And today's commuting highlight is...

[CAPP0]

Fleegle said:

Tribal Chestnut said:

In other news I got pulled over today heading down Park Lane, thought it was 40, but it's 30. 40 is only on the north-bound side.

One of those unpleasant moments where the lights go on and you slow down expecting them to pass, but they don't. End result was a telling off, so I can't complain.

Yeah, because South bound is so much more dangerous than the opposite side of the road

You couldn't make it up. WTF goes through the planners heads

Orchestrated to catch you out in the same way as the bus lanes

Related: my route home takes me through Deptford and up Blackheath Hill. Blackheath Hill goes from 2 lanes to 1 about halfway up, and there are double white solid lines on the outside of the 2-lane bit, only about 150 yards or so.

Not to be overtly pious but I always go between the two lanes of cars, because I've seen BiB watching double solids in the past. However, most evenings I am the only bike doing that and every other bike cuts over the double lines.

Last night, I did my usual, got round the bend to where the double whites end, and sure enough there's PC Plod standing there waiting to pick off the bikes who are over the line. But not just that; in a side road opposite him there were at least three, possibly 4, bike cops all standing around, presumably so that the spotter can point at the bikes and send them all to their fate in the side road.

I keep saying on here how I'm not a BiB-basher, but my sympathy for them is waning. I mean, ref the double lines, it's the bikes who are putting themselves on offer, they're really not doing any massive harm, albeit breaking the rules, but most bikers have a healthy sense of self-preservation and are just making a bit of progress, and will drop back in if there's something coming the other way. Surely it doesn't take Einstein to work out that there are much more important things to address. For example, instead of having 4 coppers hanging around for this, why don't the bike BiB have themselves a little rush-hour filtering session and pick off the phone tts? They'd meet their monthly ticket target in an hour. There are plenty of other options too. But no, let's go for the soft easy target.

[Wildfire]

supercommuter said:

I also do not know the difference

I'm in exactly the same position. This year my trusty HG kit will need replacing. it has never let water in, but is pretty tatty and fairly tight now. I'd like not to be soaked, but dry when I get in to work. I can't complain as the whole lot cost me £175 5 years ago and it saved me in a crash. The laminate thing looks to be the way forward. I definitely don't want the membrane stuff.

I was set on Rukka, but for the price of an Armaxis jacket I could get a Dane jacket and trousers.

The Dane kit looks good as it also has storm cuffs, which will save me struggling to squeeze my gloves under my sleeves.

[CAPP0]

supercommuter said:

SteelerSE said:

supercommuter said:

The cheaper Goretex kit doesn't always have the laminate shell, but instead a goretex lining. The kit still gets fking drenched but you don't.

Pay the extra and get a laminate shell. I am in the same position as you and I am going for the Dainese Cyclone with Laminate Goretex shell.

Fed up of pissing around sweating my bks off in my house with 19 layers on trying to then put a waterproof over the top.

That's my plan but no one seems to know the difference between two-layer laminate and three-layer laminate. Or is it all just marketing gimmickry?

I also do not know the difference

I'm not sure of any 3/4/x-layer products. My understanding is this:

"Cheap" (well, cheapER) Goretex has the outer lining of the garment, and inside that, loose, is a Goretex membrane. it's there the same as any other lining would be. The GTX membrane stops you getting wet, but the outer layer of the garment gets wet/soaked just the same as it would whether GTX was inside the garment or not. hence why you got home dry but your kit was still soaked the next morning.

The Goretex Pro stuff is laminated. The GTX membrane is attached (stuck, or woven in, not sure of the technique), so it is an actual integral part of the outer layer. There's no "loose" inner GTX membrane. This has the effect of making the outer garment fabric completely waterproof (and breathable) and any water just runs off, it never soaks in. hence, quick drying, no wind chill, no weight increase.

It's massively more expensive, and I don't know why, but having had both types, the comparison is akin to wearing waterproof kit vs wearing jeans and a cotton jacket. Night and day, and if you are going to ride any distance in the wet, it's a must-have. I think you're looking at £400-500 per item as a starting point though.

[kiethton]

CAPP0 said:

Related: my route home takes me through Deptford and up Blackheath Hill. Blackheath Hill goes from 2 lanes to 1 about halfway up, and there are double white solid lines on the outside of the 2-lane bit, only about 150 yards or so.

Not to be overtly pious but I always go between the two lanes of cars, because I've seen BiB watching double solids in the past. However, most evenings I am the only bike doing that and every other bike cuts over the double lines.

