Discussion
George111 said:
spareparts said:
bass gt3 said:
Based on what?? What secret sauce dos the GS have that makes it so unassailably fast on "normal" roads?? Why do people bang on about them being fast in the real world? They're not. 125 bhp, 250 kgs is NOT fast.
Yes, they can be hustled, but that applies to ANY bike, not just GS's.....
Because it makes going as fast as a-public-road-with-other-road-users-and-furniture would allow, easy. Yes, they can be hustled, but that applies to ANY bike, not just GS's.....
Rider benefits:
- you have big confidence to get on the throttle early and use the torque to drive/accelerate harder and get up to a [limited] speed faster. The prodigious torque allows you to deploy 90ftlbs _constantly_ at easily maintained revs instead of maintaining revs at 10-14k rpm of a sportsbike.
- Better stability when maintaining 4-7k rpm instead of 10-14k rpm.
- The suspension makes you impervious to conditions where ultra sensitive USD suspension would suggest backing off.
- The upright ergos, wide bars, and size/height of the bike give comfort, visibility, and ergos that allow easy comandeering of the bike through/around traffic where a sportsbike means you have less visibility. You just see more and over more miles.
- Tank range of 200+ miles allows you to keep going farther for longer in comfort. Ever overtaken a slow moving HGV to have to re-overtake it after your fuel stop?
If you are on open roads (ie, sweepers in SA or Spain or suchlike), then a sportsbike is definitely faster as long as you are prepared to cruise over the legal speed limit. In England, where you are constantly blighted by 30/40/50/70 zones, then you will go as fast as you can accelerate and navigate ahead within that approximate speed range.
All that being said, I still love taking my Ducati or SP2 out for the kicks. Am I much slower? Not a lot, and many times faster, but will need to stop more often for fuel/rest etc. But the benefits are all reasons why adventure bikes are great for long distance.
Edited by spareparts on Wednesday 29th July 12:10
This argument is getting silly because it all comes down to the rider - I remember being at Brands Hatch years ago on a track day and thinking I've just got the hang of Paddock Hill bend, tucked down and winding it on only for somebody who was an ex Honda racer to come past me, on the outside, looking behind him holding on with one hand . . . there's always somebody faster . . . that's the nice thing about bikes, in a car any idiot can go reasonably fast, on a bike it takes a particular sort of idiot
spareparts said:
George111 said:
spareparts said:
bass gt3 said:
Based on what?? What secret sauce dos the GS have that makes it so unassailably fast on "normal" roads?? Why do people bang on about them being fast in the real world? They're not. 125 bhp, 250 kgs is NOT fast.
Yes, they can be hustled, but that applies to ANY bike, not just GS's.....
Because it makes going as fast as a-public-road-with-other-road-users-and-furniture would allow, easy. Yes, they can be hustled, but that applies to ANY bike, not just GS's.....
Rider benefits:
- you have big confidence to get on the throttle early and use the torque to drive/accelerate harder and get up to a [limited] speed faster. The prodigious torque allows you to deploy 90ftlbs _constantly_ at easily maintained revs instead of maintaining revs at 10-14k rpm of a sportsbike.
- Better stability when maintaining 4-7k rpm instead of 10-14k rpm.
- The suspension makes you impervious to conditions where ultra sensitive USD suspension would suggest backing off.
- The upright ergos, wide bars, and size/height of the bike give comfort, visibility, and ergos that allow easy comandeering of the bike through/around traffic where a sportsbike means you have less visibility. You just see more and over more miles.
- Tank range of 200+ miles allows you to keep going farther for longer in comfort. Ever overtaken a slow moving HGV to have to re-overtake it after your fuel stop?
If you are on open roads (ie, sweepers in SA or Spain or suchlike), then a sportsbike is definitely faster as long as you are prepared to cruise over the legal speed limit. In England, where you are constantly blighted by 30/40/50/70 zones, then you will go as fast as you can accelerate and navigate ahead within that approximate speed range.
All that being said, I still love taking my Ducati or SP2 out for the kicks. Am I much slower? Not a lot, and many times faster, but will need to stop more often for fuel/rest etc. But the benefits are all reasons why adventure bikes are great for long distance.
