And today's commuting highlight is...
Discussion
I think she initially admitted blame (bit blurred in my mind tbh) but she backtracked on that and was trying to get me to admit to at least partial liability, which I didn't and wouldn't do. Be interesting to see what the witness p.o.v was, although since she stopped and handed me her business card immediately I'm guessing she was "on my side" so to speak.
I'm genuinely not clear, I'm beating myself up a bit because although she was the one to pull out on me, I do think I should have seen her earlier. I guess she was looking the other way to make sure there was nothing coming from her left.
The speed of 15-20mph was pre-impact, I got on the brakes heavily so it was probably not much more than walking pace by the time I went over.
I'm genuinely not clear, I'm beating myself up a bit because although she was the one to pull out on me, I do think I should have seen her earlier. I guess she was looking the other way to make sure there was nothing coming from her left.
The speed of 15-20mph was pre-impact, I got on the brakes heavily so it was probably not much more than walking pace by the time I went over.
If you could see there was a car waiting that's a 100% situation where I'd expect someone to pull out. I tend to move over to the far left if I'm behind a car turning left onto a road to see if there's anything waiting and to allow them to see me. It's even worse if you're behind a van as you'll be completely out of sight no matter what bike you're on.
Today's highlights: getting blown.
And having to open my helmet vents for the first time in about 5 months!
Today's highlights: getting blown.
And having to open my helmet vents for the first time in about 5 months!
I saw something similar to this the other week.
Filtering traffic on a single lane road and a housing estate entrance to the left is blocked by a large van. I am following a scooter and I slow as my 'biker sixth sense' comes in and I figure that because there is a gap in traffic someone might be pulling out. So I slow and pull in behind a car. The scooter doesn't and ends up getting T-Boned by a lady in her Fiat 500 and pushed into the path of an oncoming skip truck. Luckily he isn't going fast so is able to stop before squashing the poor lad.
Another one I saw someone filtering in front of me was hit by a car pulling out of a street. Was scary to think about as he pulled in to let me past because I was filtering at a higher speed than him. I didn't take the opportunity as I wasn't in a particular rush. He then upped his speed which I feel a little bad for, maybe he was pressured by me? I was keeping a safe distance from him, 3-4 cars separate. A young girl no older than 18 pulled right out and hit him. Just straight out, nothing he could have done to avoid it. Just thinking about if I took the chance to overtake it could have been me knocked off.
Filtering traffic on a single lane road and a housing estate entrance to the left is blocked by a large van. I am following a scooter and I slow as my 'biker sixth sense' comes in and I figure that because there is a gap in traffic someone might be pulling out. So I slow and pull in behind a car. The scooter doesn't and ends up getting T-Boned by a lady in her Fiat 500 and pushed into the path of an oncoming skip truck. Luckily he isn't going fast so is able to stop before squashing the poor lad.
Another one I saw someone filtering in front of me was hit by a car pulling out of a street. Was scary to think about as he pulled in to let me past because I was filtering at a higher speed than him. I didn't take the opportunity as I wasn't in a particular rush. He then upped his speed which I feel a little bad for, maybe he was pressured by me? I was keeping a safe distance from him, 3-4 cars separate. A young girl no older than 18 pulled right out and hit him. Just straight out, nothing he could have done to avoid it. Just thinking about if I took the chance to overtake it could have been me knocked off.
I agree with Creampuff. Yes you COULD have left it until after the junction, and we should all do this as a matter of course - even though I'm sure all of us don't do that all the time. This is the practical perspective.
But from an insurance 'blame' perspective, my belief is that it's incumbent upon the car exiting a junction to edge out and make sure their actions don't put others at risk. Clearly what she did put you at risk; and it's debateable whether you're even 'overtaking' the car if it's in the process of exiting the road and you are in your carriageway.
Referring to a term that I hear Judge Judy make repeatedly "But from the fact that xxxxx then yyyy would not have happened".
It's certainly more reasonable to say "But from the fact that she pulled out into your path you would not have had the accident" than to say "But for the fact that you didn't see her drive into your path and slam on your brakes you wouldn't have had the accident".
As for partial blame - again you're already in your carriageway, she is moving into your carriageway.
My bet on the witness is that they saw the car make no effort to stop and check (which would support why it appeared to you to come out of nowhere; and why she initially admitted responsibility) and thus will support your case. You can call to check, I don't think there's a rule that you can't talk to witnesses.
But from an insurance 'blame' perspective, my belief is that it's incumbent upon the car exiting a junction to edge out and make sure their actions don't put others at risk. Clearly what she did put you at risk; and it's debateable whether you're even 'overtaking' the car if it's in the process of exiting the road and you are in your carriageway.
Referring to a term that I hear Judge Judy make repeatedly "But from the fact that xxxxx then yyyy would not have happened".
