Trackdays and the lost art of having fun
Discussion
Lap times are not critical as there is no silverware (other than gold, silver, bronze cock awards), but they are a great reflection of a rider's ability to improve their skill and technique. Why get training? To ride smoother, better, safer, more in control... Faster! Anyone who says they're just lapping a race track for pure fun without any competitiveness or desire to go a bit quicker next lap has the biggest Liar's Cock award!! You gonna sit behind the rider in front for lap after lap or are you going to look to pass them? Grow a pair and admit it. You want to be in the fast fast group leading from the front elbow down and passing your mate in the braking zone hitting that apex...
It's all fun until it goes horribly wrong and the big fat book of racing excuses comes out. Stuffing it up the inside of your mate IS fun. Bragging about it in the pits part of the camaraderie. Laugh it all off at the after track over a pint. Those who get all serious have found their own limits and are probably annoyed they ain't getting faster, or they've lost the bottle. Throw in the keys man. Hang up the leathers.
If you want to go faster, why take instruction from a bunch of amateur wannabe cock waving Mavericks here on PH? Go get instruction from CSS, Ron Haslam, or some similar training school.
It's all fun until it goes horribly wrong and the big fat book of racing excuses comes out. Stuffing it up the inside of your mate IS fun. Bragging about it in the pits part of the camaraderie. Laugh it all off at the after track over a pint. Those who get all serious have found their own limits and are probably annoyed they ain't getting faster, or they've lost the bottle. Throw in the keys man. Hang up the leathers.
If you want to go faster, why take instruction from a bunch of amateur wannabe cock waving Mavericks here on PH? Go get instruction from CSS, Ron Haslam, or some similar training school.
neelyp said:
I can't remember reading about anyone getting stroppy about anyone being faster than them. 
Nor do I, but then again, nor do I remember anyone not having fun.People have had the odd bad day here, some more than most (yazza springs to mind) but everyone is having fun regardless of whether they are trackday/race veterans, plodders or people wanting to go faster.
The bikes cursed? Oh crap. Dave is a curse to my wallet!spareparts said:
If you want to go faster, why take instruction from a bunch of amateur wannabe cock waving Mavericks here on PH? Go get instruction from CSS, Ron Haslam, or some similar training school.
Perhaps not CSS though..... Get some training from Simon Crafar, Jeremy McWilliams, Mike Dickinson and ask for their thoughts on CSS and friends as "track" focused training schools. LMFAO.Mr OCD said:
...here we have people installing data loggers and lap timers... where did it all change?
When technology allowed people to have the tools to help them improve their own riding via analysis rather than guesswork. I guess it boils down to how much time/effort do you want to invest in your hobby and how serious you are if you want improve. For some they are content to just ride around. Others prefer to see improvement over time and use tools to help them achieve this. Not too difficult a concept to grasp?
This thread has got way out of hand, I can understand where Loon is coming from but it isn't being helped by others jumping on the bandwagon to criticise others.
There have been a lot of newcomers to trackdays, granted, myself included. I am amongst the crashers sadly but have never timed myself and only try to get better by using better lines, gear choices etc, I made a mistake as I was too far out wide, simple as that with no hero b
ks of racing or timing was involved.
I was however, having fun, I do find trackdays a complicated bizarre affair but that is for another thread on another day.
Crashers:
Jazoli, mechanical failure.
Yazzas mate, mechanical failure.
Grahame, got stood up at one of the fastest parts of Oulton.
Clen, rider error, too much back brake but that is also for another thread!
Yazza, forgot he hadn't put his tyre warmers on.
gwm, WTF? on a sighting lap admiring the scenery i think and forgot he was on track.
Jack, rider error.
Myself, rider error.
MTB, rider error.
I don't think anyone there seriously times themselves and gets all pissed off if they don't do times, MTB times himself but only as a comparison to the trip before.
Sure, a few of us have gone down, it happens but while it does and has to some of us, we have all been having fun and have gone on to do other trackdays after dusting ourselves off and getting back on the horse.