Edited by spareparts on Wednesday 29th July 12:10
This argument is getting silly because it all comes down to the rider - I remember being at Brands Hatch years ago on a track day and thinking I've just got the hang of Paddock Hill bend, tucked down and winding it on only for somebody who was an ex Honda racer to come past me, on the outside, looking behind him holding on with one hand . . . there's always somebody faster . . . that's the nice thing about bikes, in a car any idiot can go reasonably fast, on a bike it takes a particular sort of idiot
I don't understand why people need to condemn the GS or alternatively make excuses for it. It's just a bike, just because the wannabe long way round people have adopted it doesn't mean anything. I'm not put off sports bikes because the all-the-gear-no-idea boys who do 500 miles a year in matching, white polished leathers and white boots also like them . . . who gives a sh*t and those that do are missing a big chunk of happinesses in their lives
Andy XRV said:
Personally I think the GS falls into the same camp as the modern cafe racer and HD's where a good percentage of people buy them because they aspire to the perceived lifestyle. They then buy all the gear and when they ride them it's like some form of adult reenactment of the Long Way Round. That doesn't make them bad people but it's certainly not for me.
Oh yes, that's vastly different from people wearing one piece leathers on a race replica to bimble around Lancashire as though they're John McGuiness on valium, isn't it? Wedg1e said:
One of our clan was a die-hard ZZR600 fan (well, that's what he bought having passed his test). Took it to the Alps for a tour, came back and sold it, bought a GS - and was 15mph faster on average.
Three of my mates ride Multistradas and whilst they aren't the last word in weatherproof, show one a properly twisty road and it's a determined sportsbike rider who can keep up - and all three of those owners have owned the gamut from RD250s to R1s, Tuonos to V-Maxes, FS1Es to Fireblades.
This is complete bThree of my mates ride Multistradas and whilst they aren't the last word in weatherproof, show one a properly twisty road and it's a determined sportsbike rider who can keep up - and all three of those owners have owned the gamut from RD250s to R1s, Tuonos to V-Maxes, FS1Es to Fireblades.
ks.Recently came back from a 3 day high speed euro jaunt, me and mate on sports bikes, other mate on a Multistrada. We all swapped bikes and rode some lovely twisty roads around Spa. Multistrada did a fair job, but when we upped the pace it was left behind.
Don't get me wrong the MS was OK, but sports bikes are designed for going fast round corners
I bought my GSA purely because of its size, being a big bloke ruled out many other bikes. Even the GSA is a little small for me. It's my first ever bike and ticked the boxes that needed ticking at the time. Having owned it for a year I absolutely love it and have done loads on it over such a short period of ownership such as bikesafe, track days, IAM pass, European tours etc. my next box to tick is the BMW off-road course. Can't wait.
Reardy Mister said:
Andy XRV said:
Personally I think the GS falls into the same camp as the modern cafe racer and HD's where a good percentage of people buy them because they aspire to the perceived lifestyle. They then buy all the gear and when they ride them it's like some form of adult reenactment of the Long Way Round. That doesn't make them bad people but it's certainly not for me.
Oh yes, that's vastly different from people wearing one piece leathers on a race replica to bimble around Lancashire as though they're John McGuiness on valium, isn't it? LeadFarmer said:
I bought my GSA purely because of its size, being a big bloke ruled out many other bikes. Even the GSA is a little small for me. It's my first ever bike and ticked the boxes that needed ticking at the time. Having owned it for a year I absolutely love it and have done loads on it over such a short period of ownership such as bikesafe, track days, IAM pass, European tours etc. my next box to tick is the BMW off-road course. Can't wait.
I thought you rode a Honda Crosstourer and lived in France?As has been said, GS’s (and most adventure bikes in general) are very competent road bikes, with good, comfortable seating positions, forgiving suspension and ample low and mid range torque (more important on the road than power) to make covering miles quickly an easy proposition. They’re not as fast as sports bikes but most roads, especially roads you don’t ride regularly (such as when touring) can’t be ridden safely anywhere near the performance limit of most bikes over 500cc so ultimate performance is largely irrelevant.
GS’s tend to be bought by riders with lot’s more riding experience, They’ve done the "sports bike thing" and found that, for journeys of more than 20 miles, it’s not your top speed or your rate of acceleration that makes for a fast ride, but your ability to maintain a safe and comfortable fast average speed.
This combination of competent bike and experienced rider tends to make for fast combination. Sure, for any given 1 to 2 mile stretch of road, be it fast sweepers, Alpine hairpins or dead straight , sports bikes (and other types of bike) will/could be faster but extend that run out to 50+ miles and the GS will be hard to keep up with. Extend it further to 250+ miles and add in the requirement for luggage (and possibly a pillion) and the GS really comes into it’s own.
That said, I’ve ridden GS’s and I don’t like them. For me, they’re too tall and too heavy at slow speeds. They never give that stomach knotting, Cheshire Cat grin inducing performance which I find is important to me (even if I don’t use it that often.). They offer some off road potential that I’d never use (as most GS riders don’t) so hence I end up with a road based sports tourer. For me, it offers most of the best bits of a sports bike and most of the best bits of an adventure bike.
