference between Gurner Sykes & J Rea Esq.
Same bike, probably similar but not same set up, totally different riding styles (IMO), very different race pace (albeit separated on the clock by so little 1/10's or 1/100's). Rea seems to have a looser (ex-motocross) style, where he seems to back it in more, using more back brake, gets less TC intervention out of corners somehow than TS, which seems to see his exit speeds a little higher. I see Sykes bike wanting to loft the front a lot more & I've seen what seems to be a very frustrated Sykes watching JR pull away, Misano springs to mind. However, round Donington, Sykes absolutely slaughtered Rea (relative) as his style seems to be a very very late, very hard entry on the brakes, get the bike turned and then bang the throttle open. Sykes seems to lean off the bike more & Rea seems to stick his head out a bit like Whit used to (long necked freak
).So what say ye angry punters of BB? I wont take offence, not matter how hard you try
One final point, MTB should not be allowed to join in this thread, or it'll go completely tits up in nano seconds & WWIII will break out
Better get some work done now, laters peeps.
Hilarious thread! I have raced against Jenny T few years back when she entered in the hottrax endurance, ive also been in the fast group with her at Silverstone gp, in both cases she left me completely for dead and in the race in question I was near the front! My last track day was couple of weeks ago at brands gp and fast group spaces were all gone so I entered in the inters group. Holy moly batman it was painful beyond description, riders painfully painfully slow, veering from one side of the track to the other, random line selection you name it. Fortunately the organisers allowed me to move up otherwise I would have called it a day for safety and I am leagues below bsb standard riders. Yes I think she would be better in stock 1000 or supersport 600 but anyone who can lap the TT nigh on 120mph deserves truck loads of respect but has riding ability, not to mention bravery, far beyond any of the numpties (myself included) you see week in and week out at trackdays.
Edited by PR36 on Wednesday 8th July 14:09
Only on the internet can a 'conversation'/thread/talking point that highlights with proof how good she(or any racer that it would of happened to track) is Compared to us normys be littered with comments trying to prove she is good. Isn't that just obvious.
I don't think there's even been a comment on this thread saying she's slow im faster or she shouldn't be in bsb yet there's loads that seem to be trying to prove/convince she is faster or she's good enough to be in bsb.
I either posted a thread or just a link to that Lee Costello inters group video when I first saw it for pretty much Exactly the same reason as this thread. Because it's amazing to physically see the difference between us and proper racers. not to prove anything.
People seem to need to fight her corner even though there's no real need as the proofs in the pudding. And im sure 99.9% of people people understand the gap from trackdayer to bab rider.
I don't think there's even been a comment on this thread saying she's slow im faster or she shouldn't be in bsb yet there's loads that seem to be trying to prove/convince she is faster or she's good enough to be in bsb.
I either posted a thread or just a link to that Lee Costello inters group video when I first saw it for pretty much Exactly the same reason as this thread. Because it's amazing to physically see the difference between us and proper racers. not to prove anything.
People seem to need to fight her corner even though there's no real need as the proofs in the pudding. And im sure 99.9% of people people understand the gap from trackdayer to bab rider.
Having experienced the gap between BSB riders and your average trackdayer, yes it's seismic. This was a few years ago when Hottrax randomly ran a day on the Silverstone International Circuit the week before BSB. So of course fast group was booked out with BSB/BSS racers getting a cheeky test in. I was braking as hard as I thought I could, when Peter Hickman comes flying past, back wheel in the air. Parks it on the apex and draws a big black line all the way through the corner exit. Supreme talent and commitment.
curlie467 said:
Is she riding?
I had to work so couldn't pop over.
Yeah she was and on good form too. Had a chat with her and she promised a few points this season in BSB, as long as I share the crate of beer with her!I had to work so couldn't pop over.
MTB should have a lot to say as she rode with him for most of the last session. Three laps he didn't know as she followed him, then she passed him and sat a few seconds in front and towed him along. I'll let him explain what happened in the last lap when she decided to clear off.
She had a couple of sessions where she wasn't instructing so just playing and on a completely standard road Blade with nothing touched including all the road kit, tyres and gearing she banged in consistent 1:43s ( give or take as it was my iPhone timing).
StuB said:
LoonR1 said:
neelyp said:
By an amazing coincidence he texted me to say he met Jenny at Oulton today.
She's still here today She was on good form and enjoying the day. 1:43 on a standard, untouched road Blade, kind of shows what can be done with a bit of talent eh
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