Last night, I did my usual, got round the bend to where the double whites end, and sure enough there's PC Plod standing there waiting to pick off the bikes who are over the line. But not just that; in a side road opposite him there were at least three, possibly 4, bike cops all standing around, presumably so that the spotter can point at the bikes and send them all to their fate in the side road.

I keep saying on here how I'm not a BiB-basher, but my sympathy for them is waning. I mean, ref the double lines, it's the bikes who are putting themselves on offer, they're really not doing any massive harm, albeit breaking the rules, but most bikers have a healthy sense of self-preservation and are just making a bit of progress, and will drop back in if there's something coming the other way. Surely it doesn't take Einstein to work out that there are much more important things to address. For example, instead of having 4 coppers hanging around for this, why don't the bike BiB have themselves a little rush-hour filtering session and pick off the phone tts? They'd meet their monthly ticket target in an hour. There are plenty of other options too. But no, let's go for the soft easy target.

But surely you're able to pass, crossing the line, if the traffic is stationary or moving at under 10 mph and there is space to do so

S 129

Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.

Edited by kiethton on Tuesday 21st March 12:00

[E36GUY]

Fleegle said:

Yeah, because South bound is so much more dangerous than the opposite side of the road

You couldn't make it up. WTF goes through the planners heads

Orchestrated to catch you out in the same way as the bus lanes

I didn't realise southbound was 30 either but would actually say this makes sense. Southbound has a bus lane as well as several side roads that have junctions with it thus the potential for traffic pulling out. Northbound has neither

[Dr Jekyll]

E36GUY said:

I didn't realise southbound was 30 either but would actually say this makes sense. Southbound has a bus lane as well as several side roads that have junctions with it thus the potential for traffic pulling out. Northbound has neither

From what I read. Years ago both directions were 30 but traffic northbound was doing 40/50 because 30 seemed ludicrous. Traffic engineers reckoned 40 was OK but any faster was pushing it and got the limit raised to 40. Traffic speeds promptly dropped a few MPH.

[CAPP0]

kiethton said:

CAPP0 said:

Related: my route home takes me through Deptford and up Blackheath Hill. Blackheath Hill goes from 2 lanes to 1 about halfway up, and there are double white solid lines on the outside of the 2-lane bit, only about 150 yards or so.

Not to be overtly pious but I always go between the two lanes of cars, because I've seen BiB watching double solids in the past. However, most evenings I am the only bike doing that and every other bike cuts over the double lines.

Last night, I did my usual, got round the bend to where the double whites end, and sure enough there's PC Plod standing there waiting to pick off the bikes who are over the line. But not just that; in a side road opposite him there were at least three, possibly 4, bike cops all standing around, presumably so that the spotter can point at the bikes and send them all to their fate in the side road.

I keep saying on here how I'm not a BiB-basher, but my sympathy for them is waning. I mean, ref the double lines, it's the bikes who are putting themselves on offer, they're really not doing any massive harm, albeit breaking the rules, but most bikers have a healthy sense of self-preservation and are just making a bit of progress, and will drop back in if there's something coming the other way. Surely it doesn't take Einstein to work out that there are much more important things to address. For example, instead of having 4 coppers hanging around for this, why don't the bike BiB have themselves a little rush-hour filtering session and pick off the phone tts? They'd meet their monthly ticket target in an hour. There are plenty of other options too. But no, let's go for the soft easy target.

But surely you're able to pass, crossing the line, if the traffic is stationary or moving at under 10 mph and there is space to do so

S 129

Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.

Edited by kiethton on Tuesday 21st March 12:00

I don't think slow-moving, or stopped in traffic, counts. That provision is for when someone has parked up, broken down, etc opposite some double whites, or for when you're turning right across them.

[paralla]

What is it with the youth of today unnecessarily revving a CVT scooter up and down? I wonder if they think it sounds good?

Yesterday afternoon a kid on a Vespa GTS (normally a good indication its been stolen)was making all sorts of bad lane choices and passing/being passed by me from Park Royal to Shepherds bush roundabout. Its part of my regular commute so I know which lanes move the fastest and where there's space at the front of traffic light queues so can make good progress through heavy traffic. You could see the kid was furious that I kept getting in front even though I was doing the speed limit and not doing anything risky, he on the other hand was making ever more desperate overtaking moves, I turned onto Kensington High street rather than do my normal route down a choked Earls Court Road as I didn't want to push him to make more bad choices. EC Road is a doddle if you know which side to be on and what the busses are doing, a total nightmare if you are unfamiliar.

