Could I justify a new Sports Bike in Scotland?
Discussion
Mastodon2 said:
moanthebairns said:
When I ride a bike with that little power it's not unreasonable to want to pin it as it's perfectly manageable even on the roads.
It's what, 150bhp and 73lb-ft of torque, it's hardly underpowered, is it?A
Power delivery of a Ducati twin is very different. Some people like it. You obviously don't. I would say that it takes time to get used to it because it is so different. Main advantage is that it gives you more grunt out of the corners. You lose out at the top end though. Depends on what you value more and your riding style. That doesn't make the 899 s
t. Just not to your taste.
First time I rode a 916 I didn't like it. Got off thinking what is the fuss about? But loved the shape so much I went back some months later and had long ride on a 916 and then a 996. By the end of end of the ride I was smitten. Just took me a long time to get it.
moanthebairns said:
It was a good bike ruined by a horrible engine. I'm not going to sit their foaming at the trousers like everyone else just because it's red, Italian and a Ducati. When I ride a bike with that little power it's not unreasonable to want to pin it as it's perfectly manageable even on the roads.
This was like riding a diesel. Race mode, throttle open, nothing, bang, front goes like, oh here we go, oh st limiter. It had much more power than my 675 but never felt any faster. And for all its power it was only marginally faster than my 675 on the straights whilst up against one.
Perhaps the problem is you were expecting too much. The smaller Ducati has always been a rival for Jap 600s and not to be compared with litre bikes. The 748 was much slower than the equivalent 600 so not surprising to me that the 899 is only marginally quicker than a 675 on the road. I was getting on the 899 from an S 1000 R so was expecting it to be slower so didn't put it down for that.This was like riding a diesel. Race mode, throttle open, nothing, bang, front goes like, oh here we go, oh s
t limiter. It had much more power than my 675 but never felt any faster. And for all its power it was only marginally faster than my 675 on the straights whilst up against one. Power delivery of a Ducati twin is very different. Some people like it. You obviously don't. I would say that it takes time to get used to it because it is so different. Main advantage is that it gives you more grunt out of the corners. You lose out at the top end though. Depends on what you value more and your riding style. That doesn't make the 899 s
t. Just not to your taste.First time I rode a 916 I didn't like it. Got off thinking what is the fuss about? But loved the shape so much I went back some months later and had long ride on a 916 and then a 996. By the end of end of the ride I was smitten. Just took me a long time to get it.
Esceptico said:
A
Power delivery of a Ducati twin is very different. Some people like it. You obviously don't. I would say that it takes time to get used to it because it is so different. Main advantage is that it gives you more grunt out of the corners. You lose out at the top end though. Depends on what you value more and your riding style. That doesn't make the 899 st. Just not to your taste.
First time I rode a 916 I didn't like it. Got off thinking what is the fuss about? But loved the shape so much I went back some months later and had long ride on a 916 and then a 996. By the end of end of the ride I was smitten. Just took me a long time to get it.
That is completely the correct answer. I suspect id love the 1299 but sadly it was booked out by posers jumping on to their gs after saying how great it was. moanthebairns said:
It was a good bike ruined by a horrible engine. I'm not going to sit their foaming at the trousers like everyone else just because it's red, Italian and a Ducati. When I ride a bike with that little power it's not unreasonable to want to pin it as it's perfectly manageable even on the roads.
This was like riding a diesel. Race mode, throttle open, nothing, bang, front goes like, oh here we go, oh st limiter. It had much more power than my 675 but never felt any faster. And for all its power it was only marginally faster than my 675 on the straights whilst up against one.
Perhaps the problem is you were expecting too much. The smaller Ducati has always been a rival for Jap 600s and not to be compared with litre bikes. The 748 was much slower than the equivalent 600 so not surprising to me that the 899 is only marginally quicker than a 675 on the road. I was getting on the 899 from an S 1000 R so was expecting it to be slower so didn't put it down for that.This was like riding a diesel. Race mode, throttle open, nothing, bang, front goes like, oh here we go, oh s
t limiter. It had much more power than my 675 but never felt any faster. And for all its power it was only marginally faster than my 675 on the straights whilst up against one. Power delivery of a Ducati twin is very different. Some people like it. You obviously don't. I would say that it takes time to get used to it because it is so different. Main advantage is that it gives you more grunt out of the corners. You lose out at the top end though. Depends on what you value more and your riding style. That doesn't make the 899 s
t. Just not to your taste.First time I rode a 916 I didn't like it. Got off thinking what is the fuss about? But loved the shape so much I went back some months later and had long ride on a 916 and then a 996. By the end of end of the ride I was smitten. Just took me a long time to get it.