Just because people do things differently to others it doesn't mean they are particularly doing it wrong, they just have a different approach. Again, everyone is having fun and learning from days on track and making mistakes etc.
I know what not to do next time for example.
I would like to reiterate that I have met only good guys from the forum, people that I would gladly have a beer with or just chat to, people who have offered me good advice regarding riding, I also go along to the odd trackday to see whats going on and if I recognise someone then I pop over and say hi.
I only do this for fun, it's fking expensive though.
There have been a lot of newcomers to trackdays, granted, myself included. I am amongst the crashers sadly but have never timed myself and only try to get better by using better lines, gear choices etc, I made a mistake as I was too far out wide, simple as that with no hero b
ks of racing or timing was involved.I was however, having fun, I do find trackdays a complicated bizarre affair but that is for another thread on another day.
Crashers:
Jazoli, mechanical failure.
Yazzas mate, mechanical failure.
Grahame, got stood up at one of the fastest parts of Oulton.
Clen, rider error, too much back brake but that is also for another thread!
Yazza, forgot he hadn't put his tyre warmers on.
gwm, WTF? on a sighting lap admiring the scenery i think and forgot he was on track.
Jack, rider error.
Myself, rider error.
MTB, rider error.
I don't think anyone there seriously times themselves and gets all pissed off if they don't do times, MTB times himself but only as a comparison to the trip before.
Sure, a few of us have gone down, it happens but while it does and has to some of us, we have all been having fun and have gone on to do other trackdays after dusting ourselves off and getting back on the horse.
Just because people do things differently to others it doesn't mean they are particularly doing it wrong, they just have a different approach. Again, everyone is having fun and learning from days on track and making mistakes etc.
I know what not to do next time for example.
I would like to reiterate that I have met only good guys from the forum, people that I would gladly have a beer with or just chat to, people who have offered me good advice regarding riding, I also go along to the odd trackday to see whats going on and if I recognise someone then I pop over and say hi.
I only do this for fun, it's f
king expensive though.fergus said:
spareparts said:
If you want to go faster, why take instruction from a bunch of amateur wannabe cock waving Mavericks here on PH? Go get instruction from CSS, Ron Haslam, or some similar training school.
Perhaps not CSS though..... Get some training from Simon Crafar, Jeremy McWilliams, Mike Dickinson and ask for their thoughts on CSS and friends as "track" focused training schools. LMFAO.Having met Loon in real life (scary eh!), I know he's not really the blunt and oft condescending guy he comes across as on here. Don't be so jaded!
As one of the new trackday enthusiasts on here, this is the only forum I really use for bike chat so probably seem dead keen. For me lap time are interesting, as I'm trying to improve my riding and it's the only objective way to know if it's working or not.
Videos are for me, I shared a couple but then realised they are actually very boring! Plus I might catch something interesting - gutted I missed my crash at OP
Anyone who has met me so far (I'd hope) would agree that I'm keen and pretty laid back. I only ask questions so I'm more informed and can get better / enjoy it more. As an engineer, I'm also interested in the mechanical side of things - rather than asking as I want to discuss the merits of different clip ons.
I have tended to stick towards the back of the pack as I want to just ride round and focus on enjoying it, not have to worry about some bellend standing me up in a corner because he/she is "so much faster".
Though I admit I really enjoyed going past sc0tt at Snetterton and giving him the finger - but that's only cos I've met him
A picture to keep BN awake:
Same with road riding, there's guys who take a real macho approach to it and I hate it. Risky enough on track, but consequences are far greater on the road.
I think you Fast lot take it all a lot more seriously than any Novice rider I've met so far. An attitude of "I'm fast, if I'm not setting PBs then there is an external factor holding me back". Of course even someone fast will get humbled when someone faster turns up.
Think there's also a difference between regular trackdayers and those who will only manage 1/2 a year. Regulars have the enlightenment/ experience that they will be on another one soon so don't get too caught up.
ker!
(smiley so we all know it's banter)
As one of the new trackday enthusiasts on here, this is the only forum I really use for bike chat so probably seem dead keen. For me lap time are interesting, as I'm trying to improve my riding and it's the only objective way to know if it's working or not.
