Who would wear a flip front helmet?
Discussion
RemyMartin said:
Ill take anyones opinion on this with a pinch of salt, when said opinion comes from a biker who doubts the existance of countersteering.
ETA its clear this is based on a load of false preconceptions and being opinionated against the riders who wear them.
opinionated ........ checkETA its clear this is based on a load of false preconceptions and being opinionated against the riders who wear them.
Edited by RemyMartin on Monday 3rd August 12:37
Don't believe in counter steering to be ANYTHING ANYONE NEEDS TO ACTIVELY DO .......... check
guilty as charged
julian64 said:
Don't believe in counter steering to be ANYTHING ANYONE NEEDS TO ACTIVELY DO .......... check
guilty as charged
I have had to think about it once or twice, notable on a long ride through Nevada, we were nearing the end of a 560 mile day, I was very cold, going down with tonsillitis, and struggling to concentrate. guilty as charged
The fast (ish, we were on Harleys
) motorway bends were something I, at times, had to consciously remind myself to counter steer through, or more correctly, as I ran wide on several occasions I had to think about it. I did catch myself turning the handlebars towards the apex, which of course stands the bike up and didn't tighten the line like I wanted
.You are right though, assuming you're saying what I think you're saying, it should be instinctive to anyone that's ever ridden a bike of any variety for any distance. I spent my youth throwing a BMX as fast as possible down dirt tracks, footpaths and anything else I could find to ride on, so have a vague idea how to handle two wheels.
I'm a motorbiking novice, of course, but working on that too.
Super Slo Mo said:
julian64 said:
Don't believe in counter steering to be ANYTHING ANYONE NEEDS TO ACTIVELY DO .......... check
guilty as charged
I have had to think about it once or twice, notable on a long ride through Nevada, we were nearing the end of a 560 mile day, I was very cold, going down with tonsillitis, and struggling to concentrate. guilty as charged
The fast (ish, we were on Harleys
) motorway bends were something I, at times, had to consciously remind myself to counter steer through, or more correctly, as I ran wide on several occasions I had to think about it. I did catch myself turning the handlebars towards the apex, which of course stands the bike up and didn't tighten the line like I wanted
.You are right though, assuming you're saying what I think you're saying, it should be instinctive to anyone that's ever ridden a bike of any variety for any distance. I spent my youth throwing a BMX as fast as possible down dirt tracks, footpaths and anything else I could find to ride on, so have a vague idea how to handle two wheels.
I'm a motorbiking novice, of course, but working on that too.
Couldn't do it round bollards of course but on an A road or motorway most of my steering is done with my knees.
Still I reckon superbike school is like real school, you watch, you try the bits they suggest. If it works for you, you keep it with you in your mind, if it doesn't you let it go.
Certainly coutersteering drops the bike into a corner, but even if I don't conciously think about it the bike drops just fine into corners.
julian64 said:
Super Slo Mo said:
julian64 said:
Don't believe in counter steering to be ANYTHING ANYONE NEEDS TO ACTIVELY DO .......... check
guilty as charged
I have had to think about it once or twice, notable on a long ride through Nevada, we were nearing the end of a 560 mile day, I was very cold, going down with tonsillitis, and struggling to concentrate. guilty as charged
The fast (ish, we were on Harleys
) motorway bends were something I, at times, had to consciously remind myself to counter steer through, or more correctly, as I ran wide on several occasions I had to think about it. I did catch myself turning the handlebars towards the apex, which of course stands the bike up and didn't tighten the line like I wanted
.You are right though, assuming you're saying what I think you're saying, it should be instinctive to anyone that's ever ridden a bike of any variety for any distance. I spent my youth throwing a BMX as fast as possible down dirt tracks, footpaths and anything else I could find to ride on, so have a vague idea how to handle two wheels.
I'm a motorbiking novice, of course, but working on that too.
Couldn't do it round bollards of course but on an A road or motorway most of my steering is done with my knees.
