Self posting video gets him Nine months inside
Discussion
I think what you are both missing is the obvious way of reconciling those data.
Speed, absent some other contributing factor, is not a common cause of accidents. But bad and dangerous driving very often involves, as a contributing element, speed that is excessive for the conditions. In fact, it's probably a factor about 90 per cent of the time.
'Loss of control' will be quite rare if the car is being driven by someone competent and at a sensible speed.
The gross misuse of statistics would be to suggest that driving over the speed limit but otherwise well and sensibly causes a lot of accidents. That simply isn't true. But it gets said a lot by the police and government. If you strip out things like the driver not having a licence or being pissed or driving too fast for the conditions, speed alone is pretty rarely a problem.
The clip of that poor biker hitting the car is probably a fairly rare example of pure speed being quite a big contributing factor. At 60, he would have been seen. Even if he wasn't, he would have been able to stop and/or miss the car. Speed played a big part there.
Speed, absent some other contributing factor, is not a common cause of accidents. But bad and dangerous driving very often involves, as a contributing element, speed that is excessive for the conditions. In fact, it's probably a factor about 90 per cent of the time.
'Loss of control' will be quite rare if the car is being driven by someone competent and at a sensible speed.
The gross misuse of statistics would be to suggest that driving over the speed limit but otherwise well and sensibly causes a lot of accidents. That simply isn't true. But it gets said a lot by the police and government. If you strip out things like the driver not having a licence or being pissed or driving too fast for the conditions, speed alone is pretty rarely a problem.
The clip of that poor biker hitting the car is probably a fairly rare example of pure speed being quite a big contributing factor. At 60, he would have been seen. Even if he wasn't, he would have been able to stop and/or miss the car. Speed played a big part there.
Esceptico said:
Mad Jock said:
I think you'll find that inappropriate speed is not a key or determining factor in a majority of accidents. According to the DfT tables for 2013, Inappropriate Speed (Travelling too fast for conditions)accounts for 5% of all accidents involving a motorcycle, and Exceeding the speed limit is another 5%. They are 9th and 10th in the list of causes of motorcycle accidents, in other words, there are another 8 more causes with a higher percentage.
Feel free to comment by all means, but if you are going to quote statistics, I would suggest that you do so correctly.
I am having trouble looking up data on my phone.Feel free to comment by all means, but if you are going to quote statistics, I would suggest that you do so correctly.
Can you list the top ten (would be helpful if you could also include definitions).
Motorcycle 2013
Contributory factor attributed to vehicle | Number | Per cent |
---|---|---|
Road environment contributed | 2253 | 13.361404341122 |
Poor or defective road surface | 244 | 1.44704068319298 |
Deposit on road (eg. oil, mud, chippings) | 467 | 2.76954097971771 |
Slippery road (due to weather) | 1253 | 7.43090973787214 |
Inadequate or masked signs or road markings | 26 | 0.154192859684498 |
Defective traffic signals | 11 | 0.065235440635749 |
Traffic calming (eg. road humps, chicane) | 21 | 0.124540386668248 |
Temporary road layout (eg. contraflow) | 17 | 0.100818408255248 |
Road layout (eg. bend, hill, narrow road) | 314 | 1.86217530542047 |
Animal or object in carriageway | 178 | 1.05562803937848 |
Slippery inspection cover or road marking | 22 | 0.130470881271498 |
Vehicle defects | 181 | 1.07341952318823 |
Tyres illegal, defective or under inflated | 67 | 0.397343138417744 |
Defective lights or indicators | 25 | 0.148262365081248 |
Defective brakes | 72 | 0.426995611433994 |
Defective steering or suspension | 26 | 0.154192859684498 |
Defective or missing mirrors | 1 | 0.00593049460324991 |
Overloaded or poorly loaded vehicle or trailer | 8 | 0.0474439568259993 |
Injudicious action | 2497 | 14.808445024315 |