The guy from Ducati wasn't best pleased when I spoke my mind. I mean I slide about on it. The fing was cramped but by God it had a good chassis and handled great.
I wanted to like it but I really think once you have ridden a 675 for so long it twists your mind. I get on my zx6r, now it's old but still has a 100 odd bhp and I feel the engine a bore, right until it hits the power band. With the Triumph there is so much torque low down that acceleration Is very linear and the engine just begs to be red lined on the road or the track. There really is only one bike to have in that class and it's the 675. Well maybe the 636 but that's pig ugly and more expensive. Triumph shot themselves in the foot developing the new daytona only for the arse to fall out of the 600 market. Being left with a lesser product to the old one for more money.
If they had continued to punt the original and the r along with inflation and they really were a bargain and simply the only 600 to have end of
So answer to the OP question, look at used bikes. If you cant justify the price of a new one you can get a lot of bang for your buck used where someone has taken the hit of tax and depreciation for you. The used bike market is nothing like the car world. There is plenty of showroom class beaters out there for 5k easy.
moanthebairns said:
That is completely the correct answer. I suspect id love the 1299 but sadly it was booked out by posers jumping on to their gs after saying how great it was.
The guy from Ducati wasn't best pleased when I spoke my mind. I mean I slide about on it. The fing was cramped but by God it had a good chassis and handled great.
I wanted to like it but I really think once you have ridden a 675 for so long it twists your mind. I get on my zx6r, now it's old but still has a 100 odd bhp and I feel the engine a bore, right until it hits the power band. With the Triumph there is so much torque low down that acceleration Is very linear and the engine just begs to be red lined on the road or the track. There really is only one bike to have in that class and it's the 675. Well maybe the 636 but that's pig ugly and more expensive. Triumph shot themselves in the foot developing the new daytona only for the arse to fall out of the 600 market. Being left with a lesser product to the old one for more money.
If they had continued to punt the original and the r along with inflation and they really were a bargain and simply the only 600 to have end of
So answer to the OP question, look at used bikes. If you cant justify the price of a new one you can get a lot of bang for your buck used where someone has taken the hit of tax and depreciation for you. The used bike market is nothing like the car world. There is plenty of showroom class beaters out there for 5k easy.
I had a test ride on a 675 the week after the 899. I was very impressed with the 675. Felt quicker than I had anticipated. Surprisingly comfortable too. I would love a sportsbike in addition to the S 1000 R. Although really I should get a much older bike rather than new (so that I wouldn't worry about using it on track and so could then do some trackdays). If I did buy new I'm not sure whether I would go 899 or 675. I think overall 675 is better bike but the 899 would be a better companion to the S 1000 R as offers quite a different feel and riding experience.The guy from Ducati wasn't best pleased when I spoke my mind. I mean I slide about on it. The fing was cramped but by God it had a good chassis and handled great.
I wanted to like it but I really think once you have ridden a 675 for so long it twists your mind. I get on my zx6r, now it's old but still has a 100 odd bhp and I feel the engine a bore, right until it hits the power band. With the Triumph there is so much torque low down that acceleration Is very linear and the engine just begs to be red lined on the road or the track. There really is only one bike to have in that class and it's the 675. Well maybe the 636 but that's pig ugly and more expensive. Triumph shot themselves in the foot developing the new daytona only for the arse to fall out of the 600 market. Being left with a lesser product to the old one for more money.
If they had continued to punt the original and the r along with inflation and they really were a bargain and simply the only 600 to have end of
So answer to the OP question, look at used bikes. If you cant justify the price of a new one you can get a lot of bang for your buck used where someone has taken the hit of tax and depreciation for you. The used bike market is nothing like the car world. There is plenty of showroom class beaters out there for 5k easy.
Looks quite nice too. I haven't ridden a 1299 yet so don't know whether the extra grunt makes a lot of difference.
Sorry for the late reply, and a big thanks to everyone opinions!
