At last my own new bike thread!
Discussion
Reardy Mister said:
A few observations after 3 tanks of fuel:
Some interesting observations, always nice to hear about the real character of the bike, instead of the usual glowing reviews that every proud owner tends towards. Having enjoyed this one for a little while now, are you still content it's the right tourer, or would a Pan Euro be a better bike overall?
The dealer came to pick the bike this morning to try to sort out the issues listed here and were kind enough to leave me a loan bike, in the form of a new model R1200RT. I was a little disappointed to be honest, I fancied a go on something different. Until I rode it.
My word. What a machine. That it was going to be a better bike than mine was expected, but not this much better. Mine is only 5 years old afterall. But the new bike is more accomplished in every department (except the display and OBC controls, more on that later) and I felt better on it by the time I left my street than I do on my own after 3 months and 2500 miles.
The throttle is crisp, reliable, sharp and with a much more purposeful engine note. The engine, christ what an improvement. Everything mine should have been and then some. Yes, you're still on a tourer (I'm not saying its any sort of ZX10 here) but its so much more urgent, so much more eager to rev and the shove you get is considerable (as opposed to a surge). None of the uncertainty you get from the fuelling in mine, around 40% of the vibration you get on mine and much smoother power, feels tight higher up but that's probably because its a demo and still quite new. Mine did too at first. It was actually fun, which is high praise from me. I want to wheelie it everywhere, that's how nice it is (I tried but the pesky ASC cut in). In a traffic light GP, this *feels* like it would destroy mine.
Earlier someone asked if mine was top heavy and my first reaction is "no, its actually fine" but having ridden this, yes in comparison mine is top heavy. This leans more eagerly and feels much more sure footed. Speaking of feel, I feel I have much more of that on the front end of this bike. I was far more confident everywhere on the commute which is saying something, cause I don't mind chucking mine about.
The brake and clutch levers are much lighter to use especially the clutch. The clutch take up feels slightly odd but I got used to it, brakes excellent, as per mine.
Gearbox is a huge improvement. Knowing what can be done, how the hell did they sell the old one for so long with a straight f
king face? Honestly? This one is great, smooth changes, small, quiet, positive clicks up and down and gear shift assist that allows full throttle clutchless up shifts and full closed throttle clutchless down shifts. Only tried the upshifts so far but very pleased with the result.
The one I have is fitted with the audio system. I used it unashamedly loudly and gleefully all the way in today. Its actually not too bad up to about 70mph, after which you need full volume almost and the clarity is lost to wind noise. I don't think BMW could be accused of chucking too much at the speakers, mind you. Were it mine, I'd upgrade them. If a radio is so important to you that you want one on your motorbike, so is sound quality, to my mind. Aerial is very good as it picked up a vast array of stations. Will investigate a Bluetooth feed from my phone on the way home.
For the new models, some of the myriad of buttons for suspension, heated wotsits and adjustable doo-dahs have been replaced by a wheel on the right grip, like a motorrad verison of I-drive I guess. So far I can say I am really not impressed. Its not at all intuitive and the buttons that are required to use in conjunction with it are not clearly marked and don't appear to do the tasks you would assume they would on any other UX. The addition of the wheel has also moved the buttons I do need (like the indicators) even further from my thumb, which was already hard. Try operating the clutch and indicator at once on an RT, you need hands like a baboon. So it wasn't quick or easy to adjust the heated grips or check suspension settings or tyre pressures, unlike mine which really is quick and easy. London commuter traffic will not tolerate Blokey Bloggs taking 3 extra seconds to move in to the recently available 4 feet that exists in front of him, while he twizzles the left grip searching through the dashboard for the heated seat menu. Mine takes a simple jab of the right thumb. Job done.
The drive shaft and exhaust have swapped sides and the bike also now torques to the left when you rev it, instead of the right on the old one. So too bad if you want to carry your old luggage over to the new bike, I suppose. Also of note is the top box on this demo. It is carpet lined, has central locking (along with the two gloves boxes either side of the tank), has a high level brake light included and TWO gas struts to support the lid. What the actual fk? Its a 50l top box, not a furniture van. As if bike add-ons weren't expensive enough, I shudder to think what the replacement cost of that unit must be, should you chuck one up the road. Being a daily user of the old genuine BMW top box, I consider the new one to be a bit ridiculous.
The headlights on the new one look awesome as they have the Angel Eyes feature coveted by so many BMW drivers and the satnav mount is now built in to the dash, with a blanking plate fitted for if you don't have one.
The only other gripe so far is that BMW have addressed some owners concerns about rear view mirror visibility. All I can say is that those complaining have clearly never ridden an Italian superbike. The mirrors on my bike are fine and are even effective over the top of the luggage, with only the Missus' legs or elbows really starting to obscure things. On the new one visibility is better buts that's mainly due to the fact they stick out more. I suspect the surface area of the mirror is actually smaller. When filtering on the commute, a wider bike is not what I wanted. So BMW have made them foldable, which is all very well but in heavy traffic you need them out as much as in and folding them is done manually, which of course requires hands off the controls, not ideal. If they do an electric folding mirror option, fair enough. I will maintain though that the old ones were just fine.