Disobeyed automatic traffic signal | 107 | 0.63456292254774 |
Disobeyed 'Give Way' or 'Stop' sign or markings | 105 | 0.622701933341241 |
Disobeyed double white lines | 35 | 0.207567311113747 |
Disobeyed pedestrian crossing facility | 29 | 0.171984343494247 |
Illegal turn or direction of travel | 55 | 0.326177203178745 |
Exceeding speed limit | 812 | 4.81556161783893 |
Travelling too fast for conditions | 890 | 5.27814019689242 |
Following too close | 711 | 4.21658166291069 |
Vehicle travelling along pavement | 21 | 0.124540386668248 |
Cyclist entering road from pavement | 2 | 0.0118609892064998 |
Driver/Rider error or reaction | 7652 | 45.3801447040683 |
Junction overshoot | 116 | 0.68793737397699 |
Junction restart (moving off at junction) | 60 | 0.355829676194995 |
Poor turn or manoeuvre | 1603 | 9.50658284900961 |
Failed to signal or misleading signal | 66 | 0.391412643814494 |
Driver/Rider failed to look properly | 2682 | 15.9055865259163 |
Driver/Rider failed to judge other person’s path or speed | 2244 | 13.3080298896928 |
Too close to cyclist, horse rider or pedestrian | 73 | 0.432926106037244 |
Sudden braking | 1099 | 6.51761356897165 |
Swerved | 436 | 2.58569564701696 |
Loss of control | 2646 | 15.6920887201993 |
Impairment or distraction | 550 | 3.26177203178745 |
Driver/Rider impaired by alcohol | 285 | 1.69019096192622 |
Driver/Rider impaired by drugs (illicit or medicinal) | 36 | 0.213497805716997 |
Fatigue | 38 | 0.225358794923497 |
Uncorrected, defective eyesight | 3 | 0.0177914838097497 |
Driver/Rider illness or disability, mental or physical | 46 | 0.272802751749496 |
Not displaying lights at night or in poor visibility | 38 | 0.225358794923497 |
Rider wearing dark clothing | 31 | 0.183845332700747 |
Driver using mobile phone | 4 | 0.0237219784129996 |
Distraction in vehicle | 22 | 0.130470881271498 |
Distraction outside vehicle | 82 | 0.486300557466493 |
Behaviour or inexperience | 3292 | 19.5231882338987 |
Aggressive driving | 376 | 2.22986597082197 |
Driver/Rider careless, reckless or in a hurry | 1630 | 9.66670620329736 |
Driver/Rider nervous, uncertain or panic | 167 | 0.990392598742735 |
Driving too slow for conditions or slow veh (eg tractor) | 8 | 0.0474439568259993 |
Learner or inexperienced driver/rider | 1439 | 8.53398173407662 |
Inexperience of driving on the left | 32 | 0.189775827303997 |
Unfamiliar with model of vehicle | 192 | 1.13865496382398 |
Vision affected by external factors | 878 | 5.20697426165342 |
Stationary or parked vehicle(s) | 460 | 2.72802751749496 |
Vegetation | 15 | 0.0889574190487487 |
Road layout (eg. bend, winding road, hill crest) | 128 | 0.759103309215989 |
Buildings, road signs, street furniture | 12 | 0.0711659352389989 |
Dazzling headlights | 12 | 0.0711659352389989 |
Dazzling sun | 136 | 0.806547266041988 |
Rain, sleet, snow, or fog | 119 | 0.705728857786739 |
Spray from other vehicles | 8 | 0.0474439568259993 |
Visor or windscreen dirty, scratched or frosted etc. | 12 | 0.0711659352389989 |
Vehicle blind spot | 15 | 0.0889574190487487 |
Pedestrian only (casualty or uninjured) | 3 | 0.0177914838097497 |
Crossing road masked by stationary or parked vehicle | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian failed to look properly | 2 | 0.0118609892064998 |
Pedestrian failed to judge vehicle’s path or speed | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian wrong use of pedestrian crossing facility | 0 | 0 |
Dangerous action in carriageway (eg. playing) | 1 | 0.00593049460324991 |
Pedestrian impaired by alcohol | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian impaired by drugs (illicit or medicinal) | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian careless, reckless or in a hurry | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian wearing dark clothing at night | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian disability or illness, mental or physical | 0 | 0 |
Special codes= | 298 | 1.76728739176847 |
Stolen vehicle | 88 | 0.521883525085992 |
Vehicle in course of crime | 42 | 0.249080773336496 |
Emergency vehicle on a call | 12 | 0.0711659352389989 |
Vehicle door opened or closed negligently | 0 | 0 |
Other | 171 | 1.01411457715573 |
BobSaunders said:
Stickyfinger said:
moanthebairns said:
When I said slow I meant thick.