GS’s tend to be bought by riders with lot’s more riding experience, They’ve done the "sports bike thing" and found that, for journeys of more than 20 miles, it’s not your top speed or your rate of acceleration that makes for a fast ride, but your ability to maintain a safe and comfortable fast average speed.
This combination of competent bike and experienced rider tends to make for fast combination. Sure, for any given 1 to 2 mile stretch of road, be it fast sweepers, Alpine hairpins or dead straight , sports bikes (and other types of bike) will/could be faster but extend that run out to 50+ miles and the GS will be hard to keep up with. Extend it further to 250+ miles and add in the requirement for luggage (and possibly a pillion) and the GS really comes into it’s own.
That said, I’ve ridden GS’s and I don’t like them. For me, they’re too tall and too heavy at slow speeds. They never give that stomach knotting, Cheshire Cat grin inducing performance which I find is important to me (even if I don’t use it that often.). They offer some off road potential that I’d never use (as most GS riders don’t) so hence I end up with a road based sports tourer. For me, it offers most of the best bits of a sports bike and most of the best bits of an adventure bike.
The comments that a GS isn't fast are subjective.
I think that going fast is those rare times that your cruising along a nice sweepy A Road around 90 - 100.
The GS is good at that sort of speeds... over 3 figures the engine starts to work a bit too hard.
A sportsbike will obviously have no issues going way above 3 figure speeds. If that's your sort of thing then the GS is a complete piece of crap that you should avoid.
I think that going fast is those rare times that your cruising along a nice sweepy A Road around 90 - 100.
The GS is good at that sort of speeds... over 3 figures the engine starts to work a bit too hard.
A sportsbike will obviously have no issues going way above 3 figure speeds. If that's your sort of thing then the GS is a complete piece of crap that you should avoid.
black-k1 said:
As has been said, GS’s (and most adventure bikes in general) are very competent road bikes, with good, comfortable seating positions, forgiving suspension and ample low and mid range torque (more important on the road than power) to make covering miles quickly an easy proposition. They’re not as fast as sports bikes but most roads, especially roads you don’t ride regularly (such as when touring) can’t be ridden safely anywhere near the performance limit of most bikes over 500cc so ultimate performance is largely irrelevant.
GS’s tend to be bought by riders with lot’s more riding experience, They’ve done the "sports bike thing" and found that, for journeys of more than 20 miles, it’s not your top speed or your rate of acceleration that makes for a fast ride, but your ability to maintain a safe and comfortable fast average speed.
This combination of competent bike and experienced rider tends to make for fast combination. Sure, for any given 1 to 2 mile stretch of road, be it fast sweepers, Alpine hairpins or dead straight , sports bikes (and other types of bike) will/could be faster but extend that run out to 50+ miles and the GS will be hard to keep up with. Extend it further to 250+ miles and add in the requirement for luggage (and possibly a pillion) and the GS really comes into it’s own.
Good post.GS’s tend to be bought by riders with lot’s more riding experience, They’ve done the "sports bike thing" and found that, for journeys of more than 20 miles, it’s not your top speed or your rate of acceleration that makes for a fast ride, but your ability to maintain a safe and comfortable fast average speed.
This combination of competent bike and experienced rider tends to make for fast combination. Sure, for any given 1 to 2 mile stretch of road, be it fast sweepers, Alpine hairpins or dead straight , sports bikes (and other types of bike) will/could be faster but extend that run out to 50+ miles and the GS will be hard to keep up with. Extend it further to 250+ miles and add in the requirement for luggage (and possibly a pillion) and the GS really comes into it’s own.
George111 said:
....all-the-gear-no-idea boys who do 500 miles a year in matching, white polished leathers and white boots....
Good god, like a high speed tic-tac?Fieldsheer "acid worms" are kind of retro cool, but what WTF category would those bad boys slot into? Michael Jackson pastiches?
Andy XRV said:
Personally I think the GS falls into the same camp as the modern cafe racer and HD's where a good percentage of people buy them because they aspire to the perceived lifestyle. They then buy all the gear and when they ride them it's like some form of adult reenactment of the Long Way Round. That doesn't make them bad people but it's certainly not for me.
Shame the thread has turned into tribalism. I get to meet quite a lot of bikers for various reasons, and plenty of GS riders. From those I've met the great majority are highly experienced bikers with a few bob to spend on their passion, but have got over their riding-like-like-their-hair-is-on-fire days, even if they often have a sports or classic bike in the garage as well. They find the GS's combination of do-anything go-anywhere practicality, comfort, and easy performance perfect, and none I can recall aspire to any sort of BMW 'lifestyle'.