The new screen appears to have a fraction more height and width which is good and the seat feels plusher. Both positives but not deal breakers on mine.
In summary, this but with my bikes gadget controls would be ideal. If you are looking at RTs and are in two minds about whether to spend the extra on the new model, absolutely do it would be my advice. It knocks spots off the old one.
My word. What a machine. That it was going to be a better bike than mine was expected, but not this much better. Mine is only 5 years old afterall. But the new bike is more accomplished in every department (except the display and OBC controls, more on that later) and I felt better on it by the time I left my street than I do on my own after 3 months and 2500 miles.
The throttle is crisp, reliable, sharp and with a much more purposeful engine note. The engine, christ what an improvement. Everything mine should have been and then some. Yes, you're still on a tourer (I'm not saying its any sort of ZX10 here) but its so much more urgent, so much more eager to rev and the shove you get is considerable (as opposed to a surge). None of the uncertainty you get from the fuelling in mine, around 40% of the vibration you get on mine and much smoother power, feels tight higher up but that's probably because its a demo and still quite new. Mine did too at first. It was actually fun, which is high praise from me. I want to wheelie it everywhere, that's how nice it is (I tried but the pesky ASC cut in). In a traffic light GP, this *feels* like it would destroy mine.
Earlier someone asked if mine was top heavy and my first reaction is "no, its actually fine" but having ridden this, yes in comparison mine is top heavy. This leans more eagerly and feels much more sure footed. Speaking of feel, I feel I have much more of that on the front end of this bike. I was far more confident everywhere on the commute which is saying something, cause I don't mind chucking mine about.
The brake and clutch levers are much lighter to use especially the clutch. The clutch take up feels slightly odd but I got used to it, brakes excellent, as per mine.
Gearbox is a huge improvement. Knowing what can be done, how the hell did they sell the old one for so long with a straight f
king face? Honestly? This one is great, smooth changes, small, quiet, positive clicks up and down and gear shift assist that allows full throttle clutchless up shifts and full closed throttle clutchless down shifts. Only tried the upshifts so far but very pleased with the result.The one I have is fitted with the audio system. I used it unashamedly loudly and gleefully all the way in today. Its actually not too bad up to about 70mph, after which you need full volume almost and the clarity is lost to wind noise. I don't think BMW could be accused of chucking too much at the speakers, mind you. Were it mine, I'd upgrade them. If a radio is so important to you that you want one on your motorbike, so is sound quality, to my mind. Aerial is very good as it picked up a vast array of stations. Will investigate a Bluetooth feed from my phone on the way home.
For the new models, some of the myriad of buttons for suspension, heated wotsits and adjustable doo-dahs have been replaced by a wheel on the right grip, like a motorrad verison of I-drive I guess. So far I can say I am really not impressed. Its not at all intuitive and the buttons that are required to use in conjunction with it are not clearly marked and don't appear to do the tasks you would assume they would on any other UX. The addition of the wheel has also moved the buttons I do need (like the indicators) even further from my thumb, which was already hard. Try operating the clutch and indicator at once on an RT, you need hands like a baboon. So it wasn't quick or easy to adjust the heated grips or check suspension settings or tyre pressures, unlike mine which really is quick and easy. London commuter traffic will not tolerate Blokey Bloggs taking 3 extra seconds to move in to the recently available 4 feet that exists in front of him, while he twizzles the left grip searching through the dashboard for the heated seat menu. Mine takes a simple jab of the right thumb. Job done.
The drive shaft and exhaust have swapped sides and the bike also now torques to the left when you rev it, instead of the right on the old one. So too bad if you want to carry your old luggage over to the new bike, I suppose. Also of note is the top box on this demo. It is carpet lined, has central locking (along with the two gloves boxes either side of the tank), has a high level brake light included and TWO gas struts to support the lid. What the actual f
k? Its a 50l top box, not a furniture van. As if bike add-ons weren't expensive enough, I shudder to think what the replacement cost of that unit must be, should you chuck one up the road. Being a daily user of the old genuine BMW top box, I consider the new one to be a bit ridiculous. The headlights on the new one look awesome as they have the Angel Eyes feature coveted by so many BMW drivers and the satnav mount is now built in to the dash, with a blanking plate fitted for if you don't have one.
The only other gripe so far is that BMW have addressed some owners concerns about rear view mirror visibility. All I can say is that those complaining have clearly never ridden an Italian superbike. The mirrors on my bike are fine and are even effective over the top of the luggage, with only the Missus' legs or elbows really starting to obscure things. On the new one visibility is better buts that's mainly due to the fact they stick out more. I suspect the surface area of the mirror is actually smaller. When filtering on the commute, a wider bike is not what I wanted. So BMW have made them foldable, which is all very well but in heavy traffic you need them out as much as in and folding them is done manually, which of course requires hands off the controls, not ideal. If they do an electric folding mirror option, fair enough. I will maintain though that the old ones were just fine.