Still I reckon superbike school is like real school, you watch, you try the bits they suggest. If it works for you, you keep it with you in your mind, if it doesn't you let it go.
Certainly coutersteering drops the bike into a corner, but even if I don't conciously think about it the bike drops just fine into corners.
The bike drops into the corner anyway because you’re counter steering, if subconsciously.
black-k1 said:
I half agree with your "steering with your knees" comments. You can definitely steer without your hands on the bars by shifting your weight. Using your knees can help you shift your weight, but ... it’s not your knees that are doing the steering though; it’s the movement of your weight.
The bike drops into the corner anyway because you’re counter steering, if subconsciously.
Sort of agree. My bike drops into a corner because I've shoved my half tonne bun off the side of the bike, and the bike has nowher to go other than fall to that side. sometimes even shoving my shoulders to one side is enough to do it. So probably not the knees.The bike drops into the corner anyway because you’re counter steering, if subconsciously.
I remember as a kid on my chopper cycling everywhere with no hands on the bars.
keebz91 said:
I have a Shoei Neotec, I'm 24, 6'1 13 stone (you can decide if I'm overweight) and I ride an XR without any Hi-Viz clothing.
You have plenty of sensible reasons above.
Same here, I have a matt black Shoei NeoTec, am 6'1" 13.5 stone, but ride a ZZR1200 and I don't wear high viz.You have plenty of sensible reasons above.
If you look up the crash rating for this helmet it scores well, it isn't that heavy and I ride with it flipped up 90% of the time (including in the winter), on my own, at high speed. With the chin up I have better peripheral vision, particularly when filtering and is also useful for talking clearly to numpties. I also have built in speakers fitted for some entertainment which I can hear at all speeds.
OP - unless you have tried wearing a flip lid I suggest you stop making wrong assumptions based on your own prejudices about them and actually try one, a decent one preferably, you might actually like it....
julian64 said:
black-k1 said:
I half agree with your "steering with your knees" comments. You can definitely steer without your hands on the bars by shifting your weight. Using your knees can help you shift your weight, but ... it’s not your knees that are doing the steering though; it’s the movement of your weight.
The bike drops into the corner anyway because you’re counter steering, if subconsciously.
Sort of agree. My bike drops into a corner because I've shoved my half tonne bun off the side of the bike, and the bike has nowher to go other than fall to that side. sometimes even shoving my shoulders to one side is enough to do it. So probably not the knees.The bike drops into the corner anyway because you’re counter steering, if subconsciously.
I remember as a kid on my chopper cycling everywhere with no hands on the bars.
(top thread high-jacking Renn!)
ETA: Op I just noticed you own/had a Diversion. And *you're* making sweeping generalisations?!
julian64 said:
Sort of agree. My bike drops into a corner because I've shoved my half tonne bun off the side of the bike, and the bike has nowher to go other than fall to that side. sometimes even shoving my shoulders to one side is enough to do it. So probably not the knees.
I remember as a kid on my chopper cycling everywhere with no hands on the bars.
Sort of I remember as a kid on my chopper cycling everywhere with no hands on the bars.
. It drops into a corner because you tilt the bike to one side, and the castor that's built into the front end of the bike means the bars move slightly away from the corner. In other words, it naturally counter steers if you lean the bike. I used to be a bit of a no-hands expert as a kid, my permanent missing front tooth is evidence of my learning curve in this respect. I was faster on my BMX with my arms folded than the fat kid from up the road on his 10 speed 'racer'. Up until the point I went bouncing down the road on my bonce anyway.
Anyway, we're getting off topic.
Reardy Mister said:
I think you're attributing the bike's behaviour purely to what your body is doing, ignoring the interim effect on the bike in order to achieve it. There is no doubt that in a long sweeper, if you need to get it over further, you push the inside bar away. No matter how you squint, that's a conscious counter steer.
(top thread high-jacking Renn!)