I've got one, if I've got the panniers on its because they're stuffed with laptop and clothes etc for a week's working away from home on a contract.
SS7
Andy XRV said:
Reardy Mister said:
Andy XRV said:
Personally I think the GS falls into the same camp as the modern cafe racer and HD's where a good percentage of people buy them because they aspire to the perceived lifestyle. They then buy all the gear and when they ride them it's like some form of adult reenactment of the Long Way Round. That doesn't make them bad people but it's certainly not for me.
Oh yes, that's vastly different from people wearing one piece leathers on a race replica to bimble around Lancashire as though they're John McGuiness on valium, isn't it? Reardy Mister said:
Andy XRV said:
Reardy Mister said:
Andy XRV said:
Personally I think the GS falls into the same camp as the modern cafe racer and HD's where a good percentage of people buy them because they aspire to the perceived lifestyle. They then buy all the gear and when they ride them it's like some form of adult reenactment of the Long Way Round. That doesn't make them bad people but it's certainly not for me.
Oh yes, that's vastly different from people wearing one piece leathers on a race replica to bimble around Lancashire as though they're John McGuiness on valium, isn't it? I've got a battered 05 GS. I wear branded textiles on the way to work. Do I want to be Charlie or Ewen? Not even remotely.
I've got a sportsbike. Do I want to be Rossi/Marquez.... Not really. Do I want to look like them. Not really.
I'm confused as to why riding a specific bike suggests I will have a certain opinion or style?
Surely people get over wanting to ape someone else by the time they're past 25, other than the really sad individuals out there?
I have had sports bikes since getting off my 125.
Two R6's and a Zx10r. I prefer thee older R6 because its a bit bigger and a little softer on my wrists. On the road its just as fast as the newer one. I guess round track it would be a bit slower.
Had the 2001 R6 for 7 years and only sold it last month. Covered about 30k on it in those 7 years. An average of just over 4k a year. Not much really... (Although a lot more miles than i do in my TVR).
Recently started a job that requires a lot of travel in to London. The R6 on a commute was intolerable. Sure it got me there and did it quickly. But quickly was the problem. Sitting on the motorway through the 50mph roadworks, then to 60 / 50 / 40 MPH long stretches of the M4 / A4 in to London whilst flattening off the center of the sticky rear tyre just was not right. Not to mention its not the most comfortable bike to ride for over an hour. I ended up doing stupid speeds just to get home and get off the thing. I want to keep my license, so...
I started to mod the bike. Heated grips, little phone holder, extended windscreen. The sports bike was becoming a lot less sporty and a lot more like a sports tourer.
My back was hurting from having a heavy laptop bag on my back and my wrists were hurting. 2+ hours a day on a sports bike... on a motorway is not fun. And then i was having to adjust the chain every week and lube it every other day. Rear tires life expectancy of about 4k were getting eaten up in 3/4 months ware as it used to be once a year.
So... i got a 2014 GS LC. Not the full blown adventure but the "Touring" version. (They are all mostly the same anyway)
I now have a bike that suits the job i intend to use it for. It sits on the motorway at 70.... ish doing 60+ mpg. Its quiet, offers good safety devices and weather protection. Cruise control gives you a great rest through the stupid speed limits and the sat nav unit tells you about traffic, weather, different / quicker routes. Twisty routes, updates my missus on when i will be home (Tracker option) so she can get the dinner on. And even plays my favorite Britny Spears records at me.
My other commute is 50 miles through the Oxfordshire country side. Twisty B roads make up all of this commute. And i am quicker on the GS than i am on the R6. The GS handles exceptionally well for its size but not as well as the R6. The reason its faster is not because its a superbike eater, but because it is consistent and forgiving. Clipping some mud from a farmers field in the cold and wet on the R6 would have you in his field. The GS takes it in its stride, occasionally with a flash from the "saved your ass" light.
And that brings me to safety features. Why would you not have them? Yes they take away some of the "Rawness" of biking. But in the milky eyed morning commute having been up half the night with a newborn, they are a very much welcome addition. And if wheelies are your thing, you can turn them off.
On a track, yes surprise surprise the "super bike" will be faster. Because its doing what it was designed for. However, the GS wont be as far behind as you think!
Now, the GS does have its down sides.
1. Cost
2. Its big, filtering is not as easy as it could be. But still surprisingly good
3. Its heavy
4. Its a BMW, servicing will cost you.
5. Gearbox requires a lot of learning to get that smooth gear change (Rev matching is the key)
But at the end of the day its a tool for a job. The requirements for that job have changed, and so has the tool.