There's no doubt Scotland has great roads just not always the weather. I don't like riding in the rain mainly just cause I don't enjoy it and don't like getting my bike too messy. A big part of it would be down to confidence a bit, I tend to ride quite tense and not relaxed but I'm working on that.
I've been thinking about it and I could justify buying it, but the more I think about it the more I'm wondering if its just the cost I can't justify at the moment. Will need to ride one to find out I guess!
I have been looking at GSXR 750's too, but it's just not exotic enough for my taste. Would like to try one though as it will be a good comparison to the 899 but a lot a cheaper!
There's no doubt Scotland has great roads just not always the weather. I don't like riding in the rain mainly just cause I don't enjoy it and don't like getting my bike too messy. A big part of it would be down to confidence a bit, I tend to ride quite tense and not relaxed but I'm working on that.
I've been thinking about it and I could justify buying it, but the more I think about it the more I'm wondering if its just the cost I can't justify at the moment. Will need to ride one to find out I guess!
I have been looking at GSXR 750's too, but it's just not exotic enough for my taste. Would like to try one though as it will be a good comparison to the 899 but a lot a cheaper!
Having just done 4 days around Scotland in the company of an assortment of bikes, IMHO what you really need is a Multistrada or similar. The further north and west you get, the less the roads suit sportsbikes. We had a CBR600 and a ZZR1400 and they spent more time on the brakes than the throttle. The 'Stradas were the ideal tool... let's ignore weather protection, even hiding behind the replica of Hadrian's Wall that I ride, I still got wet... well OK, damp 
Of course if your hunting ground starts with an A and ends with 75, 76, 77 or 78 then a head-down, arse-up stance might be more appropriate...
Of course if your hunting ground starts with an A and ends with 75, 76, 77 or 78 then a head-down, arse-up stance might be more appropriate...
Wedg1e said:
Having just done 4 days around Scotland in the company of an assortment of bikes, IMHO what you really need is a Multistrada or similar. The further north and west you get, the less the roads suit sportsbikes. We had a CBR600 and a ZZR1400 and they spent more time on the brakes than the throttle. The 'Stradas were the ideal tool... let's ignore weather protection, even hiding behind the replica of Hadrian's Wall that I ride, I still got wet... well OK, damp
Of course if your hunting ground starts with an A and ends with 75, 76, 77 or 78 then a head-down, arse-up stance might be more appropriate...
I'm curious why do you think the roads don't suit sportsbikes? Only I ride the highlands fairly regularly and I have only ever thought the opposite. I was there just last month at Dunnet's head on my CBR600F and my mate on his SV650. In the rain and mental wind. Didn't phase either of us. Of course if your hunting ground starts with an A and ends with 75, 76, 77 or 78 then a head-down, arse-up stance might be more appropriate...
The only advantage in my experience is that you can cover distance more comfortably, but that's the same anywhere and nothing to do with the highlands or the roads.
ETA: I should say I am aware that my bike nor my mates are proper sportsbikes.
Edited by Prof Prolapse on Wednesday 22 July 15:28
Prof Prolapse said:
Wedg1e said:
Having just done 4 days around Scotland in the company of an assortment of bikes, IMHO what you really need is a Multistrada or similar. The further north and west you get, the less the roads suit sportsbikes. We had a CBR600 and a ZZR1400 and they spent more time on the brakes than the throttle. The 'Stradas were the ideal tool... let's ignore weather protection, even hiding behind the replica of Hadrian's Wall that I ride, I still got wet... well OK, damp
Of course if your hunting ground starts with an A and ends with 75, 76, 77 or 78 then a head-down, arse-up stance might be more appropriate...
I'm curious why do you think the roads don't suit sportsbikes? Only I ride the highlands fairly regularly and I have only ever thought the opposite. I was there just last month at Dunnet's head on my CBR600F and my mate on his SV650. In the rain and mental wind. Didn't phase either of us. Of course if your hunting ground starts with an A and ends with 75, 76, 77 or 78 then a head-down, arse-up stance might be more appropriate...
The only advantage in my experience is that you can cover distance more comfortably, but that's the same anywhere and nothing to do with the highlands or the roads.
ETA: I should say I am aware that my bike nor my mates are proper sportsbikes.