An example of stunning intellect, well done and a great contribution, child.I genuinely don't know if he's being serious or if he is wired up wrong.
D
Can you list the top ten (would be helpful if you could also include definitions).As requested:
|| Pedestrian impaired by alcohol || 0 ||
As I suspected. A majority of "causes" on this list are really inappropriate speed in disguise, in my view. Slippery roads? If you are bolt upright the road can be pretty slippery and you can stay butter side up.
I had an accident when I came off on diesel. Was it because of the diesel? Yes and no. I saw diesel on the inside of the roundabout and moved into the inside to avoid it. But I should have realised it could also be on the exit of the roundabout too and should have slowed down more and made sure I was upright - so when I exited a bit lent over (inappropriately fast for the circumstances) I came off.
When I dropped a 996 on a roundabout it was because the road was cold - but then I shouldn't have been trying to get my knee down in November!
black-k1 said:
Esceptico said:
Mad Jock said:
I think you'll find that inappropriate speed is not a key or determining factor in a majority of accidents. According to the DfT tables for 2013, Inappropriate Speed (Travelling too fast for conditions)accounts for 5% of all accidents involving a motorcycle, and Exceeding the speed limit is another 5%. They are 9th and 10th in the list of causes of motorcycle accidents, in other words, there are another 8 more causes with a higher percentage.
Feel free to comment by all means, but if you are going to quote statistics, I would suggest that you do so correctly.
I am having trouble looking up data on my phone.Feel free to comment by all means, but if you are going to quote statistics, I would suggest that you do so correctly.
Can you list the top ten (would be helpful if you could also include definitions).
Motorcycle 2013
Contributory factor attributed to vehicle | Number | Per cent |
---|---|---|
Road environment contributed | 2253 | 13.361404341122 |
Poor or defective road surface | 244 | 1.44704068319298 |
Deposit on road (eg. oil, mud, chippings) | 467 | 2.76954097971771 |
Slippery road (due to weather) | 1253 | 7.43090973787214 |
Inadequate or masked signs or road markings | 26 | 0.154192859684498 |
Defective traffic signals | 11 | 0.065235440635749 |
Traffic calming (eg. road humps, chicane) | 21 | 0.124540386668248 |
Temporary road layout (eg. contraflow) | 17 | 0.100818408255248 |
Road layout (eg. bend, hill, narrow road) | 314 | 1.86217530542047 |
Animal or object in carriageway | 178 | 1.05562803937848 |
Slippery inspection cover or road marking | 22 | 0.130470881271498 |
Vehicle defects | 181 | 1.07341952318823 |
Tyres illegal, defective or under inflated | 67 | 0.397343138417744 |
Defective lights or indicators | 25 | 0.148262365081248 |
Defective brakes | 72 | 0.426995611433994 |
Defective steering or suspension | 26 | 0.154192859684498 |
Defective or missing mirrors | 1 | 0.00593049460324991 |
Overloaded or poorly loaded vehicle or trailer | 8 | 0.0474439568259993 |
Injudicious action | 2497 | 14.808445024315 |
Disobeyed automatic traffic signal | 107 | 0.63456292254774 |
Disobeyed 'Give Way' or 'Stop' sign or markings | 105 | 0.622701933341241 |
Disobeyed double white lines | 35 | 0.207567311113747 |
Disobeyed pedestrian crossing facility | 29 | 0.171984343494247 |
Illegal turn or direction of travel | 55 | 0.326177203178745 |
Exceeding speed limit | 812 | 4.81556161783893 |
Travelling too fast for conditions | 890 | 5.27814019689242 |
Following too close | 711 | 4.21658166291069 |
Vehicle travelling along pavement | 21 | 0.124540386668248 |
Cyclist entering road from pavement | 2 | 0.0118609892064998 |
Driver/Rider error or reaction | 7652 | 45.3801447040683 |
Junction overshoot | 116 | 0.68793737397699 |