The new screen appears to have a fraction more height and width which is good and the seat feels plusher. Both positives but not deal breakers on mine.
In summary, this but with my bikes gadget controls would be ideal. If you are looking at RTs and are in two minds about whether to spend the extra on the new model, absolutely do it would be my advice. It knocks spots off the old one.
Edited by Reardy Mister on Friday 18th September 11:07
Nice write up. It's a shame that you have discovered the benefits of the newer bike after buying yours and that the way you discovered them was from the issues you are having with yours. Let's hope the issues with yours get addressed quickly (or perhaps not if you want to hang on to the newer bike.)
It has to go. I don't know how feasible it is as I only bought it 4 months ago but its just a bit too soulless. I can handle slow or a stty gearbox or wheezy engine, if it has a redeeming feature or a special skill. Its capable, no doubt. But it just disappears into the background of any setting.
So what next? Well provided I'm not too far upside down on this one, I'm off to look at K1300S (in which case why not a Kawasaki 1400GTR? Too hard to find at a dealer within 80miles of me) and a R1200GS or two on Saturday. The caveat on the GS is that it must be the new liquid cooled engine, because its a good'un. The K will have some pace and I like the long, low look of it; the GS will annoy many people on PH, can offroad and I like the chunky, rugged look of it.
Also, some mates on the weekend called mine the Grandpa bike. Final fking straw. Knowing my luck Ill be stuck with it for another year...
Missus asked me last night "Does it have to be another BMW?" which was a good point. Despite everything, at this moment I would say yes but I might dip a toe in the Triumph Explorer pond, as there is a dealer very close by. I've decided against the "one bike for all occasions" notion. Its just not doable. One bike for commuting and touring and then later, a cheap, fast one for the odd track day or blat.
Nothing else I regularly see on the commute is really floating my boat at the moment. And I cant afford the latest RT.
tty gearbox or wheezy engine, if it has a redeeming feature or a special skill. Its capable, no doubt. But it just disappears into the background of any setting. So what next? Well provided I'm not too far upside down on this one, I'm off to look at K1300S (in which case why not a Kawasaki 1400GTR? Too hard to find at a dealer within 80miles of me) and a R1200GS or two on Saturday. The caveat on the GS is that it must be the new liquid cooled engine, because its a good'un. The K will have some pace and I like the long, low look of it; the GS will annoy many people on PH, can offroad and I like the chunky, rugged look of it.
Also, some mates on the weekend called mine the Grandpa bike. Final f
king straw. Knowing my luck Ill be stuck with it for another year...Missus asked me last night "Does it have to be another BMW?" which was a good point. Despite everything, at this moment I would say yes but I might dip a toe in the Triumph Explorer pond, as there is a dealer very close by. I've decided against the "one bike for all occasions" notion. Its just not doable. One bike for commuting and touring and then later, a cheap, fast one for the odd track day or blat.
Nothing else I regularly see on the commute is really floating my boat at the moment. And I cant afford the latest RT.
black-k1 said:
If you're looking at the K1300S then, other than the shaft vs. chain drive, it should be the ZZR1400, not the GTR, you're looking at.
As said, the VFR1200 is the only other shaft drive Sport Tourer option.
I thought the ZZR was the more sport orientated of the two, with the GTR being the tourer? As said, the VFR1200 is the only other shaft drive Sport Tourer option.
(I panic when I have to think about any bike not used to support the Tour De France)
Interesting that you're jumping the RT ship. I sort of know what you mean, the Ark Royal is pretty capable at what it does (getting me to work and back) but it almost doesn't feel like "my" bike. It is actually growing on me a little, but only by dint of its reliability and capability, not because of character in any way. A granddad bike it may be, but then, my kids are probably older than most of you lot!
I just haven't seen anything else which makes me want to expend enough effort to go and try/buy. If the Ark sinks, then I have a few probables up my sleeve (per a post a couple of weeks back) but at the moment it owes me 3 parts of bgger all, it starts every morning and every evening, and it fits through just as many gaps as pretty much anything except a fleegler on the commute, and commuting is 95% of the use it gets.
I just haven't seen anything else which makes me want to expend enough effort to go and try/buy. If the Ark sinks, then I have a few probables up my sleeve (per a post a couple of weeks back) but at the moment it owes me 3 parts of bgger all, it starts every morning and every evening, and it fits through just as many gaps as pretty much anything except a fleegler on the commute, and commuting is 95% of the use it gets.
Yep, 85% of my use is commute as well and I've been amazed at where the RT will fit. But my logic is, if I'm going to shell out money for a vehicle that I spend two hours a day on and some leisure time, it needs to be on something that I enjoy being on (or being seen on 
). Otherwise its akin to paying for the train.
). Otherwise its akin to paying for the train.Rosscow said:
Vulgar LS2 said:
I had your problem last year, I wanted a shaft, big screen, luggage........... and after test riding everything bought a new ZZR1400 
and fitted it with luggage and a center stand.
How did it compare to the VFR? and fitted it with luggage and a center stand.I'm presuming the VFR was smaller and sportier?
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