Police bike riders why?

[CorvetteConvert]

Fleegle said:

CorvetteConvert said:

Reardy Mister said:

CorvetteConvert said:

All figures circa.

Police BMW R1100. 100 bhp. 250 kgs with all the gear.
Yamaha R1 1000. 190 bhp. 180 kgs.

400 bhp per tonne.
1000+ bhp per tonne.

Yes, the rider affects things a little, but the noddy bike really hasn't a hope in hell if the sports bike rider isn't a complete clown!

Haha!

What the fk? Please stay, you're hilarious.

You obviously don't ride a bike like mine then!
PS the above is factual, what you have offered is just childish.
But if you'd like to tell me what is incorrect please try!
Oh wait, you are excused. I just looked at your garage. A poxy 325i and NO motorcycle.
Explains everything. Take a look at my garage, ya tool then tell me i don't understand!
Bwahahahahaha. Don't give up the day job, you won't make it as a comedian.

Edited by CorvetteConvert on Monday 12th October 08:41

I drive a Citroen. Your post is as irrelevant as mine

You drive a Citroen, that's fine. But the above guy argued with fact. Figures which were accurate and explained why the copper in that situation would NEVER catch the R1 UNLESS he was a clown like i said.

[CorvetteConvert]

Let's say it in simpler/different terms.
Police rider, maybe faster on a bike, maybe not, than the guy on his R1 or Panigale who has in all likelihood had many smaller bikes before entering the litre class. (I did 15 years of club racing as it happens).
Ok, it MAY be that the copper can get along lanes and round roundabouts quicker than the R1 guy ON EQUAL BIKES. Maybe.
When you then look at the average full dresser police bike and the average litre class sports bike, convert it to cars and you have a car cop in a Focus 2.0 diesel and a guy in his Nissan GTR. Regardless of his training the cop ain't gonna catch the GTR is he?

[WinstonWolf]

CorvetteConvert said:

Let's say it in simpler/different terms.
Police rider, maybe faster on a bike, maybe not, than the guy on his R1 or Panigale who has in all likelihood had many smaller bikes before entering the litre class. (I did 15 years of club racing as it happens).
Ok, it MAY be that the copper can get along lanes and round roundabouts quicker than the R1 guy ON EQUAL BIKES. Maybe.
When you then look at the average full dresser police bike and the average litre class sports bike, convert it to cars and you have a car cop in a Focus 2.0 diesel and a guy in his Nissan GTR. Regardless of his training the cop ain't gonna catch the GTR is he?

Nope, a similar comparison is a 335D BMW. A two litre focus is akin to a 500 parallel twin.

[Fleegle]

CorvetteConvert said:

When you then look at the average full dresser police bike and the average litre class sports bike, convert it to cars and you have a car cop in a Focus 2.0 diesel and a guy in his Nissan GTR. Regardless of his training the cop ain't gonna catch the GTR is he?

But it's not as clear cut as that, is it? What about traffic? It may be that a good driver in his Datsun can shake off the donut eater in his white or silver hatchback in a rural area, but he's going to be fked down Tooting High Street at 5 in the evening. Same applies to reverting back to bikes, a good rider 'could' shake off the tubby copper on his tubby bike down the lanes/open areas, but ultimately it will be down to skill in urban areas

[CorvetteConvert]

WinstonWolf said:

CorvetteConvert said:

Let's say it in simpler/different terms.
Police rider, maybe faster on a bike, maybe not, than the guy on his R1 or Panigale who has in all likelihood had many smaller bikes before entering the litre class. (I did 15 years of club racing as it happens).
Ok, it MAY be that the copper can get along lanes and round roundabouts quicker than the R1 guy ON EQUAL BIKES. Maybe.
When you then look at the average full dresser police bike and the average litre class sports bike, convert it to cars and you have a car cop in a Focus 2.0 diesel and a guy in his Nissan GTR. Regardless of his training the cop ain't gonna catch the GTR is he?

Nope, a similar comparison is a 335D BMW. A two litre focus is akin to a 500 parallel twin.

Bikes are 400 bhp per tonne v 1100 bhp per tonne.
Almost 3 times as good.

