Skipping The Queues at Traffic Lights

[ShaunTheSheep]

When I filter to the front of a queue at traffic lights, where is it better to position myself:

In front of the lead vehicle - which means being over or at least on top of the stop line.

Or

At the side of the lead vehicle - which usually means I can stay inside the lane markings and not risk a talking to from the BiB.

[bass gt3]

Just stay to the side. as soon as the lights change you'll be 50 meters up the road before he driver knows what's happened.
Pulling in front can sometimes antagonise people despite the fact they won't see the going of you.

[Moulder]

bass gt3 said:

Just stay to the side. as soon as the lights change you'll be 50 meters up the road before he driver knows what's happened.
Pulling in front can sometimes antagonise people despite the fact they won't see the going of you.

All situations are different but I largely agree with this, when looking over my shoulder a few seconds after setting off after the lights change I am always surprised quite how little progress cars have made. Obvious caveats are filter lanes to the right or if the driver can inexplicably squash you against a traffic island.

[black-k1]

Try and get in front of the vehicle beside you. If you're in front then they can't go until you do. While a bikes 0-60 or standing quarter mile time is significantly faster than most cars, the 0-30 times are a lot closer. If the driver knows the lights phasing and is ruthless off the line, at the same time as you are just quick rather than really trying, you may find yourself still beside the car half way across the junction, with the on-coming traffic or the traffic light pole and island directly in your path. You now have very few options!

[LeftmostAardvark]

black-k1 said:

Try and get in front of the vehicle beside you. If you're in front then they can't go until you do. While a bikes 0-60 or standing quarter mile time is significantly faster than most cars, the 0-30 times are a lot closer. If the driver knows the lights phasing and is ruthless off the line, at the same time as you are just quick rather than really trying, you may find yourself still beside the car half way across the junction, with the on-coming traffic or the traffic light pole and island directly in your path. You now have very few options!

Yeah, I angle myself just far across their front that they would need to steer around me if they wanted to try and beat me off the lights. I also, where possible, make brief eye contact with the driver - it tends to give me a feel for whether they're about to do anything stupid. Only had one incident doing this - chavved-up corsa kept revving and edging forward so I knew he was going to take off so I made damn sure I wasn't anywhere near him by the time he'd got the car moving,

[Tim85]

black-k1 said:

Try and get in front of the vehicle beside you. If you're in front then they can't go until you do. While a bikes 0-60 or standing quarter mile time is significantly faster than most cars, the 0-30 times are a lot closer. If the driver knows the lights phasing and is ruthless off the line, at the same time as you are just quick rather than really trying, you may find yourself still beside the car half way across the junction, with the on-coming traffic or the traffic light pole and island directly in your path. You now have very few options!

I do this as much as possible. Whilst I dont commute so only use my bike for fun runs so spend minimal time in traffic when I do I always try to position my self in front of the first car, even if it's just angled so the driver can see. It might not be the best in keeping the driver cool, but I feel safer and I'm selfish.
I'm probably not best to listen to though as I use those bike bits if there's no room in front of the first car as well, not sure your supposed to but there's not a ton of cyclists round where I live and I've done it in front of police and never had slapped wrists....yet.
I also live in Yorkshire so it's only the odd horse and cart and canal boat I need to filter passed rather than your flying cars you have in the big smoke.

[Moulder]

LeftmostAardvark said:

black-k1 said:

Try and get in front of the vehicle beside you. If you're in front then they can't go until you do. While a bikes 0-60 or standing quarter mile time is significantly faster than most cars, the 0-30 times are a lot closer. If the driver knows the lights phasing and is ruthless off the line, at the same time as you are just quick rather than really trying, you may find yourself still beside the car half way across the junction, with the on-coming traffic or the traffic light pole and island directly in your path. You now have very few options!

Yeah, I angle myself just far across their front that they would need to steer around me if they wanted to try and beat me off the lights. I also, where possible, make brief eye contact with the driver - it tends to give me a feel for whether they're about to do anything stupid. Only had one incident doing this - chavved-up corsa kept revving and edging forward so I knew he was going to take off so I made damn sure I wasn't anywhere near him by the time he'd got the car moving,

Loathe to say this having said on another thread about how threads are degenerating into arguments, but I am surprised you have only had one incident. These posts read as; beware, the car next to you may be just as quick, having done what may be perceived as pushing in make sure you impede their progress so you can definitely get away first.

If I saw you were on a 400 and did this to you because I was on a 1000 would you be happy?

[LeftmostAardvark]

Moulder said:

Loathe to say this having said on another thread about how threads are degenerating into arguments, but I am surprised you have only had one incident. These posts read as; beware, the car next to you may be just as quick, having done what may be perceived as pushing in make sure you impede their progress so you can definitely get away first.

If I saw you were on a 400 and did this to you because I was on a 1000 would you be happy?

No argument, I know could be seen as a little inconsiderate (although actually isn't as I'm gone before any of the car drivers have even registered I'm in their way). Trouble is, I feel I have to ride this way in order to minimise the impact of anyone else's driving - it is defensive. Of course it helps that I ride a mahoosive black cruiser with unsociably loud pipes - I think they're just pleased that I go away quite quickly and stop vibrating their windscreen.