It's certainly more reasonable to say "But from the fact that she pulled out into your path you would not have had the accident" than to say "But for the fact that you didn't see her drive into your path and slam on your brakes you wouldn't have had the accident".
As for partial blame - again you're already in your carriageway, she is moving into your carriageway.
My bet on the witness is that they saw the car make no effort to stop and check (which would support why it appeared to you to come out of nowhere; and why she initially admitted responsibility) and thus will support your case. You can call to check, I don't think there's a rule that you can't talk to witnesses.
Edited by Angrybiker on Wednesday 22 February 15:39
Myles Peraua said:
I guess she was looking the other way to make sure there was nothing coming from her left.
Classic SMIDSY. Another quick glance to the right, & you're already obscured by her A pillar.....Regardless of fault speculation, no matter how hard one tries to mitigate this scenario, its almost bound to happen sooner or later. Hope OP's not too badly banged up!
Myles Peraua said:
I'm genuinely not clear, I'm beating myself up a bit because although she was the one to pull out on me, I do think I should have seen her earlier. I guess she was looking the other way to make sure there was nothing coming from her left.
From your description you said you went round the car and you saw it late. If you couldn't see her, she couldn't see you. It may not be your fault but you need to ride more defensively and put yourself in a position where they can see you in these types of situations. SMar said:
Myles Peraua said:
I'm genuinely not clear, I'm beating myself up a bit because although she was the one to pull out on me, I do think I should have seen her earlier. I guess she was looking the other way to make sure there was nothing coming from her left.
From your description you said you went round the car and you saw it late. If you couldn't see her, she couldn't see you. It may not be your fault but you need to ride more defensively and put yourself in a position where they can see you in these types of situations. I'm off the bike for the rest of the week 
Haven't been able to get the bike running right all week, finally thrown in the towel. Thanks for all the pointers on the other thread, got no idea what's causing the issue so have booked it into MH for Monday.
The cutting out problem has been getting progressively worse, from once last Friday to ~4 times each journey though this week culminating in 7 this evening, including a huge backfire on Moorgate, to be frank I'm surprised the armed police weren't called!
All the best in tomorrow's wind all!
Haven't been able to get the bike running right all week, finally thrown in the towel. Thanks for all the pointers on the other thread, got no idea what's causing the issue so have booked it into MH for Monday.
The cutting out problem has been getting progressively worse, from once last Friday to ~4 times each journey though this week culminating in 7 this evening, including a huge backfire on Moorgate, to be frank I'm surprised the armed police weren't called!
All the best in tomorrow's wind all!
Myles Peraua said:
Etc etc. I could see over the car in front of me which turned left; I just didn't see her coming.
I don't want to labour the point, but if you were just looking over the car, all she could see was your head, no bike, no headlamp. I've had people pull out on me when there's been no vehicle between me and them, so you have to give them the best opportunity to see you that you can.I was nearly in the reverse situation myself last week. I was at a junction turning right at 6.45 in the morning and it was still dark. Trying to pull out onto a busy A road. The only way pull out is to wait for a gap, and that doesn't happen that often in the mornings or go when a car is turning left into the road where I am. I nearly went in the same situation but didn't and there was a learner motorcycle hiding behind the turning car in the process of passing the turning vehicle. If he was 5 metres behind I would have seen him. I'm just glad I decided not to pull out. It certainly made me think more about my road positioning on my bike.
Glad your ok, good lesson to learn
Edited by SMar on Thursday 23 February 08:15
I have a really bad back so stayed in London last night instead of riding home. So had a nice walk to the office this morning.
Not looking forward to riding back to Bristol tonight! I hate riding in wind, the M4 corridor by Swindon is horrific on such a light bike. You can be blown across the lanes unexpectedly at any minute.
Not looking forward to riding back to Bristol tonight! I hate riding in wind, the M4 corridor by Swindon is horrific on such a light bike. You can be blown across the lanes unexpectedly at any minute.
It would have to be really bad to stop me riding - I'm on the tube today because of a social event after work though. 
I attempted to do my first bike test for my licence in October 1996 riding a 125 in a full on storm in Portsmouth/Southsea area of Hampshire. Heavy lashing rain and very strong wind right by the sea too- the riding school didn't mention anything and still let me 'rent' the bike to ride the 5 or so miles to the test centre by myself. I was literally riding at angles of what felt to me like between 20-30deg to keep the bike riding in a straight line the wind was that strong - had no proper waterproofs either at this early stage so was fully soaked through.
I got to the test centre perfectly only to be told by the examiner sorry mate test cancelled its not safe to ride in this and that I should have called first (the riding school should really have helped me here given the money I was paying them) - I retorted politely but bluntly I agree its not the best but I just rode here fine, to which he had no response. Was sent on my way to ride the same distance back again in the 'unsafe' weather and arrived fine.