Don't hate on the GS rider because he uses biking for a different purpose.
Two R6's and a Zx10r. I prefer thee older R6 because its a bit bigger and a little softer on my wrists. On the road its just as fast as the newer one. I guess round track it would be a bit slower.
Had the 2001 R6 for 7 years and only sold it last month. Covered about 30k on it in those 7 years. An average of just over 4k a year. Not much really... (Although a lot more miles than i do in my TVR).
Recently started a job that requires a lot of travel in to London. The R6 on a commute was intolerable. Sure it got me there and did it quickly. But quickly was the problem. Sitting on the motorway through the 50mph roadworks, then to 60 / 50 / 40 MPH long stretches of the M4 / A4 in to London whilst flattening off the center of the sticky rear tyre just was not right. Not to mention its not the most comfortable bike to ride for over an hour. I ended up doing stupid speeds just to get home and get off the thing. I want to keep my license, so...
I started to mod the bike. Heated grips, little phone holder, extended windscreen. The sports bike was becoming a lot less sporty and a lot more like a sports tourer.
My back was hurting from having a heavy laptop bag on my back and my wrists were hurting. 2+ hours a day on a sports bike... on a motorway is not fun. And then i was having to adjust the chain every week and lube it every other day. Rear tires life expectancy of about 4k were getting eaten up in 3/4 months ware as it used to be once a year.
So... i got a 2014 GS LC. Not the full blown adventure but the "Touring" version. (They are all mostly the same anyway)
I now have a bike that suits the job i intend to use it for. It sits on the motorway at 70.... ish doing 60+ mpg. Its quiet, offers good safety devices and weather protection. Cruise control gives you a great rest through the stupid speed limits and the sat nav unit tells you about traffic, weather, different / quicker routes. Twisty routes, updates my missus on when i will be home (Tracker option) so she can get the dinner on. And even plays my favorite Britny Spears records at me.
My other commute is 50 miles through the Oxfordshire country side. Twisty B roads make up all of this commute. And i am quicker on the GS than i am on the R6. The GS handles exceptionally well for its size but not as well as the R6. The reason its faster is not because its a superbike eater, but because it is consistent and forgiving. Clipping some mud from a farmers field in the cold and wet on the R6 would have you in his field. The GS takes it in its stride, occasionally with a flash from the "saved your ass" light.
And that brings me to safety features. Why would you not have them? Yes they take away some of the "Rawness" of biking. But in the milky eyed morning commute having been up half the night with a newborn, they are a very much welcome addition. And if wheelies are your thing, you can turn them off.
On a track, yes surprise surprise the "super bike" will be faster. Because its doing what it was designed for. However, the GS wont be as far behind as you think!
Now, the GS does have its down sides.
1. Cost
2. Its big, filtering is not as easy as it could be. But still surprisingly good
3. Its heavy
4. Its a BMW, servicing will cost you.
5. Gearbox requires a lot of learning to get that smooth gear change (Rev matching is the key)
But at the end of the day its a tool for a job. The requirements for that job have changed, and so has the tool.
Don't hate on the GS rider because he uses biking for a different purpose.
fergus said:
Reardy Mister said:
Andy XRV said:
Reardy Mister said:
Andy XRV said:
Personally I think the GS falls into the same camp as the modern cafe racer and HD's where a good percentage of people buy them because they aspire to the perceived lifestyle. They then buy all the gear and when they ride them it's like some form of adult reenactment of the Long Way Round. That doesn't make them bad people but it's certainly not for me.
Oh yes, that's vastly different from people wearing one piece leathers on a race replica to bimble around Lancashire as though they're John McGuiness on valium, isn't it? I've got a battered 05 GS. I wear branded textiles on the way to work. Do I want to be Charlie or Ewen? Not even remotely.
I've got a sportsbike. Do I want to be Rossi/Marquez.... Not really. Do I want to look like them. Not really.
I'm confused as to why riding a specific bike suggests I will have a certain opinion or style?
Surely people get over wanting to ape someone else by the time they're past 25, other than the really sad individuals out there?
ken crazy. And to be fair, it always has been. Nothing posted in here of late is new. Mods, rockers, 2 smokes or twins vs 4s, air vs water cooled, shaft vs belt vs chain drive blah blah. Its like a load of trades people all of sudden saying that swb Transits are the best and hi-line Sprinters are ste (other crap analogies are available). Do what I did, buy a wannabee police touring bike without even riding it, wear your 15 year old sportsbike kit on it, ride it badly on a 20mile commute, complain its nothing like a sports bike and you maybe should have bought an adventure bike after all and no can accuse you of f
k all. 
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