Junction restart (moving off at junction) | 60 | 0.355829676194995 |
Poor turn or manoeuvre | 1603 | 9.50658284900961 |
Failed to signal or misleading signal | 66 | 0.391412643814494 |
Driver/Rider failed to look properly | 2682 | 15.9055865259163 |
Driver/Rider failed to judge other person’s path or speed | 2244 | 13.3080298896928 |
Too close to cyclist, horse rider or pedestrian | 73 | 0.432926106037244 |
Sudden braking | 1099 | 6.51761356897165 |
Swerved | 436 | 2.58569564701696 |
Loss of control | 2646 | 15.6920887201993 |
Impairment or distraction | 550 | 3.26177203178745 |
Driver/Rider impaired by alcohol | 285 | 1.69019096192622 |
Driver/Rider impaired by drugs (illicit or medicinal) | 36 | 0.213497805716997 |
Fatigue | 38 | 0.225358794923497 |
Uncorrected, defective eyesight | 3 | 0.0177914838097497 |
Driver/Rider illness or disability, mental or physical | 46 | 0.272802751749496 |
Not displaying lights at night or in poor visibility | 38 | 0.225358794923497 |
Rider wearing dark clothing | 31 | 0.183845332700747 |
Driver using mobile phone | 4 | 0.0237219784129996 |
Distraction in vehicle | 22 | 0.130470881271498 |
Distraction outside vehicle | 82 | 0.486300557466493 |
Behaviour or inexperience | 3292 | 19.5231882338987 |
Aggressive driving | 376 | 2.22986597082197 |
Driver/Rider careless, reckless or in a hurry | 1630 | 9.66670620329736 |
Driver/Rider nervous, uncertain or panic | 167 | 0.990392598742735 |
Driving too slow for conditions or slow veh (eg tractor) | 8 | 0.0474439568259993 |
Learner or inexperienced driver/rider | 1439 | 8.53398173407662 |
Inexperience of driving on the left | 32 | 0.189775827303997 |
Unfamiliar with model of vehicle | 192 | 1.13865496382398 |
Vision affected by external factors | 878 | 5.20697426165342 |
Stationary or parked vehicle(s) | 460 | 2.72802751749496 |
Vegetation | 15 | 0.0889574190487487 |
Road layout (eg. bend, winding road, hill crest) | 128 | 0.759103309215989 |
Buildings, road signs, street furniture | 12 | 0.0711659352389989 |
Dazzling headlights | 12 | 0.0711659352389989 |
Dazzling sun | 136 | 0.806547266041988 |
Rain, sleet, snow, or fog | 119 | 0.705728857786739 |
Spray from other vehicles | 8 | 0.0474439568259993 |
Visor or windscreen dirty, scratched or frosted etc. | 12 | 0.0711659352389989 |
Vehicle blind spot | 15 | 0.0889574190487487 |
Pedestrian only (casualty or uninjured) | 3 | 0.0177914838097497 |
Crossing road masked by stationary or parked vehicle | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian failed to look properly | 2 | 0.0118609892064998 |
Pedestrian failed to judge vehicle’s path or speed | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian wrong use of pedestrian crossing facility | 0 | 0 |
Dangerous action in carriageway (eg. playing) | 1 | 0.00593049460324991 |
|| Pedestrian impaired by alcohol || 0 ||
Pedestrian impaired by drugs (illicit or medicinal) | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian careless, reckless or in a hurry | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian wearing dark clothing at night | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian disability or illness, mental or physical | 0 | 0 |
Special codes= | 298 | 1.76728739176847 |
---|---|---|
Stolen vehicle | 88 | 0.521883525085992 |
Vehicle in course of crime | 42 | 0.249080773336496 |
Emergency vehicle on a call | 12 | 0.0711659352389989 |
Vehicle door opened or closed negligently | 0 | 0 |
Other | 171 | 1.01411457715573 |
I had an accident when I came off on diesel. Was it because of the diesel? Yes and no. I saw diesel on the inside of the roundabout and moved into the inside to avoid it. But I should have realised it could also be on the exit of the roundabout too and should have slowed down more and made sure I was upright - so when I exited a bit lent over (inappropriately fast for the circumstances) I came off.