Videos are for me, I shared a couple but then realised they are actually very boring! Plus I might catch something interesting - gutted I missed my crash at OP
Anyone who has met me so far (I'd hope) would agree that I'm keen and pretty laid back. I only ask questions so I'm more informed and can get better / enjoy it more. As an engineer, I'm also interested in the mechanical side of things - rather than asking as I want to discuss the merits of different clip ons.
I have tended to stick towards the back of the pack as I want to just ride round and focus on enjoying it, not have to worry about some bellend standing me up in a corner because he/she is "so much faster".
Though I admit I really enjoyed going past sc0tt at Snetterton and giving him the finger - but that's only cos I've met him
A picture to keep BN awake:
Same with road riding, there's guys who take a real macho approach to it and I hate it. Risky enough on track, but consequences are far greater on the road.
I think you Fast lot take it all a lot more seriously than any Novice rider I've met so far. An attitude of "I'm fast, if I'm not setting PBs then there is an external factor holding me back". Of course even someone fast will get humbled when someone faster turns up.
Think there's also a difference between regular trackdayers and those who will only manage 1/2 a year. Regulars have the enlightenment/ experience that they will be on another one soon so don't get too caught up.
curlie467 said:
gwm, WTF? on a sighting lap admiring the scenery i think and forgot he was on track.
ahha, wker! mitzy said:
As for setting quick times, you boys will be boys, it's part of your make up as blokes, show me a guy who say he is not competative and I will show you a liar 
Just a reminder of the best point on this thread for all those who pretend to be Dalai Lama chilled at track days... (smiley so we all know it's banter)gwm said:
curlie467 said:
gwm, WTF? on a sighting lap admiring the scenery i think and forgot he was on track.
ahha, wker! (smiley so we all know it's banter)
You are an engineer? Get the shock sent off and rebuilt professionally but get the forks stripped and done yourself, just make sure the springs are good for your weight. They really are easy to do and are a good thing to learn as the more you can do for yourself the better in my opinion.
curlie467 said:
haha, I knew you would like that!
You are an engineer? Get the shock sent off and rebuilt professionally but get the forks stripped and done yourself, just make sure the springs are good for your weight. They really are easy to do and are a good thing to learn as the more you can do for yourself the better in my opinion.
True, but I cba. You are an engineer? Get the shock sent off and rebuilt professionally but get the forks stripped and done yourself, just make sure the springs are good for your weight. They really are easy to do and are a good thing to learn as the more you can do for yourself the better in my opinion.
fergus said:
Perhaps not CSS though..... Get some training from Simon Crafar, Jeremy McWilliams, Mike Dickinson and ask for their thoughts on CSS and friends as "track" focused training schools. LMFAO.
Please tell me more, what is bad about CSS? I know it's expensive and trains people through "levels" rather than "Give me £150 and I'll follow you around the track and tell you where to improve", so I suppose there is a bit of the Scientology there. I certainly don't doubt the ability of their instructors, I work with an ex-CSS instructor and he seems to know his stuff. I can imagine their approach of drilling techniques and making students achieve standards might put some off though.
Mastodon2 said:
fergus said:
Perhaps not CSS though..... Get some training from Simon Crafar, Jeremy McWilliams, Mike Dickinson and ask for their thoughts on CSS and friends as "track" focused training schools. LMFAO.
Please tell me more, what is bad about CSS? I know it's expensive and trains people through "levels" rather than "Give me £150 and I'll follow you around the track and tell you where to improve", so I suppose there is a bit of the Scientology there. I certainly don't doubt the ability of their instructors, I work with an ex-CSS instructor and he seems to know his stuff. I can imagine their approach of drilling techniques and making students achieve standards might put some off though.
spareparts said:
fergus said:
spareparts said:
If you want to go faster, why take instruction from a bunch of amateur wannabe cock waving Mavericks here on PH? Go get instruction from CSS, Ron Haslam, or some similar training school.