Focus TD 150 bhp/1500 kgs
GTR 542 bhp/1700 kgs.

I was pretty close first time!
:-)

[CorvetteConvert]

Fleegle of course there will be road situations to think off, but i will stop riding the moment i think i am incapable of outrunning a cop on a frigging full dresser.
Yes, for my sins i have got rid of them countless times in the past, but not recently as they used to have to actually stop you and now they don't. Not saying it was the right thing to do or clever/brave but my old GSXR1100 many times escaped their clutches and was parked up cooling down long before they reached our village.

[Reardy Mister]

CorvetteConvert said:

WinstonWolf said:

CorvetteConvert said:

Let's say it in simpler/different terms.
Police rider, maybe faster on a bike, maybe not, than the guy on his R1 or Panigale who has in all likelihood had many smaller bikes before entering the litre class. (I did 15 years of club racing as it happens).
Ok, it MAY be that the copper can get along lanes and round roundabouts quicker than the R1 guy ON EQUAL BIKES. Maybe.
When you then look at the average full dresser police bike and the average litre class sports bike, convert it to cars and you have a car cop in a Focus 2.0 diesel and a guy in his Nissan GTR. Regardless of his training the cop ain't gonna catch the GTR is he?

Nope, a similar comparison is a 335D BMW. A two litre focus is akin to a 500 parallel twin.

Bikes are 400 bhp per tonne v 1100 bhp per tonne.
Almost 3 times as good.

Focus TD 150 bhp/1500 kgs
GTR 542 bhp/1700 kgs.

I was pretty close first time!
:-)

Your original post vastly oversimplified it, as though bhp/tonne was going to close the thread. It was arse.

[WinstonWolf]

Close? You're not even in the same ballpark...

The bottom line is the police rider will generally be travelling as fast as the conditions allow, to lose them your only option is to take extra risks. Statistically this will catch up with you sooner or later.

Spoken with a biker's limp.

[Reardy Mister]

WinstonWolf said:

Close? You're not even in the same ballpark...

The bottom line is the police rider will generally be travelling as fast as the conditions allow, to lose them your only option is to take extra risks. Statistically this will catch up with you sooner or later.

Spoken with a biker's limp.

With the benefit of code 3 warning equipment.

Which takes me back to the OP. I had seen that episode before and as before, noted that Mr unmarked plod gave chase on the VFR and was doing 90 in a 40 zone, with no blues and twos. I can swallow a fully marked vehicle making lots of noise, making progress regardless of speed limits in the pursuit of evil doers, but I don't see how they justify double the limit in a built up area when the vehicle isn't marked and noisy. It cant all be "special training".

Edited by Reardy Mister on Monday 12th October 16:06

[LoonR1]

CorvetteConvert said:

Agree with your point.
It all depends what you were both riding! Police are not hard to shake off if they are on an 1100cc flat twin and you or i are on a 1299 Panigale.
Some won't get it though! They will think the copper must always be quicker! Even on a moped!

I'm not a fan of plod given my recent interactions, but a half decent rider on a slow bike could catch up with plenty of riders on a Panigale or even faster IL4s. Few roads in this country allow for arrow straight max velocity runs for very long.

[Prof Prolapse]

Reardy Mister said:

With the benefit of code 3 warning equipment.

Which takes me back to the OP. I had seen that episode before and as before, noted that Mr unmarked plod gave chase on the VFR and was doing 90 in a 40 zone, with no blues and twos. I can swallow a fully marked vehicle making lots of noise, making progress regardless of speed limits in the pursuit of evil doers, but I don't see how they justify double the limit in a built up area when the vehicle isn't marked and noisy. It cant all be "special training".

My understanding is the law does not consider training of any description as mitigating circumstances for speeding. It does however permit the police to do so where necessary to carry out their duties. I imagine the same goes for giving someone a good macing and not being done for assault.

The duty in this case being waiting for scum like you to exceed 100mph so he get you banned to protect us.