When I dropped a 996 on a roundabout it was because the road was cold - but then I shouldn't have been trying to get my knee down in November!
black-k1 said:
As requested:
You'll need more accurate percentages than thatMotorcycle 2013
Contributory factor attributed to vehicle | Number | Per cent |
---|---|---|
Road environment contributed | 2253 | 13.361404341122 |
Poor or defective road surface | 244 | 1.44704068319298 |
Deposit on road (eg. oil, mud, chippings) | 467 | 2.76954097971771 |
Slippery road (due to weather) | 1253 | 7.43090973787214 |
Inadequate or masked signs or road markings | 26 | 0.154192859684498 |
Defective traffic signals | 11 | 0.065235440635749 |
Traffic calming (eg. road humps, chicane) | 21 | 0.124540386668248 |
Temporary road layout (eg. contraflow) | 17 | 0.100818408255248 |
Road layout (eg. bend, hill, narrow road) | 314 | 1.86217530542047 |
Animal or object in carriageway | 178 | 1.05562803937848 |
Slippery inspection cover or road marking | 22 | 0.130470881271498 |
Vehicle defects | 181 | 1.07341952318823 |
Tyres illegal, defective or under inflated | 67 | 0.397343138417744 |
Defective lights or indicators | 25 | 0.148262365081248 |
Defective brakes | 72 | 0.426995611433994 |
Defective steering or suspension | 26 | 0.154192859684498 |
Defective or missing mirrors | 1 | 0.00593049460324991 |
Overloaded or poorly loaded vehicle or trailer | 8 | 0.0474439568259993 |
Injudicious action | 2497 | 14.808445024315 |
Disobeyed automatic traffic signal | 107 | 0.63456292254774 |
Disobeyed 'Give Way' or 'Stop' sign or markings | 105 | 0.622701933341241 |
Disobeyed double white lines | 35 | 0.207567311113747 |
Disobeyed pedestrian crossing facility | 29 | 0.171984343494247 |
Illegal turn or direction of travel | 55 | 0.326177203178745 |
Exceeding speed limit | 812 | 4.81556161783893 |
Travelling too fast for conditions | 890 | 5.27814019689242 |
Following too close | 711 | 4.21658166291069 |
Vehicle travelling along pavement | 21 | 0.124540386668248 |
Cyclist entering road from pavement | 2 | 0.0118609892064998 |
Driver/Rider error or reaction | 7652 | 45.3801447040683 |
Junction overshoot | 116 | 0.68793737397699 |
Junction restart (moving off at junction) | 60 | 0.355829676194995 |
Poor turn or manoeuvre | 1603 | 9.50658284900961 |
Failed to signal or misleading signal | 66 | 0.391412643814494 |
Driver/Rider failed to look properly | 2682 | 15.9055865259163 |
Driver/Rider failed to judge other person’s path or speed | 2244 | 13.3080298896928 |
Too close to cyclist, horse rider or pedestrian | 73 | 0.432926106037244 |
Sudden braking | 1099 | 6.51761356897165 |
Swerved | 436 | 2.58569564701696 |
Loss of control | 2646 | 15.6920887201993 |
Impairment or distraction | 550 | 3.26177203178745 |
Driver/Rider impaired by alcohol | 285 | 1.69019096192622 |
Driver/Rider impaired by drugs (illicit or medicinal) | 36 | 0.213497805716997 |
Fatigue | 38 | 0.225358794923497 |
Uncorrected, defective eyesight | 3 | 0.0177914838097497 |
Driver/Rider illness or disability, mental or physical | 46 | 0.272802751749496 |
Not displaying lights at night or in poor visibility | 38 | 0.225358794923497 |
Rider wearing dark clothing | 31 | 0.183845332700747 |
Driver using mobile phone | 4 | 0.0237219784129996 |
Distraction in vehicle | 22 | 0.130470881271498 |
Distraction outside vehicle | 82 | 0.486300557466493 |
Behaviour or inexperience | 3292 | 19.5231882338987 |
Aggressive driving | 376 | 2.22986597082197 |
Driver/Rider careless, reckless or in a hurry | 1630 | 9.66670620329736 |
Driver/Rider nervous, uncertain or panic | 167 | 0.990392598742735 |
Driving too slow for conditions or slow veh (eg tractor) | 8 | 0.0474439568259993 |
Learner or inexperienced driver/rider | 1439 | 8.53398173407662 |
Inexperience of driving on the left | 32 | 0.189775827303997 |
Unfamiliar with model of vehicle | 192 | 1.13865496382398 |
Vision affected by external factors | 878 | 5.20697426165342 |
Stationary or parked vehicle(s) | 460 | 2.72802751749496 |
Vegetation | 15 | 0.0889574190487487 |
Road layout (eg. bend, winding road, hill crest) | 128 | 0.759103309215989 |
Buildings, road signs, street furniture | 12 | 0.0711659352389989 |
Dazzling headlights | 12 | 0.0711659352389989 |
Dazzling sun | 136 | 0.806547266041988 |
Rain, sleet, snow, or fog | 119 | 0.705728857786739 |
Spray from other vehicles | 8 | 0.0474439568259993 |