Edited by Prof Prolapse on Wednesday 22 July 15:28
A few years ago my mate and I went to Kilchoan on the Ardnamurchan peninsula, he was riding a K1200S, I was on my R1200GS Adventure, and he flat refused to ride back the way we came in, and took the ferry to Tobermory instead. Single track, narrow, blind crests and corners, sight lines obstructed by tress, it was not a good road for a sports bike, and there are plenty like that in the North West Highlands. Lochinver to Achiltibuie is a good example.
The problem is, of course, that there are plenty of good roads linking these difficult roads, where a sports bike would be really good. Therefore a good compromise is the Sports Adventure type already mentioned. The S1000XR is a real weapon, and ideal for these sort of mixed surfaces and roads.
Edited by Mad Jock on Wednesday 22 July 17:34
Mad Jock said:
Wedg1e is correct, in my opinion. Dunnet Head is not exactly tricky, a run up the A9 to Thurso and you're there. As Wedg1e says, the roads further West suit bikes like the Multistrada better, overall, than sports bikes. Of course, the new S1000XR would also be a blast, and the Yam Tracer too.
A few years ago my mate and I went to Kilchoan on the Ardnamurchan peninsula, he was riding a K1200S, I was on my R1200GS Adventure, and he flat refused to ride back the way we came in, and took the ferry to Tobermory instead. Single tack, narrow, blind crests and corners, sight lines obstructed by tress, it was not a good road for a sports bike, and there are plenty like that in the North West Highlands. Lochinver to Achiltibuie is a good example.
The problem is, of course, that there are plenty of good roads linking these difficult roads, where a sports bike would be really good. Therefore a good compromise is the Sports Adventure type already mentioned. The S1000XR is a real weapon, and ideal for these sort of mixed surfaces and roads.
I only do those roads Jock, I don't touch the A9, or indeed any major road, unless I absolutely have to. Last month I was in Lochinver during a thousand mile run up around the coastline, I was in Ardnamurchan either this year or last year (memory fails me). This year my mate has about six months experience under his belt and he ran the same roads in the pissing rain and wind and didn't struggle on his SV650. A few years ago my mate and I went to Kilchoan on the Ardnamurchan peninsula, he was riding a K1200S, I was on my R1200GS Adventure, and he flat refused to ride back the way we came in, and took the ferry to Tobermory instead. Single tack, narrow, blind crests and corners, sight lines obstructed by tress, it was not a good road for a sports bike, and there are plenty like that in the North West Highlands. Lochinver to Achiltibuie is a good example.
The problem is, of course, that there are plenty of good roads linking these difficult roads, where a sports bike would be really good. Therefore a good compromise is the Sports Adventure type already mentioned. The S1000XR is a real weapon, and ideal for these sort of mixed surfaces and roads.
I'm not denying some bikes could do it better. I'm just saying the original point is not correct to say that sportsbikes aren't suited to either the climate or the highlands, it's just people trying to rationalise their bike choice. The reality is all out adventure bikes are no more ridiculous than all out sportsbikes on these roads. These are public maintained roads which are in reasonable order they require no specialist equipment or training.
Edited by Prof Prolapse on Wednesday 22 July 17:37
moanthebairns said:
Why would you choose to ride on asinine track "farm" road on a bike. I can think of nothing worse and more tedious
It's no more tedious than going round and round the same track in never ending circles. I know that you've got the track day bug, but that's not for everyone. You're turning in to a LoonR1 Mini Me. 
Prof Prolapse said:
I only do those roads Jock, I don't touch the A9, or indeed any major road, unless I absolutely have to. Last month I was in Lochinver during a thousand mile run up around the coastline, I was in Ardnamurchan either this year or last year (memory fails me). This year my mate has about six months experience under his belt and he ran the same roads in the pissing rain and wind and didn't struggle on his SV650.
I'm not denying some bikes could do it better. I'm just saying the original point is not correct to say that sportsbikes aren't suited to either the climate or the highlands, it's just people trying to rationalise their bike choice. The reality is all out adventure bikes are no more ridiculous than all out sportsbikes on these roads. These are public maintained roads which are in reasonable order they require no specialist equipment or training.
The point is, surely, that any bike will do. Kevin Saunders (?) took an R1 round the world, including deserts, kind of making the point that a dedicated Adventure bike isn't entirely necessary. I'm not denying some bikes could do it better. I'm just saying the original point is not correct to say that sportsbikes aren't suited to either the climate or the highlands, it's just people trying to rationalise their bike choice. The reality is all out adventure bikes are no more ridiculous than all out sportsbikes on these roads. These are public maintained roads which are in reasonable order they require no specialist equipment or training.