[croyde]

I always angle across the car in front. It's not about being polite, it's about staying alive.

I use a car mostly these days and rather bikes did that to me than stay alongside.

Make yourself seen even if it means being selfish.

[ShaunTheSheep]

Ahhh just when I thought there was some consensus forming. Wayy to help a newbie guys ;-)

I'm joking of course, I appreciate the help.

When I pulled in front once I definitely trod on someone's inferiority complex. I checked the mirror just at the other side of the junction expecting to see the lead car just setting off but no, it was barely a bike length behind me. All it took was a little twist further and it disappeared but still...

At the side I've had the opposite, I do make eye contact and maybe I've just been lucky but they definitely have an "after you" approach - which is unnecessary but appreciated.

If I'm going to queue jump the least I can do is disappear promptly and not hold anyone up.

Thanks guys

[456GT]

LeftmostAardvark said:

Yeah, I angle myself just far across their front that they would need to steer around me if they wanted to try and beat me off the lights. I also, where possible, make brief eye contact with the driver - it tends to give me a feel for whether they're about to do anything stupid. Only had one incident doing this - chavved-up corsa kept revving and edging forward so I knew he was going to take off so I made damn sure I wasn't anywhere near him by the time he'd got the car moving,

In this situation, I'd be tempted to just let the car go. I'd have already filtered past several cars so I'm still 'making progress'. And if there is more traffic up ahead, I'll be soon past the revvy Corsa!

[black-k1]

Riding safely is all about you making sure you have space and options. Your options should be things that you can/will do and not things that you need other road users to do. If avoiding a difficult situation/ accident is dependant upon another road user actually doing something (other than maintaining their existing path) then you are not safe.

Likewise, if your riding decisions make other road users change their path/speed then you are not being considerate.

Moving in front of a stationary vehicle does not make it change its path or speed. As long as you are away quickly, you’ve also not held it up. There will always be the occasional idiot with an ego but being in front makes sure they are kept (as safely as possible) behind you. Being beside them puts you in the position of not doing the things defined above and thus both at risk and likely to have to be inconsiderate.

[zonkkk]

If there are traffic lights, I always go in front of the first car so they can see me.
If there is a queue at a junction with no traffic lights I always stop between the first and second car.
I don't want to obstruct the first car driver's view.

[LeftmostAardvark]

456GT said:

In this situation, I'd be tempted to just let the car go. I'd have already filtered past several cars so I'm still 'making progress'. And if there is more traffic up ahead, I'll be soon past the revvy Corsa!

But then you're stuck with the hope that car number 2 will let you into the flow of traffic and that may already be moving, which breaks black-k1's sage advice.

[LeftmostAardvark]

A good way to gauge car driver's attitude to you is when filtering on a stationary motorway. If they adjust their position to assist you they're probably not pissed off with you, if they try and block you, then they probably are. I would generally say the ratio of help:hinder has always been far in excess of 100:1.

[Moily]

Either edged in front where they can definitely see you or tucked in between the 1st and 2nd cars.

NEVER at the side as invariably there will be islands, pedestrians stepping out, oncoming traffic or whatever, and you're reliant on the lead car heading off in a straight line and sticking to it. There's also a greater chance that the lead car isn't aware of you because you're hidden at the side or in a blind spot.

[456GT]

LeftmostAardvark said:

456GT said:

In this situation, I'd be tempted to just let the car go. I'd have already filtered past several cars so I'm still 'making progress'. And if there is more traffic up ahead, I'll be soon past the revvy Corsa!

But then you're stuck with the hope that car number 2 will let you into the flow of traffic and that may already be moving, which breaks black-k1's sage advice.

If the Corsa is making a keen getaway, there will be a gap behind him. Unless the guy behind is racing him...

It depends on the junction and other factors but if a car driver is being a d*ck, I'll let him go and then pass him when he's slowed down by traffic. I'd rather have an idiot in front of me where I can see him! And then I'll overtake when I can get past him and a couple of other cars.

[Moily]

black-k1 said:

Riding safely is all about you making sure you have space and options. Your options should be things that you can/will do and not things that you need other road users to do. If avoiding a difficult situation/ accident is dependant upon another road user actually doing something (other than maintaining their existing path) then you are not safe.

Likewise, if your riding decisions make other road users change their path/speed then you are not being considerate.

Moving in front of a stationary vehicle does not make it change its path or speed. As long as you are away quickly, you’ve also not held it up. There will always be the occasional idiot with an ego but being in front makes sure they are kept (as safely as possible) behind you. Being beside them puts you in the position of not doing the things defined above and thus both at risk and likely to have to be inconsiderate.

This x 1000.

[Yoda400]

I commuted and rode a lot for 5 yrs and now ride at weekends, on a 400. Always went to the front of the queue, positioned myself enough in front of the car in front so they could see me, and don't recall ever having a problem with another driver, nor had one try to race me (I'd remember a really hairy experience if it had happened). From my experience, I had no idea that cars and bikes might have similar acceleration up to 30mph, it never seemed that way! It helps to know the lights sequence, because something I'm wary of it filtering to the front and the lights changing while I'm making my way through, and all the cars start moving and jostling with no idea I'm there.

[mitzy]

I go by the side , flutter my eyelashers , smile and then they let me go first

A Smile works wonders