Visor or windscreen dirty, scratched or frosted etc. | 12 | 0.0711659352389989 |
Vehicle blind spot | 15 | 0.0889574190487487 |
Pedestrian only (casualty or uninjured) | 3 | 0.0177914838097497 |
Crossing road masked by stationary or parked vehicle | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian failed to look properly | 2 | 0.0118609892064998 |
Pedestrian failed to judge vehicle’s path or speed | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian wrong use of pedestrian crossing facility | 0 | 0 |
Dangerous action in carriageway (eg. playing) | 1 | 0.00593049460324991 |
Pedestrian impaired by alcohol | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian impaired by drugs (illicit or medicinal) | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian careless, reckless or in a hurry | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian wearing dark clothing at night | 0 | 0 |
Pedestrian disability or illness, mental or physical | 0 | 0 |
Special codes= | 298 | 1.76728739176847 |
Stolen vehicle | 88 | 0.521883525085992 |
Vehicle in course of crime | 42 | 0.249080773336496 |
Emergency vehicle on a call | 12 | 0.0711659352389989 |
Vehicle door opened or closed negligently | 0 | 0 |
Other | 171 | 1.01411457715573 |
Esceptico said:
As I suspected. A majority of "causes" on this list are really inappropriate speed in disguise, in my view. Slippery roads? If you are bolt upright the road can be pretty slippery and you can stay butter side up.
I had an accident when I came off on diesel. Was it because of the diesel? Yes and no. I saw diesel on the inside of the roundabout and moved into the inside to avoid it. But I should have realised it could also be on the exit of the roundabout too and should have slowed down more and made sure I was upright - so when I exited a bit lent over (inappropriately fast for the circumstances) I came off.
When I dropped a 996 on a roundabout it was because the road was cold - but then I shouldn't have been trying to get my knee down in November!
Or your just well, a bit st I had an accident when I came off on diesel. Was it because of the diesel? Yes and no. I saw diesel on the inside of the roundabout and moved into the inside to avoid it. But I should have realised it could also be on the exit of the roundabout too and should have slowed down more and made sure I was upright - so when I exited a bit lent over (inappropriately fast for the circumstances) I came off.
When I dropped a 996 on a roundabout it was because the road was cold - but then I shouldn't have been trying to get my knee down in November!
Esceptico said:
As I suspected. A majority of "causes" on this list are really inappropriate speed in disguise, in my view. Slippery roads? If you are bolt upright the road can be pretty slippery and you can stay butter side up.
I had an accident when I came off on diesel. Was it because of the diesel? Yes and no. I saw diesel on the inside of the roundabout and moved into the inside to avoid it. But I should have realised it could also be on the exit of the roundabout too and should have slowed down more and made sure I was upright - so when I exited a bit lent over (inappropriately fast for the circumstances) I came off.
When I dropped a 996 on a roundabout it was because the road was cold - but then I shouldn't have been trying to get my knee down in November!
All accidents involve speed as without speed we wouldn't move and there would be no accidents!I had an accident when I came off on diesel. Was it because of the diesel? Yes and no. I saw diesel on the inside of the roundabout and moved into the inside to avoid it. But I should have realised it could also be on the exit of the roundabout too and should have slowed down more and made sure I was upright - so when I exited a bit lent over (inappropriately fast for the circumstances) I came off.
When I dropped a 996 on a roundabout it was because the road was cold - but then I shouldn't have been trying to get my knee down in November!
Just because the statistics don't back up your position is no reason to say they are wrong! The contributing factors were as judged at the scene by a police officer. They are able to note up to 6 different contributing factors so if they considered excessive/inappropriate speed to be one of them, I'm sure they'd note it.
Esceptico said:
As I suspected. A majority of "causes" on this list are really inappropriate speed in disguise, in my view.