I did the same roads as you years ago on a Laverda Jota, so I'm not averse to doing them on a sports bike, it's just that if you had a choice and a very fat wallet, there are any number of bikes that would suit those roads better than a sports bike. I've passed (going the other way!) any number of Ducati's, ZX10's, Fireblades, S1000SR, RSV4's etc on those roads, but equally I've caught a fair few as well, and that was down to the bike, not my riding ability.
Look in the car park at the Applecross Inn, and see what types have crossed the Beallach na Ba. It's a real mix of types, from all over Europe, but leaning towards the tourer or adventure type slightly more.
Anyway, I'm too fat for a decent sports bike!
Edited by Prof Prolapse on Wednesday 22 July 17:37[/footnote]
[footnote]Edited by Mad Jock on Wednesday 22 July 17:59Mad Jock said:
moanthebairns said:
Why would you choose to ride on asinine track "farm" road on a bike. I can think of nothing worse and more tedious
It's no more tedious than going round and round the same track in never ending circles. I know that you've got the track day bug, but that's not for everyone. You're turning in to a LoonR1 Mini Me. moanthebairns said:
I enjoy road riding. But single track riding today in Britain is my idea of hell. It's just too risky.
Actually I agree with you, single track roads are not always fun or particularly safe, but sometimes that's all you have to get to your destination. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're hell, there are some good one's too, as I'm sure Prof Prolapse will attest. Your Street Triple would be pretty good for some of them.Mad Jock said:
moanthebairns said:
I enjoy road riding. But single track riding today in Britain is my idea of hell. It's just too risky.
Actually I agree with you, single track roads are not always fun or particularly safe, but sometimes that's all you have to get to your destination. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're hell, there are some good one's too, as I'm sure Prof Prolapse will attest. Your Street Triple would be pretty good for some of them.moanthebairns said:
Mad Jock said:
moanthebairns said:
I enjoy road riding. But single track riding today in Britain is my idea of hell. It's just too risky.
Actually I agree with you, single track roads are not always fun or particularly safe, but sometimes that's all you have to get to your destination. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're hell, there are some good one's too, as I'm sure Prof Prolapse will attest. Your Street Triple would have been pretty good for some of them.Mad Jock said:
Single track, narrow, blind crests and corners, sight lines obstructed by tress, it was not a good road for a sports bike, and there are plenty like that in the North West Highlands. Lochinver to Achiltibuie is a good example.
All of that and more on our trip! I got the Pan Euro airborne a few times, often sub-60mph, even losing the satnav on one landing.I wasn't intending to name roads but the one up past an RSPB reserve was amusing, as was Loch Tay and the A821 Duke's Pass into Aberfoyle... and the bit down to Kyle of Lochalsh from...er... somewhere. Shame the guy we encountered on a Coventry-plated Monster seemed a bit timid (although being the old aircooled motor like the 1100 Multistrada he'd have had to work hard to keep it on the boil).
If you want to give it large then you could do worse than the A72 from Peebles to Selkirk and on down the A7 to Longtown but don't blame me if PC Bobby Copper knows about it
Then there was the shop-cum-petrol station on a crossroads, gathering stormclouds over Eilean Donan, the BMW 1600 rider who'd come all the way from Germany to hog the entire bloody road... roll on next year
Prof Prolapse said:
I'm curious why do you think the roads don't suit sportsbikes? Only I ride the highlands fairly regularly and I have only ever thought the opposite. I was there just last month at Dunnet's head on my CBR600F and my mate on his SV650. In the rain and mental wind. Didn't phase either of us.
The only advantage in my experience is that you can cover distance more comfortably, but that's the same anywhere and nothing to do with the highlands or the roads.
ETA: I should say I am aware that my bike nor my mates are proper sportsbikes.
Granted you can ride any road on any bike, just some are harder work than others (roads as well as bikes). Fast sweeping A-road or winding B-road? Sports bike no problem. Twisty, nadgery, single-track, potholes, gravel, cowsThe only advantage in my experience is that you can cover distance more comfortably, but that's the same anywhere and nothing to do with the highlands or the roads.
ETA: I should say I am aware that my bike nor my mates are proper sportsbikes.
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