[Silver993tt]

CorvetteConvert said:

Fleegle of course there will be road situations to think off, but i will stop riding the moment i think i am incapable of outrunning a cop on a frigging full dresser.
Yes, for my sins i have got rid of them countless times in the past, but not recently as they used to have to actually stop you and now they don't. Not saying it was the right thing to do or clever/brave but my old GSXR1100 many times escaped their clutches and was parked up cooling down long before they reached our village.

Someone who is clearly in fantasy land.

[Technomad]

LoonR1 said:

I'm not a fan of plod given my recent interactions, but a half decent rider on a slow bike could catch up with plenty of riders on a Panigale or even faster IL4s. Few roads in this country allow for arrow straight max velocity runs for very long.

+1. The Plod are like the rest of us: some of them have a broader spread of experience than others: I've seen both good and unbrilliant police ability on track and - by a few - some pretty poor riding on the road, the latter mainly from those who ride rigidly to the book rather than using a little imagination to anticipate the possible. Those are becoming fewer as the remaining old school ride-by-numbers guys retire. What thinking police riders do have for the road is a level of roadcraft that lets them make best use of the conditions as safely as is possible - they're the ones who will keep up with and catch most road riders on what many would regard as contemptibly slow machinery.

[hebegb]

There can not nor shall there be any right , wrong conclusion or even a vaguely tangible point to this thread...

However , it manifests a really bizarre belief from some seemingly in awe of any biking traffic plod with a few years service and I definitely tend to side with Corvettey that they are nothing special - known two, one talked himself up as the best thing since sliced bread this side of a Superstock rostrum , had the whole gamut of experience, many years traffic , cars then bikes, accident investigation , knew everything about everything physics could offer , angle this, vector that , overview here there and everywhere ...... Sold his bike and stopped riding after his second biggish crash playing keepy uppy with the group he rode with which I joined once or twice and these were at best decently competent riders - not fast in any shape or form.....

A few of us with varied alternative experiences and possible optional coaching strategies tried to help this fat fker help himself to move his planted arse from the square of the seat whilst trying to break roundabout lap records on his knee and riding off the edge of the tyre........but was so possessed of his own inherent skills , failed to realise he had at that point plateaued and could no longer learn anything new that may possibly help him and secondly , ultimately , save his life.....

The second , Is Gary Baldwin ( of RapidTraining) and he and his team are very good indeed - not superheroes , eminently fallible just like the rest of us ....but fast and safe everywhere ....

My tuppence , bit worthless really .

Somebody tell me the result when this one comes to an end - who wins ?........oops , forgot......

[Technomad]

CorvetteConvert said:

Let's say it in simpler/different terms.
Police rider, maybe faster on a bike, maybe not, than the guy on his R1 or Panigale who has in all likelihood had many smaller bikes before entering the litre class. (I did 15 years of club racing as it happens).
Ok, it MAY be that the copper can get along lanes and round roundabouts quicker than the R1 guy ON EQUAL BIKES. Maybe.
When you then look at the average full dresser police bike and the average litre class sports bike, convert it to cars and you have a car cop in a Focus 2.0 diesel and a guy in his Nissan GTR. Regardless of his training the cop ain't gonna catch the GTR is he?

I'd imagine that any competent police rider reading this will just smile. Given that the limits on road riding are almost always set by the environment, not the bike, the standard of training and competence is the biggest single factor in the ability to get from A to B, and riding time isn't necessarily a good indicator of competence. I'm not Plod (never have been) but I've instructed on a wide range of schemes, including Bikesafe. One of the best comments I had was from an R1 rider who'd basically been told by his SO to go on a course or she was going to take an angle grinder to his bike. He arrived full of st and the attitude of "I've got 35 years experience, so what the fk can you teach me?". After half a day on the road, he turned to me and said, "I was wrong. I realise I've got one year of experience, repeated 35 times - I've not been learning". Good man.

BTW, comparisons between slow and fast cars don't carry over to slow and fast bikes, for a range of reasons.