Perhaps until you can justify your view a little better, it would be prudent to rely on the professional judgement of police and allied professionals who are experts in supplying and handling this data. Exceeding speed limit
Travelling too fast for conditions
and how can these be split ?....it could be argued either way dependent on the definition of speeding/conditions.
If for example a car/bike/truck is traveling at 70mph on a snow covered motorway, is that not a 100% speed factor when it slides off into a truck doing 30mph ?
Is it "Speeding" in a (non-book) way ?, its hardly a surprise oil patch is it.
Travelling too fast for conditions
and how can these be split ?....it could be argued either way dependent on the definition of speeding/conditions.
If for example a car/bike/truck is traveling at 70mph on a snow covered motorway, is that not a 100% speed factor when it slides off into a truck doing 30mph ?
Is it "Speeding" in a (non-book) way ?, its hardly a surprise oil patch is it.
Prof Prolapse said:
Esceptico said:
As I suspected. A majority of "causes" on this list are really inappropriate speed in disguise, in my view.
Perhaps until you can justify your view a little better, it would be prudent to rely on the professional judgement of police and allied professionals who are experts in supplying and handling this data. Accidents are almost always caused by human error in my view.
On the list is "sudden braking". What does that mean? Brakes don't apply themselves so more likely the rider tried to lose speed quickly and crashed. But why did they need to lose speed? Isn't that the real, underlying cause?
Esceptico said:
I am looking at the underlying cause not the surface ones.
Accidents are almost always caused by human error in my view.
On the list is "sudden braking". What does that mean? Brakes don't apply themselves so more likely the rider tried to lose speed quickly and crashed. But why did they need to lose speed? Isn't that the real, underlying cause?
People panic brake and crash when they could just ride round the corner at the original (or quicker) speed. The real underlying cause could be that they're lacking skill, so require more training, or bigger balls Accidents are almost always caused by human error in my view.
On the list is "sudden braking". What does that mean? Brakes don't apply themselves so more likely the rider tried to lose speed quickly and crashed. But why did they need to lose speed? Isn't that the real, underlying cause?
Esceptico said:
I am looking at the underlying cause not the surface ones.
Accidents are almost always caused by human error in my view.
On the list is "sudden braking". What does that mean? Brakes don't apply themselves so more likely the rider tried to lose speed quickly and crashed. But why did they need to lose speed? Isn't that the real, underlying cause?
We only have "surface" though. Root cause isn't possible and they all appear to be subjective assessments. Speed is perhaps the most overused one contrary to reality, which is the only point I think is being made here.Accidents are almost always caused by human error in my view.
On the list is "sudden braking". What does that mean? Brakes don't apply themselves so more likely the rider tried to lose speed quickly and crashed. But why did they need to lose speed? Isn't that the real, underlying cause?
I also think by definition all accidents are human error aren't they?
You'd need to ask the rozzers how they define. I agree it sounds subjective. The level of accuracy you ask for isn't possible, but thankfully you have a large sample size from fairly consistent group of assessors, so its not without value in context. Most importantly, this is the only data we have. To say you'd instead dismiss the data in favour of your own very limited (again in context) experience, makes no sense to me.
LoonR1 said:
People panic brake and crash when they could just ride round the corner at the original (or quicker) speed. The real underlying cause could be that they're lacking skill, so require more training, or bigger balls
Sorry for banging on about inappropriate speed but...doesn't .inappropriate mean the wrong speed for the conditions...and isn't the skill and experience of the rider a key condition? Do people crash because they misjudge a corner and go in too slow?If we all stayed still, no speed, we'd have far fewer accidents. Of course speed is involved in some way in accidents. But Daily Mail type hysteria about speed, as if it's the only factor, isn't constructive. Yes this guy rode like an idiot, but I'm equally wary of 90 year old Doris in her Nissan Micra who is falling into the verge or hitting the kerb every so often and has no idea that I'm there, or Mr Audi who is king of the road and tailgating me when I'm already making progress, or the car swerving about because some dimwit who can't read a map just got told to turn by their satnav and blindly obeyed without looking... Loads of dangerous driving goes under the radar and could cause accidents, but presumably those types aren't in jail because they've not stuck footage of it on the internet. In my mind, driving when incapable (for whatever reason), tailgating crazily close, using a phone, programing a satnav are deliberate actions that could cause an accident, just as much as speeding is. Where do you draw the line? We might need a lot more prisons if this guy's case sets the precedent.
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