ETA: Op I just noticed you own/had a Diversion. And *you're* making sweeping generalisations?!
That diversion was haunted. Not sure if you saw the thread but a PH'er bought it off me and a couple of days leter nearly killed himself. I had quite an argument on my hands with my wife to retain any sort of motorcycle after that episode.(top thread high-jacking Renn!)
ETA: Op I just noticed you own/had a Diversion. And *you're* making sweeping generalisations?!
Anyhoo, anyone apart from me hate flip ups or is it another example of it being my problem that I don't get it? Any racers use them?
I have a flip and has always been okay until my recent Morrisons experience.
To be fair, I rarely have the flip up when riding, even at low speeds. However, if you are stuck in traffic on a hot day it is lovely have up when filtering and waiting at lights.
It was only about £50 more than a full face one and came with an inside visor for the sun so that was why I went for my mine over the full face. It's not that much bigger or heavier now days as well.
To be fair, I rarely have the flip up when riding, even at low speeds. However, if you are stuck in traffic on a hot day it is lovely have up when filtering and waiting at lights.
It was only about £50 more than a full face one and came with an inside visor for the sun so that was why I went for my mine over the full face. It's not that much bigger or heavier now days as well.
spareparts said:
* I wear one for commuting as it's easy to put on/off when wearing glasses.
I'm starting to think I probably wear one because you do! I now wear the same gloves and I'll be getting the same Dainese textiles before the winter. One thing is for certain though I wont be getting a GS anytime soon. - Visor built in - perfect for my West-East commute in the morning into the sun, and my East-WEst commute home into the sun.
- Flip up convenient when getting petrol.
- Good for touring when at border crossings.
- Great built in intercom system.
- Very quiet.
Andy XRV said:
spareparts said:
* I wear one for commuting as it's easy to put on/off when wearing glasses.
I'm starting to think I probably wear one because you do! I now wear the same gloves and I'll be getting the same Dainese textiles before the winter. One thing is for certain though I wont be getting a GS anytime soon. - Visor built in - perfect for my West-East commute in the morning into the sun, and my East-WEst commute home into the sun.
- Flip up convenient when getting petrol.
- Good for touring when at border crossings.
- Great built in intercom system.
- Very quiet.
spareparts said:
Andy XRV said:
spareparts said:
* I wear one for commuting as it's easy to put on/off when wearing glasses.
I'm starting to think I probably wear one because you do! I now wear the same gloves and I'll be getting the same Dainese textiles before the winter. One thing is for certain though I wont be getting a GS anytime soon. - Visor built in - perfect for my West-East commute in the morning into the sun, and my East-WEst commute home into the sun.
- Flip up convenient when getting petrol.
- Good for touring when at border crossings.
- Great built in intercom system.
- Very quiet.
julian64 said:
black-k1 said:
I half agree with your "steering with your knees" comments. You can definitely steer without your hands on the bars by shifting your weight. Using your knees can help you shift your weight, but ... it’s not your knees that are doing the steering though; it’s the movement of your weight.
The bike drops into the corner anyway because you’re counter steering, if subconsciously.
Sort of agree. My bike drops into a corner because I've shoved my half tonne bun off the side of the bike, and the bike has nowher to go other than fall to that side. sometimes even shoving my shoulders to one side is enough to do it. So probably not the knees.The bike drops into the corner anyway because you’re counter steering, if subconsciously.
I remember as a kid on my chopper cycling everywhere with no hands on the bars.
Whether you choose to accept the fundamental laws of physics doesn't mean they cease to exist. And whether you realise that to take a turn requires the initial counter steering input is academic, as it does.
Just because it's something you do which you do not understand how you do it doesn't mean it's not something you don't need to do.
I could set up a very VERY simple exercise to demonstrate it but I suspect you're so entrenched in you ignorance even the bleedin' obvious wouldn't convince you.
Steering with your knees.... priceless
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