[Reardy Mister]

Technomad said:

CorvetteConvert said:

Let's say it in simpler/different terms.
Police rider, maybe faster on a bike, maybe not, than the guy on his R1 or Panigale who has in all likelihood had many smaller bikes before entering the litre class. (I did 15 years of club racing as it happens).
Ok, it MAY be that the copper can get along lanes and round roundabouts quicker than the R1 guy ON EQUAL BIKES. Maybe.
When you then look at the average full dresser police bike and the average litre class sports bike, convert it to cars and you have a car cop in a Focus 2.0 diesel and a guy in his Nissan GTR. Regardless of his training the cop ain't gonna catch the GTR is he?

I'd imagine that any competent police rider reading this will just smile. Given that the limits on road riding are almost always set by the environment, not the bike.

This.

[hebegb]

Technomad said:

CorvetteConvert said:

Let's say it in simpler/different terms.
Police rider, maybe faster on a bike, maybe not, than the guy on his R1 or Panigale who has in all likelihood had many smaller bikes before entering the litre class. (I did 15 years of club racing as it happens).
Ok, it MAY be that the copper can get along lanes and round roundabouts quicker than the R1 guy ON EQUAL BIKES. Maybe.
When you then look at the average full dresser police bike and the average litre class sports bike, convert it to cars and you have a car cop in a Focus 2.0 diesel and a guy in his Nissan GTR. Regardless of his training the cop ain't gonna catch the GTR is he?

I'd imagine that any competent police rider reading this will just smile. Given that the limits on road riding are almost always set by the environment, not the bike, the standard of training and competence is the biggest single factor in the ability to get from A to B, and riding time isn't necessarily a good indicator of competence. I'm not Plod (never have been) but I've instructed on a wide range of schemes, including Bikesafe. One of the best comments I had was from an R1 rider who'd basically been told by his SO to go on a course or she was going to take an angle grinder to his bike. He arrived full of st and the attitude of "I've got 35 years experience, so what the fk can you teach me?". After half a day on the road, he turned to me and said, "I was wrong. I realise I've got one year of experience, repeated 35 times - I've not been learning". Good man.

BTW, comparisons between slow and fast cars don't carry over to slow and fast bikes, for a range of reasons.

Crikey ! Spooky timing ....a bit of similar theme to my view - but bloody good on the individual for holding his hands up ( pardon that one ) and facing facts - very refreshing and the only way any of us can learn anything - by firstly being receptive to input ....

[creampuff]

I think the only power advantage of a sports bike in road conditions is they accelerate a lot faster. Your terminal speed is limited by the road, so there is no advantage there. You will make up a second here or there over plod with brutal acceleration. That and sports bike riders tend to do late, hard braking (i.e. you are at a high speed for longer before a bend) compared to plod riders for whom not showing a brake light can be a matter of pride. This will also give you an extra second now and then.

[LoonR1]

Technomad said:

LoonR1 said:

I'm not a fan of plod given my recent interactions, but a half decent rider on a slow bike could catch up with plenty of riders on a Panigale or even faster IL4s. Few roads in this country allow for arrow straight max velocity runs for very long.

+1. The Plod are like the rest of us: some of them have a broader spread of experience than others: I've seen both good and unbrilliant police ability on track and - by a few - some pretty poor riding on the road, the latter mainly from those who ride rigidly to the book rather than using a little imagination to anticipate the possible. Those are becoming fewer as the remaining old school ride-by-numbers guys retire. What thinking police riders do have for the road is a level of roadcraft that lets them make best use of the conditions as safely as is possible - they're the ones who will keep up with and catch most road riders on what many would regard as contemptibly slow machinery.

Just to be clear, I'm not agreeing with anyone who is even vaguely positive about the police.

[Technomad]

hebegb said:

The second , Is Gary Baldwin ( of RapidTraining) and he and his team are very good indeed - not superheroes , eminently fallible just like the rest of us ....but fast and safe everywhere ....

Exactly. "eminently fallible" is where it's at (cf my other comments of the fallibility of plod riders and drivers). Gary and the rest of the RT folks are very good indeed - the epitomy of thinking riders but (and I'm sure they'd agree with me), WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES - no-one is superhuman. The trick is to try to make sure you fail safe when you do cock it up. I live adjacent to a famous biking road and I'm continually astonished by the number of riders who appear to utterly lack the self-awareness needed to have a bit of a plan when riding, to the point where I usually stay off the road at weekends.