Perhaps not CSS though..... Get some training from Simon Crafar, Jeremy McWilliams, Mike Dickinson and ask for their thoughts on CSS and friends as "track" focused training schools. LMFAO.Simon often comments that it takes him several sessions to "undo" bad habits ingrained from CSS in particular.
Just because a lot of people have done it doesn't mean it's the most fit for purpose training out there. Look at the IAM as a classic example of this. "Formal training" is only a way of passing on knowledge. The content of what is being passed on may be able to be improved upon.
See: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=108... for more empirical evidence. I've done CSS L1&2 (a long time ago) and also a number of days with Simon.
:beers:
Edited by fergus on Wednesday 8th July 17:55
fergus said:
spareparts said:
fergus said:
spareparts said:
If you want to go faster, why take instruction from a bunch of amateur wannabe cock waving Mavericks here on PH? Go get instruction from CSS, Ron Haslam, or some similar training school.
Perhaps not CSS though..... Get some training from Simon Crafar, Jeremy McWilliams, Mike Dickinson and ask for their thoughts on CSS and friends as "track" focused training schools. LMFAO.Simon often comments that it takes him several sessions to "undo" bad habits ingrained from CSS in particular.
Just because a lot of people have done it doesn't mean it's the most fit for purpose training out there. Look at the IAM as a classic example of this. "Formal training" is only a way of passing on knowledge. The content of what is being passed on may be able to be improved upon.
See: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=108... for more empirical evidence. I've done CSS L1&2 (a long time ago) and also a number of days with Simon.
:beers:
Edited by fergus on Wednesday 8th July 17:55
spareparts said:
Lap times are not critical as there is no silverware (other than gold, silver, bronze cock awards), but they are a great reflection of a rider's ability to improve their skill and technique. Why get training? To ride smoother, better, safer, more in control... Faster! Anyone who says they're just lapping a race track for pure fun without any competitiveness or desire to go a bit quicker next lap has the biggest Liar's Cock award!! You gonna sit behind the rider in front for lap after lap or are you going to look to pass them? Grow a pair and admit it. You want to be in the fast fast group leading from the front elbow down and passing your mate in the braking zone hitting that apex...
It's all fun until it goes horribly wrong and the big fat book of racing excuses comes out. Stuffing it up the inside of your mate IS fun. Bragging about it in the pits part of the camaraderie. Laugh it all off at the after track over a pint. Those who get all serious have found their own limits and are probably annoyed they ain't getting faster, or they've lost the bottle. Throw in the keys man. Hang up the leathers.
If you want to go faster, why take instruction from a bunch of amateur wannabe cock waving Mavericks here on PH? Go get instruction from CSS, Ron Haslam, or some similar training school.
I've not picked this to single you out, it was just the first of a few comments. It's all fun until it goes horribly wrong and the big fat book of racing excuses comes out. Stuffing it up the inside of your mate IS fun. Bragging about it in the pits part of the camaraderie. Laugh it all off at the after track over a pint. Those who get all serious have found their own limits and are probably annoyed they ain't getting faster, or they've lost the bottle. Throw in the keys man. Hang up the leathers.
If you want to go faster, why take instruction from a bunch of amateur wannabe cock waving Mavericks here on PH? Go get instruction from CSS, Ron Haslam, or some similar training school.
Maybe I used the wrong word when I said "competitive". I have no doubt that we all want to be faster than our mate who's on track at the same, time with us and right in front / just behind. I agree, that's the fun part of it and the bit that gives great anecdotes over a few pints later in the evening.
Where my concern was with the "bragging rights" over who's going to go in Fast first and the posting of laptimes on here and daring others to better them. There's a thing called traffic and getting 90% of the lap perfect to then catch a bit of traffic means a "slow" lap, whereas a ragged lap with a clear track could see a decent time, depending on skill level. That doesn't mean jack in reality.
I agree people should take instruction. I think I said in my OP that I did last week, as something didn't feel right. It's given me stuff to work on.