[Dr Jekyll]

CAPP0 said:

I don't think slow-moving, or stopped in traffic, counts. That provision is for when someone has parked up, broken down, etc opposite some double whites, or for when you're turning right across them.

This has been done to death.

Slow moving traffic (unless horse bicycle or appropriately marked road maintenance vehicle) doesn't count.

But stationary is stationary. Obviously an individual copper may interpret things differently but that's what the law says.

Also of course it's whether the line closest to you is solid, or either if you're thinking of parking. Whether double or not isn't relevant.

[CAPP0]

Dr Jekyll said:

Obviously an individual copper may interpret things differently

if he's standing at the end of a run of double solid whites with the apparent sole intention of nicking transgressors, I imagine he probably might!

Anyway, on to this morning, and it was a big WIN for me, albeit probably at some other poor sod's expense.

I'd already decided not to do the New Cross/OKR route but to go Blackwall/Commercial Rd. As I came up the M20, the matrix signs said "A2 closed after A205" (the Eltham turn onto the South Circ). Sure enough, joined the A2/A102 at Kidbrooke and had a lovely clear run all the way down to the new fancy-chimney heat plant. Hopefully I stayed under the average speed radar!

[kiethton]

Early commute back for me, but rushing to the dentist

Overtake a dominoes moped on the OKR as t's struggling to shift, stop at the lights a bit further up...he then pulls around me to sit in the cycle box directly in front...blasting past at 14k rpm giving the finger was rather satisfying

[gareth_r]

Dr Jekyll said:

CAPP0 said:

I don't think slow-moving, or stopped in traffic, counts. That provision is for when someone has parked up, broken down, etc opposite some double whites, or for when you're turning right across them.

This has been done to death.

Slow moving traffic (unless horse bicycle or appropriately marked road maintenance vehicle) doesn't count.

But stationary is stationary. Obviously an individual copper may interpret things differently but that's what the law says.

Also of course it's whether the line closest to you is solid, or either if you're thinking of parking. Whether double or not isn't relevant.

It has, and if you cross a solid white line to pass a vehicle that is stationary in a traffic queue you will be breaking the law.

Feel free to get the ticket and fight it in court (or find the court case that proves that it's legal).

[Dr Jekyll]

gareth_r said:

It has, and if you cross a solid white line to pass a vehicle that is stationary in a traffic queue you will be breaking the law.

Feel free to get the ticket and fight it in court (or find the court case that proves that it's legal).

Find the law that says it's illegal.

[Simes205]

Summer commuters were out today.
Stupid manoeuvres and also holding my up!!!

[obscene]

Simes205 said:

Summer commuters were out today.
Stupid manoeuvres and also holding my up!!!

Noticed that this morning. Guy commuting on a 675 Daytona, GS sat behind him and me sat behind both of them filtering slowly.

[gareth_r]

Dr Jekyll said:

gareth_r said:

It has, and if you cross a solid white line to pass a vehicle that is stationary in a traffic queue you will be breaking the law.

Feel free to get the ticket and fight it in court (or find the court case that proves that it's legal).

Find the law that says it's illegal.

The one that says that, with certain exceptions, you must not cross a solid white line.

Regardless of what you believe, a vehicle in a queue of traffic is not considered by the police or the courts to be a "stationary vehicle" as far as the law is concerned, you cannot, legally, cross the white line to overtake it, and motorcyclists have ended up with a ticket for doing so.

What would you expect to happen if there was a large gap between two stationary vehicles in a traffic jam, and a car driver overtook the second vehicle, crossing a solid white line, and occupied the gap?

I know we've all done it, me occasionally, London commuters every day, but it's still an offence.

[TheInternet]

gareth_r said:

What would you expect to happen if there was a large gap between two stationary vehicles in a traffic jam, and a car driver overtook the second vehicle, crossing a solid white line, and occupied the gap?

I'd think 'You may cross the line ... provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle'.

But apparently the law is an ass.

[anonymous-user]

gareth_r said:

What would you expect to happen if there was a large gap between two stationary vehicles in a traffic jam, and a car driver overtook the second vehicle, crossing a solid white line, and occupied the gap?

If the gap's big enough to allow an overtake, then it's not a traffic jam, is it?

[gareth_r]

I'm assuming that the last two posts were attempts at humour, and not serious replies, so I'll laugh politely, and give up.

[308mate]

Shout out to the guy who parked his new RT in a dark section of a red zone on the dual carriageway approaching the lights at Lookers Land Rover going West. It was in the dark, , the only vehicle there, it was parked side on to the traffic and first car or bike that dinked left to go around someone in the right hand lane will surely have skittled it.