I attempted to do my first bike test for my licence in October 1996 riding a 125 in a full on storm in Portsmouth/Southsea area of Hampshire. Heavy lashing rain and very strong wind right by the sea too- the riding school didn't mention anything and still let me 'rent' the bike to ride the 5 or so miles to the test centre by myself. I was literally riding at angles of what felt to me like between 20-30deg to keep the bike riding in a straight line the wind was that strong - had no proper waterproofs either at this early stage so was fully soaked through.
I got to the test centre perfectly only to be told by the examiner sorry mate test cancelled its not safe to ride in this and that I should have called first (the riding school should really have helped me here given the money I was paying them) - I retorted politely but bluntly I agree its not the best but I just rode here fine, to which he had no response. Was sent on my way to ride the same distance back again in the 'unsafe' weather and arrived fine.
Edited by sjtscott on Thursday 23 February 09:53
sjtscott said:
It would have to be really bad to stop me riding - I'm on the tube today because of a social event after work though.
I attempted to do my first bike test for my licence in October 1996 riding a 125 in a full on storm in Portsmouth/Southsea area of Hampshire. Heavy lashing rain and very strong wind right by the sea too- the riding school didn't mention anything and still let me 'rent' the bike to ride the 5 or so miles to the test centre by myself. I was literally riding at angles of what felt to me like between 20-30deg to keep the bike riding in a straight line the wind was that strong - had no proper waterproofs either at this early stage so was fully soaked through.
I got to the test centre perfectly only to be told by the examiner sorry mate test cancelled its not safe to ride in this and that I should have called first (the riding school should really have helped me here given the money I was paying them) - I retorted politely but bluntly I agree its not the best but I just rode here fine, to which he had no response. Was sent on my way to ride the same distance back again in the 'unsafe' weather and arrived fine.
You only have a duty of care to yourself which you chose to ignore. They have a duty of care to you and to the examiners which they chose to heed.I attempted to do my first bike test for my licence in October 1996 riding a 125 in a full on storm in Portsmouth/Southsea area of Hampshire. Heavy lashing rain and very strong wind right by the sea too- the riding school didn't mention anything and still let me 'rent' the bike to ride the 5 or so miles to the test centre by myself. I was literally riding at angles of what felt to me like between 20-30deg to keep the bike riding in a straight line the wind was that strong - had no proper waterproofs either at this early stage so was fully soaked through.
I got to the test centre perfectly only to be told by the examiner sorry mate test cancelled its not safe to ride in this and that I should have called first (the riding school should really have helped me here given the money I was paying them) - I retorted politely but bluntly I agree its not the best but I just rode here fine, to which he had no response. Was sent on my way to ride the same distance back again in the 'unsafe' weather and arrived fine.
Edited by sjtscott on Thursday 23 February 09:53
So my first front indicator switch lasted about 14 years, the next one about 4 months, the one after that about a year - I spotted it had given up last night, some WD40 has saved it for now. I'd happily pay more for an original quality one but it's hard to see any difference between ones costing £2 and £12 on ebay. I've taken a punt on a £10 one..
Similar tale with the centre stand spring.
I'm very happy with my 2002 Fazer but little things like this can become a pain.
Similar tale with the centre stand spring.
I'm very happy with my 2002 Fazer but little things like this can become a pain.
full_chat said:
So my first front indicator switch lasted about 14 years, the next one about 4 months, the one after that about a year - I spotted it had given up last night, some WD40 has saved it for now. I'd happily pay more for an original quality one but it's hard to see any difference between ones costing £2 and £12 on ebay. I've taken a punt on a £10 one..
Similar tale with the centre stand spring.
I'm very happy with my 2002 Fazer but little things like this can become a pain.
Can't you get one from the main dealer?Similar tale with the centre stand spring.
I'm very happy with my 2002 Fazer but little things like this can become a pain.
kiethton said:
full_chat said:
So my first front indicator switch lasted about 14 years, the next one about 4 months, the one after that about a year - I spotted it had given up last night, some WD40 has saved it for now. I'd happily pay more for an original quality one but it's hard to see any difference between ones costing £2 and £12 on ebay. I've taken a punt on a £10 one..
Similar tale with the centre stand spring.
I'm very happy with my 2002 Fazer but little things like this can become a pain.
Can't you get one from the main dealer?Similar tale with the centre stand spring.
I'm very happy with my 2002 Fazer but little things like this can become a pain.
supercommuter said:
I have a really bad back so stayed in London last night instead of riding home. So had a nice walk to the office this morning.
Not looking forward to riding back to Bristol tonight! I hate riding in wind, the M4 corridor by Swindon is horrific on such a light bike. You can be blown across the lanes unexpectedly at any minute.
Yeah, done that, that is really not top of the list of fun things. Not looking forward to riding back to Bristol tonight! I hate riding in wind, the M4 corridor by Swindon is horrific on such a light bike. You can be blown across the lanes unexpectedly at any minute.
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