What I'd like is to see people who turn up smiling, having a laugh about this overtake, or that overtake and their last session, rather than stressing about whether they are ready for the next group etc. I'm just thankful that nobody has been injured too badly this year from on here. Two of my mates Paul and Mike can't ever ride again after big crashes this year and if the crashes continue on here, then someone else could end up in that position and that isn't what this is supposed to be about.
LoonR1 said:
spareparts said:
Lap times are not critical as there is no silverware (other than gold, silver, bronze cock awards), but they are a great reflection of a rider's ability to improve their skill and technique. Why get training? To ride smoother, better, safer, more in control... Faster! Anyone who says they're just lapping a race track for pure fun without any competitiveness or desire to go a bit quicker next lap has the biggest Liar's Cock award!! You gonna sit behind the rider in front for lap after lap or are you going to look to pass them? Grow a pair and admit it. You want to be in the fast fast group leading from the front elbow down and passing your mate in the braking zone hitting that apex...
It's all fun until it goes horribly wrong and the big fat book of racing excuses comes out. Stuffing it up the inside of your mate IS fun. Bragging about it in the pits part of the camaraderie. Laugh it all off at the after track over a pint. Those who get all serious have found their own limits and are probably annoyed they ain't getting faster, or they've lost the bottle. Throw in the keys man. Hang up the leathers.
If you want to go faster, why take instruction from a bunch of amateur wannabe cock waving Mavericks here on PH? Go get instruction from CSS, Ron Haslam, or some similar training school.
I've not picked this to single you out, it was just the first of a few comments. It's all fun until it goes horribly wrong and the big fat book of racing excuses comes out. Stuffing it up the inside of your mate IS fun. Bragging about it in the pits part of the camaraderie. Laugh it all off at the after track over a pint. Those who get all serious have found their own limits and are probably annoyed they ain't getting faster, or they've lost the bottle. Throw in the keys man. Hang up the leathers.
If you want to go faster, why take instruction from a bunch of amateur wannabe cock waving Mavericks here on PH? Go get instruction from CSS, Ron Haslam, or some similar training school.
Maybe I used the wrong word when I said "competitive". I have no doubt that we all want to be faster than our mate who's on track at the same, time with us and right in front / just behind. I agree, that's the fun part of it and the bit that gives great anecdotes over a few pints later in the evening.
Where my concern was with the "bragging rights" over who's going to go in Fast first and the posting of laptimes on here and daring others to better them. There's a thing called traffic and getting 90% of the lap perfect to then catch a bit of traffic means a "slow" lap, whereas a ragged lap with a clear track could see a decent time, depending on skill level. That doesn't mean jack in reality.
I agree people should take instruction. I think I said in my OP that I did last week, as something didn't feel right. It's given me stuff to work on.
What I'd like is to see people who turn up smiling, having a laugh about this overtake, or that overtake and their last session, rather than stressing about whether they are ready for the next group etc. I'm just thankful that nobody has been injured too badly this year from on here. Two of my mates Paul and Mike can't ever ride again after big crashes this year and if the crashes continue on here, then someone else could end up in that position and that isn't what this is supposed to be about.
There's only a very small handful of riders on BB - and they aren't indicative of the average rider out there. But why get hung up about TD groups? If you are, then you are clearly as sensitive to it as those who talk about it. Personally, I genuinely CBA about who rides in what group. Plenty of fast group warriors who struggle on real roads.spareparts said:
Plenty of riders are having big fun - just not here on BB There's only a very small handful of riders on BB - and they aren't indicative of the average rider out there. But why get hung up about TD groups? If you are, then you are clearly as sensitive to it as those who talk about it. Personally, I genuinely CBA about who rides in what group. Plenty of fast group warriors who struggle on real roads.
I'm not hung up on groups and I'm back having fun, having sorted my issues out. I'm talking about the wider BB population. There's only a very small handful of riders on BB - and they aren't indicative of the average rider out there. But why get hung up about TD groups? If you are, then you are clearly as sensitive to it as those who talk about it. Personally, I genuinely CBA about who rides in what group. Plenty of fast group warriors who struggle on real roads.Think you're misunderstanding this.
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